What is so great about "religion"?

[Rev.Reverence]

Would you consider yourself "Enlightened" Rev?

At some moments more than others...but I have been a serious student of The Ways of Enlightenment for a great many years...

Where ever I go you know my soul

Will be Girdled in Righteousness

Whenever I roll you know I roll

On---l--y the Hollyest

The rhymes I sow you know they grow

Give ya' food from the Tree to feed your Consciousness

So what ever I know you know I know

It don't really amount to all that much

I would go on to state that Enlightenment is not a state of being...rather a Path one walks...

...when one has 'attained' something...that thing looses value...so it is better to 'collect' 'attainments' and keep looking deeper .. keep walking further...

As far as my students are concerned...I am enlightened...but as a teacher I am first a student.

[phee]

I personally have no ideas about being enlightened myself....

The more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know.

I have no interest in enlightening others.... that places me above them in some way.... this is a roll I don't feel comfortable in.

[Rev.Reverence]

I personally have no ideas about being enlightened myself....

The more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know.

I have no interest in enlightening others.... that places me above them in some way.... this is a roll I don't feel comfortable in.

I see it as a DUTY...not to force...but to show...and keep in mind that we are all Stars...compositionally.

If you have, or have seen the Light...you should be a 'Torch Bearer' or a 'Light House'...

[phee]

I see it as a DUTY...not to force...but to show...and keep in mind that we are all Stars...compositionally.

If you have, or have seen the Light...you should be a 'Torch Bearer' or a 'Light House'...

The difference is... and why I can' t do this.... from what I have seen, there is no "The Light" everyone has there own light, be it a candle, florencent, or a christmas light.

I have an issue with someone who feels this way.... because "The Light" they see sometimes results in killing lots and lots of people... and they also feel the same sense of duty.

I might stand up and show them "The Light" as I see it is my "Duty" might end up setting a lot of people on fire with it or them getting smashed on the rocks. I do appreciate education, knowledge... but one mans light is another mans forest fire.

[Rev.Reverence]

The difference is... and why I can' t do this.... from what I have seen, there is no "The Light" everyone has there own light, be it a candle, florencent, or a christmas light.

I have an issue with someone who feels this way.... because "The Light" they see sometimes results in killing lots and lots of people... and they also feel the same sense of duty.

I might stand up and show them "The Light" as I see it is my "Duty" might end up setting a lot of people on fire with it or them getting smashed on the rocks. I do appreciate education, knowledge... but one mans light is another mans forest fire.

As we are all Stars...every Star has it's own trajectory...if you go moving Stars around, what happens is disasterous.

I did not say that there are no pit falls...

I think you are more than you think you are.

Edit:

I often want to set people on fire also.

[phee]

Most attrocities that people carry out is with a sense of duty.... that word when it comes to spiritual matters and religion can be very dangerous.

[Rev.Reverence]

Most attrocities that people carry out is with a sense of duty.... that word when it comes to spiritual matters and religion can be very dangerous.

I think we can actually use the 'dirty' A-word...(all)...in stead of the ever-correct 'most'...

At least we can split the differance...saying "almost all".

Be it Duty from Relig./Spirit. reasons...or 'orders from a superior officer'...or the Duty of said officer to protect the people of the country...

[phee]

I think we can actually use the 'dirty' A-word...(all)...in stead of the ever-correct 'most'...

At least we can split the differance...saying "almost all".

Be it Duty from Relig./Spirit. reasons...or 'orders from a superior officer'...or the Duty of said officer to protect the people of the country...

Those may not be that different.... Bush for example claims that God told him to invade Iraq.

Most of the native americans were whiped out because of "destiny" (manifest destiny to be exact).... that was god telling people to rule North America.

[Rev.Reverence]

Those may not be that different.... Bush for example claims that God told him to invade Iraq.

Most of the native americans were whiped out because of "destiny" (manifest destiny to be exact).... that was god telling people to rule North America.

But there are things you nor I could do without that are directly linked to the same since of Duty...

Like the difference between killing (self-defense) and murder (a crime everywhere)

[phee]

But there are things you nor I could do without that are directly linked to the same since of Duty...

Like the difference between killing (self-defense) and murder (a crime everywhere)

Not everywhere

[Rev.Reverence]

Not everywhere

Most every where...I think it is one qualifier to be a civilized area.

[phee]

Most every where...I think it is one qualifier to be a civilized area.

Some contries that are considered civilized allow a husband to murder the wife under certain circumstances

[Rev.Reverence]

Some contries that are considered civilized allow a husband to murder the wife under certain circumstances

& in that instance...it is not murder..(not that I agree)

[sass_in_the_pants]

*pant, pant*

Am I late to the party?

*gets out pom-poms*

GOOOOO CATHOLICS!

Gimme a C!

Gimme an A!

Gimme a...T?

*hears crickets chirping*

No love for the Catholics, eh? (though I hear the uniform is quite popular)

Meh, no big, that just means more red velvet cake for me after Mass.

Why do I go?

I've got like a trillion reasons.

Personally I think Religion sucks.....

I am a spiritual person.....

I my experience people who 'claim' to be a certain Religion tend to not reflect that Religions basic structure.....

Eh, cut em some slack.

If people judged the merits of christiainity based on my actions, they would have a very sorry view on it. When a high jumper can't jump over the pole, you don't blame the pole, do you? Just because people are struggling to live up to a standard, doesn't make the standard flawed. It makes us flawed. But we already knew all of that. Everyone is at a different place in their spiritual life - some are farther away from God than others, and some THINK they are closer to God than others. We've all got our faults.

if they were here..now...they would tell us one thing

"guys...seriously....we need to hear more COWBELL!!"

I actually think that's IN Matthew 6:18. I'm pretty sure it says those exact words.

I feel the same way. It has always amazed me when people have tried to use a mirror to envision God but don't even think to use it to envision the Devil.

Rev.. what books do you have that not only have proof that a god exists... but proof that there is more than one of them?

Personally, I don't think that simple concepts like male and female can apply to something as all encompassing as a God.

I saw this art essay thing a while back called 'The Real Face of Jesus'. You know what he looks like in China? A Chinese guy. You know what he looks like in Africa? An African. You know what he looks like in France? French.

I actually think it's kind of sweet - how in art Jesus always looks like the people who are looking at the art. But I think that's appropriate, too. We're made in God's image, and Jesus is God, so...it would only make sense that Jesus looked like all of us. Now, of course, he didn't, in real life at least, but still, I'm rather charmed by the idea.

And I think you're right on the concepts of male and female not being applicable, but our language is limited, and we work with what we have, right?

I also kind of think Joan Rivers looks like the devil, but that's mean, so don't tell her I said that.

I was told I was EVIL by the preaching evangelist himself, for actually admitting I didn't "feel the Spirit of the Lord" at a tent revival-- in front of hundreds of people. My family and I were spurned by the entire community and congregation because of it. I was treated like a bastard by my family because of it for many years after. I lived through mental and physical torture for many years because of this incident.

Now, I am a true believer, because I have seen the lowest places of humanity, and yet absolute miracles have happened right before my eyes. No one can ever TELL me when I am supposed to feel something. The Mysteries have unraveled in their due time. So mote it be.

I went to my friend's church once, and everyone 'got the ghost' except for me, which seemed weird, cuz I was the ONLY white girl in the place, so you'd think I would be at least easy to spot, and there I was, no ghost, while everyone else was convulsing on the floor.

My feet could not take me out of that place fast enough.

And I couldn't agree with you more about miracles and when you're supposed to feel something. Mysteries unravel on THEIR schedule, not ours.

Either way - imo - religion has caused the most bloodshed on this planet and is the most abused thing that man (not some god) has created.

I have no use for it.

But do you blame that which is being abused for the abuse?

I was raised Lutheran and growing up untill I was 17 I went to church every Sunday even though a lot of shit had happend to me. I believed that even though I was extremely depressed and trying to kill myself that God was watching out for me. Even when my friend Heather died of a brain tumor when I was 14 I didn't question it.

I stopped believe in God the day my best friend killed himself. I was angry with God for letting it happen. Slowly through the years I've been getting my faith back, but I still question a lot. Especially now after my brother in law suicide. What kind of God would let someone who has two wonderful children that loved him so much shoot themselves in the head two days before Christmas?

Now I have faith, I have to otherwise I would go completely insane and ya'll would be visiting me in the state psych ward. I have to believe that things are going to be okay and that we're going to get through all of this. But I'm still pretty angry. I will go to church now on holidays or special occasions but really thats it.

I'm sorry about your friends' deaths and your brother in law's suicide. I am sure they are all deeply missed.

And your question is a fair one - it's beyond fair. It's probably THE most important question that people ask themselves - if this world was created by a benevolent God, why is there so much suffering?

I can't give you the words of comfort you need. I personally found alot of comfort in what Pope John Paul wrote on the subject. He was an orphan by the age of twenty. Many of his friends were murdered by the Nazis when they came to Poland, some for the crime of studying for the priesthood and some in concentration camps. In his later life, an assassin made an attempt on his life, and even later in his life, Parkinson's rendered him immobile and took his ability to speak.

But I've seen him, I saw him towards the end of his life, and he was a man of joy. And I thought, how could a man who had SO much reason to be angry, radiate happiness? And then I read his thoughts on the subject, and I understood.

His words are better than mine - I could do his thoughts no justice here. But there are others, too, who have written and spoken beautifully on the subject of human suffering. I hope you will listen to what they had to say, and I hope you find peace.

I think one should ask themselves: even if a dictatorship works for you, should dictatorship still be immoral simply for the sake of it being dictatorship?

A person who answers "yes" to this would then have a hard time justifying an obedience to even a benevolent god, (which is, in a sense, a former of dictator.)

How is God a dictator? If he's a dictator, that would suggest that I don't have a choice. And I certainly do, as a matter of fact, I am committing...two, no THREE, yes, definitely three sins RIGHT NOW. If he's a dictator to his will, he's not terribly good at it. I'm even quite fond of Him.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I actually think it's kind of sweet - how in art Jesus always looks like the people who are looking at the art. But I think that's appropriate, too. We're made in God's image, and Jesus is God, so...it would only make sense that Jesus looked like all of us. Now, of course, he didn't, in real life at least, but still, I'm rather charmed by the idea.

And I think you're right on the concepts of male and female not being applicable, but our language is limited, and we work with what we have, right?

I also kind of think Joan Rivers looks like the devil, but that's mean, so don't tell her I said that.

I think you took my mirror comments too literally. I was speaking to the whole concept that is God, not just his physical manifistation. Yet, I see where you are coming from and agree with you.

Though, I don't think that the Devil has done anything to deserve you insulting him like that.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

*pant, pant*

Am I late to the party?

*gets out pom-poms*

GOOOOO CATHOLICS!

Gimme a C!

Gimme an A!

Gimme a...T?

*hears crickets chirping*

No love for the Catholics, eh? (though I hear the uniform is quite popular)

Meh, no big, that just means more red velvet cake for me after Mass.

Why do I go?

I've got like a trillion reasons.

for me....if thats where your at...and it works for you...and i mean if you have TRUE FAITH....then hey...congrats.

Personally though, there are two other groups I know that are more full of themselves and judgemental then the Catholics..and thats the Mormons and the Witness's. And don't think this is coming from someone that doesn't know the loopholes and the expieriance...I was Catholic until I was 19...I was an altar boy AND a Lectur....did everything that a "good catholic boy" was supposed to do....and still got life to shyt on me...well...when your raised (I would normally say brain-washed, but I won't here) in a way that basically says "hey...if you follow ALL these rules...you'll be ok"..and then life comes by with a large door and hits you with it....it tends to change your priorities.

it was that...and a combination of the crap I kept seeing and hearing from the missionaries that made me leave the CC.

[Head Wreck]

if anyone wants to ask me on my beliefs i'm happy to talk.

i do not like to push them on people, or bring it up in public that often.

Wales allways has been a very puritanical bastion in britan and we have as many churches here as we have pubs in my town, being as its wales theres a pub on every corner near enough. we have a lot of judgmental people about ansd i'd rather not have the local witchunt around here bothering me.

needless to say i'm not a fan of jehova's witnesses calling, but its important to remember that whatever beliefs and practices a person has they are still a person, and should be treated with respect when politely informing them that your not interested in converting, but thanks for the insight while ushering them of the property before releasing a pack of rabbid sheep on them (its wales after all).

religeon is a way of understanding things in my eyes, and rather than have mysticism about it i try to find an explanation. what works logically in my mind may not be what works in yours, thats the differance i like. lets put a friendly book on who's right :D

[sass_in_the_pants]

did everything that a "good catholic boy" was supposed to do....and still got life to shyt on me...well...when your raised (I would normally say brain-washed, but I won't here) in a way that basically says "hey...if you follow ALL these rules...you'll be ok"..and then life comes by with a large door and hits you with it....it tends to change your priorities.

I'm not trying to be rude here - I am prefacing this because I think written this will come off sounding rude and I'm really really not trying to be snarky, but was being catholic supposed to keep life from shitting on you? I guess I don't understand the connection is all I'm saying.

I mean, Jesus not only followed all the rules, he WROTE the rules, and He ended up nailed to a cross.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I'm not trying to be rude here - I am prefacing this because I think written this will come off sounding rude and I'm really really not trying to be snarky, but was being catholic supposed to keep life from shitting on you? I guess I don't understand the connection is all I'm saying.

I mean, Jesus not only followed all the rules, he WROTE the rules, and He ended up nailed to a cross.

well...that is basically how it comes across when your younger...how many times you ever hear a Catholic adult take a child up to a crucifix (because of those of you that don't know...there is a differance betwen a crucifix and a cross) and go "see...even when your all good...shyt happens".

I'm just saying, that the mentality of it, for the younger crowd growing up in it..specially my generation...was that, as a Catholic, you were pretty much given the keys to the mansion, long as you kept up with your confessions.

oh...and technically...Jesus didn't write jack....all Jesus did was tell you stuff from the old testament in a different light.

[sass_in_the_pants]

well...that is basically how it comes across when your younger...how many times you ever hear a Catholic adult take a child up to a crucifix (because of those of you that don't know...there is a differance betwen a crucifix and a cross) and go "see...even when your all good...shyt happens".

I'm just saying, that the mentality of it, for the younger crowd growing up in it..specially my generation...was that, as a Catholic, you were pretty much given the keys to the mansion, long as you kept up with your confessions.

oh...and technically...Jesus didn't write jack....all Jesus did was tell you stuff from the old testament in a different light.

Sorry, I thought it ws clear I wasn't suggesting Jesus physically wrote the Bible. I will try to be clearer next time.

As far as what you get told growing up...I dunno, I guess I just figure your parents tell you things at the level they think you understand at the time. Seriously, it was only like TWO years ago that I figured out I am in fact NOT allergic to dogs, that's just what moms say to their kids so they'll stop perstering them for a puppy.

Does a twelve year old REALLY get the whole 'Body, blood, soul and divinity'? Eh, maybe the more clever ones, but I certainly didn't. So, they say 'That's Jesus in there' and leave it at that. And sometimes, they just leave it at that forever...I mean, people don't get their cathechesis furthered at all after early teen years, and that's just a shame. I mean, it's at THAT age that you are able to learn about the REALLY cool shit. But I imagine alot of parents and teachers figure 'I taught them how to ge a good person' and they don't really bother any further with the more interesting theology. It's a failing on the part of educators, to be sure, but I have found such richness and truth, I think it's such a shame to cast it all aside because people didn't pass on the knowledge that they should have (or who knows, maybe they didn't even have the knowledge themselves).