Salvia divinorum

[jynxxxedangel]

Does anyone else have concerns about friends who are smoking this goofy-ass shit?

I think it makes some people completely STUPID for about ten minutes. The way I have seen it effect a loved one of mine is not good. His personality has changed, and he has become quite irresponsible since he began using it heavily a couple of weeks ago. It seems as if he has lost a piece of himself on the other side. I don't think his spirit is strong enough to fight off whatever bad things can come back with him, or whatever bad things can steal his soul over there in the Dreamtime.

I think this stuff is definitely too strong of medicine for someone not initiated into shamanic ways, but that is just my opinion. I have used it twice under the direction of a Mescalero shaman, and it gave me strong visions-- even stronger than those of peyote.

The thought that just anyone over the age of 18 can buy it at a smoke shop is quite concerning to me..

I am interested in hearing your experiences, good and bad, with this herb.

[Rev.Reverence]

It lasts such a short time it is not worth using as an entertainment device..

..It is traditionally used for Shamanic vision quests...a divination tool..

.....it seemed to have the greatest effect when smoked in a dark room with one candle...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It is by far the strongest hallucinogen known to man. People smoke it to get the affect quickly. Traditionally, it's chewed and the affects come on slower and you go deeper.

Why did a Mescalero shaman use salvia? It's not part of thier tradition at all.

I saw a world made of tiny purple flowers with yellow centers. The different shades of purple giving everything definition and shape. Then, the world cracked in half at a 45 degree angle and the "upper" side slide down a bit. I only knew I had to shrink down and get away from that crack. I could see the people in the room, but they were made of flowers too. Tiny purple flowers. I could understand exactly what they were saying and could form responses. I could not remember how to say it. Like... I didn't know how to make my mouth work. I wanted to warn them about the crack. I was trapped, voiceless, and looking into doom.

I woke up.

I will never do it again.

[jynxxxedangel]

The gentleman who is my shaman is married to an Indios lady from the Oaxacan, who is also a shaman. That is why he uses Salvia medicine.

Salvia is tuff stuff. I will never use it again, either, and I am quite used to strong visions!!!!!

That's why it's amazing to me the younger generation is using it recreationally!

[Homicidalheathen]

I have smoked it 3x. After the first experience I didn't feel a need to do it again...it was very spiritual and intense.

Just didn't feel a need to...but I was presured at a shamanic journey group...the next 2x nothing.

The tincture? I thought I needed to go to the hospital and I am not kidding.

[Rev.Reverence]

The gentleman who is my shaman is married to an Indios lady from the Oaxacan, who is also a shaman. That is why he uses Salvia medicine.

Salvia is tuff stuff. I will never use it again, either, and I am quite used to strong visions!!!!!

That's why it's amazing to me the younger generation is using it recreationally!

Yeah...thus my words ^ up there advising proper usage...I'll add here...to use it as a plaything is an affront to the plants spirit & can cause troubles...much like "playing" with Taro...or a Wigiboard...or a table saw...NOT TOYS!

[Rev.Reverence]

I have smoked it 3x. After the first experience I didn't feel a need to do it again...it was very spiritual and intense.

Just didn't feel a need to...but I was presured at a shamanic journey group...the next 2x nothing.

The tincture? I thought I needed to go to the hospital and I am not kidding.

Pressure.....I don't like those people...you cannot hope to learn from a Journey unless your ready to go.

TINCTURE...WHERE?...I want!

[torn asunder]

i'd love to try it, since it's sstill technically legal & all...

[hunhee]

Question..

In order to have a heightened spiritual experience, why must one do drugs?

I'm not saying this to be offensive, I'm just VERY curious. If I experience something beyond awesome, I want to be in my right mind. I don't want to be able to ration it off as drug/chemically induced.

[Rev.Reverence]

Question..

In order to have a heightened spiritual experience, why must one do drugs?

I'm not saying this to be offensive, I'm just VERY curious. If I experience something beyond awesome, I want to be in my right mind. I don't want to be able to ration it off as drug/chemically induced.

1...you don't HAVE to do anything...there are MANY paths into the 'Doors of Perception'

2...We in the Shamanic Community include the Spirits of plants in the Community..they are our Friends and Allies..

3...it's WAY easier than sitting and doing yogic meditations and fasting for 3 days...

4...X,Heroin,Cocaine,LSD...these are DRUGS...Salvia is a naturally occurring herb...with slim to no toxicity..not like Datura.

I hope we can all appreciate your curiosity.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Drugs and herbs are not necessary to have an enlightened experience.....

Things like Salvia, will help people go one step further, under the proper conditions.....

!!!!!HALLUCINOGENICS ARE NOT FOR HAPPY FUN TIMES!!!!!

On the subject of worrying about kids doing this kind of thing:

Kids will do anything to get high.....I had friends who used to huff bathroom spray.....Nasty stuff.....

I do worry about the kids using any drugs for any purpose, that is how kids end up thinking they can fly and jump out of a windows and shiet like that.....

[jynxxxedangel]

These are EXACTLY the kinds of responses I was going for!!!

Thank you, people!!

I knew this would be an interesting topic, as I know there are a few practicing Shamans/root docs on the board, as well as seekers of curiousity.

It's nice to see so many different insights and opinions, this is what I LIVE for.

Maybe we should start an Herbal Medicines thread, Rev.?? I think it would be beneficial to the forum. If there is already one posted WAYYYY back there someplace, I will find and resurrect it.

[torn asunder]

george harrison (i believe) of the beatles put it this way (and i'm paraphrasing) - drugs, in essence, open a window that allows you to see into "another side" of things. it gives you a glimpse of where it is you're going. spiritual meditation, and the likes, are really the only things that will ever "open the door" to allow you to really enter that other realm.

in my words, drugs are like being given the strings to the window shade, allowing you to open and close them to see what's inside, but meditation is like being given the "master key", and will allow you entrance into any of the realms you wish to explore...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Here is a mild natural "drug". If you know what part to harvest and how to use it... Has a rather calming affect when you are otherwise tweaking out. It also seems to calm most intestinal problems.

[Oh_My_Goth]

These are EXACTLY the kinds of responses I was going for!!!

Thank you, people!!

I knew this would be an interesting topic, as I know there are a few practicing Shamans/root docs on the board, as well as seekers of curiousity.

It's nice to see so many different insights and opinions, this is what I LIVE for.

Maybe we should start an Herbal Medicines thread, Rev.?? I think it would be beneficial to the forum. If there is already one posted WAYYYY back there someplace, I will find and resurrect it.

I am in the process of studying to be an Herbalist.....

That would be a great topic, people need to be more aware of alternatives to 'DRUGS'.....

[jynxxxedangel]

Let's start the new thread, then..

Screw it if there already IS one!

There is too much combined knowledge here to let it all go to waste.

What should we title the new thread? Any suggestions?

[hunhee]

in my words, drugs are like being given the strings to the window shade, allowing you to open and close them to see what's inside, but meditation is like being given the "master key", and will allow you entrance into any of the realms you wish to explore...

OK, do these realms actually exist, or are they in your head? Or do you not care?

AND what do you see when you open these windows?

EDIT TO SAY: I have only ever done pot three times in my life, none of which I liked.

[torn asunder]

OK, do these realms actually exist, or are they in your head? Or do you not care?

does god really exist, or is he in your head!? it all depends on how you approach things, and what you believe...

AND what do you see when you open these windows?

i would think that entirely depends on what you expect to find, going into it. i can elaborate, but that might be better left to a phone convo...

EDIT TO SAY: I have only ever done pot three times in my life, none of which I liked.

one's reaction to things of this nature are quite often greatly influenced by the people/mood/vibe that's surrounding them when they try these things. i've seen both good and bad reactions, from the same person, to the same "extra-curricular", and it was all dependant on the intent going into it, and the mood/vibe of the people hangin 'round...

[Oh_My_Goth]

Let's start the new thread, then..

Screw it if there already IS one!

There is too much combined knowledge here to let it all go to waste.

What should we title the new thread? Any suggestions?

I am no good with topic titles.....

I will hit that thread up allot though, I am big on the natural thayng.....

[Oh_My_Goth]

EDIT TO SAY: I have only ever done pot three times in my life, none of which I liked.

Most people tend to try smoking marijuana under the wrong conditions, like say when they are at a party doing other things.....

I do not know that this is the case with you, but that happens allot.....

Also, marijuana, like any other 'drug' or herb, should not be consumed under improper conditions.....

It is all about 'Set / Setting / Doseage'.....That meaning: The 'Set' of your mind, The 'Setting' you are in,

and 'Doseage',the amount you consume.

[jynxxxedangel]

Anytime you try something your body is not used to, it's wise to have an experienced, SOBER person around to guide you through the changes in your perception.

It can be very overwhelming to find oneself in a room full of other out-of-control people, while under the influence of psychoactive substances!

As an experienced user of many natural substances, I can honestly say that every once in awhile I get hit with a batch of something that really rocks my socks off! o.0

The varying effects have nothing to do with how regularly I use it. Sometimes the plant's spirit is especially strong.

Our body chemistries tend to change from day to day, and this variation can be a considerable factor in how you will be affected at such particular times.

There really is no way to tell how, or how MUCH a substance will affect you, even if you use it regularly!

[Destroit]

I wouldn't say it's HORRIBLE...

When I did it basically my brains came out of my head and the entire room spun. I ran around in circles trying to catch up with it, until I realized I was in a box and really just sorta standing on the ceiling, and everytime I walked I was on a different plane of...well location. Almost think of David Bowie in the last real scene of Labyrinth where he's walking on the bottoms of the stairs and able to just go from the bottom to the top to the side, etc, except REALLY fast. Like...unspeakably fast.

Visually speaking it was the same room...just as if I was looking through a kaleidoscope that kept changing and changing. It was entertaining, surreal, but still entertaining.

My body, or motor skills, rather, was the most entertaining part about it. Basically my body was drunk but my mind was clear. My legs GAVE OUT, I couldn't even stand up straight, I kept stumbling like I was SHITFACED on alcohol, but wasn't. It's a REALLY weird sensation for your body to be totally uncontrolably drunk but your head to be pretty clear.

The part that SUCKED was that Raven didn't tell me about it's crack-like properties. Basically right after you come down, for like maybe two hours afterward, all you can think about is how much you want salvia. Literally...ALL I could think about was smoking more of it, as much as I could. Luckily we didn't have anymore. I sorta just wigged out the rest of the night, twitched a little, wasn't really in my mind. Right after smoking it, literally as I was coming down (you come down HARD, or at least I did), I actually was out of my mind so bad I accused him of holding more out on me and we got into a huge fight about it, even though I knew we smoked the whole bag. I was even trying to scrape random shit off the floor and table trying to smoke it because it was "salvia" and I told him he was being crazy until he assured me that I was indeed the one who was temporarily batshit insane.

After that crazy wicked ass drug I was happier than I'd ever been to smoke a regular joint, I'll say that much . We had to go buy some just so I'd leave Raven alone, he's all like "No, you're not getting anymore of that shit, we're going to get a bag of the regular stuff to shut you up..." Here I was thinking it was going to be tame since it's legal...but that shit was a BEAST.

[Destroit]

OK, do these realms actually exist, or are they in your head? Or do you not care?

AND what do you see when you open these windows?

EDIT TO SAY: I have only ever done pot three times in my life, none of which I liked.

You definately seem like the type that would get paranoid in the wrong situation, that's probably why. You should do it with friends you trust that are experienced veteran potheads and you'd probably fare better and relax on it.

[jynxxxedangel]

Aha! So my suspicions about my friend's possible addiction to Salvia may have some founding. Now I am doubly concerned.

You are the first person I have ever heard bring this disturbing "crack-like" side-effect to light, Cher. It did not affect me in this manner, but all people are different. Maybe some folks are predisposed to taking an intense liking to it.

I think I am going to sit him down and have a LONG discussion about this plant. I'm afraid either the amount of Salvia he uses will turn his brain into oatmeal, or he is going to brain himself on something falling-- due to his Salvia sea-legs.

[Destroit]

Aha! So my suspicions about my friend's possible addiction to Salvia may have some founding. Now I am doubly concerned.

You are the first person I have ever heard bring this disturbing "crack-like" side-effect to light, Cher. It did not affect me in this manner, but all people are different. Maybe some folks are predisposed to taking an intense liking to it.

I think I am going to sit him down and have a LONG discussion about this plant. I'm afraid either the amount of Salvia he uses will turn his brain into oatmeal, or he is going to brain himself on something falling-- due to his Salvia sea-legs.

Yeah, it was intense. Even when I used to be a massive pothead, I NEVER wanted a bag of gonja as much as I wanted more salvia that night. It was crazy. It took my mind maybe 2 hours to realize how silly I was thinking.

That's why we went out and bought "emergency pot", to help me come down off it Also, he figured going out and having me be social would help instead of just sitting in the house and thinking about it for the rest of the night.