Those who can't do, teach? .

[pomba gira]

This is a spin-off from the "Things You Hate" thread. Someone said that they hated when childless people give parenting advice. Others felt that you don't have to be a biological parent to have valid ideas on parenting. Personally, I have to take the latter point of view. As a teacher I am very often called on to give parenting advice. When a parent comes to me for help dealing with an issue their child is having, I can't very well say "well, I can't really help you since I don't have kids of my own". They are looking to me for professional guidance, and it's my job to offer it. On the other hand, it is important for me to respect the parent's own experience, and the fact that they know their child as an individual better than I do. If I alienate the parent by acting like some know-it-all authority figure, I've done no good whatever.

I'm not suggesting that having professional training and experience dealing with children is the same as being a parent/caregiver 24-7. Of course there are things I will never know about parenting. But does that mean that my advice is invalid? Or what about a person who is childless and has no training, but is naturally skilled at "reading" interpersonal relations. Can that person share some useful observations and suggestions that might help a less- socially skilled parent interact more effectively with their child?

Do you have to have your own kids to give valid parenting advice? Or for that matter do you have to have direct personal experience with anything, in order to give advice or have an informed and valid opinion of it? For example, many people who are in treatment for addictions feel that they can only be helped by a counselor/therapist who has personal experience with addiction. Opinions? Thoughts? "Fuck off you arrogant bitch"s? Let's hear 'em.

[Homicidalheathen]

No you don't have too...but you deal with kids everyday and are sane and just in your thinking...

It depends on the person. You can't judge until you walk a mile in someones shoes...

The thing with the parentless....if your under 20 I prob won't take your advice as to heart and if your under 20 with no kid experience...not at all.

There are some bad parents out there who give advice as well then you see their kids and think oh your one to talk...they are fat, lazy...dirty...with bad manners but want to give advice? NOT

Its those people who honestly CAN'T STAND KIDS I mean, can't handle being around them for long...that piss me off when they want to give advice.

[TygerLili]

I don't think it's inappropriate for childless people to make a suggestion to parents on how to deal with their child, but that person should understand that the parent is not obligated to agree with or follow through with that advice. I will say that teachers, counselors, therapists and the like, who've both been educated to deal with children and have speant a reasonable amount of time actually doing their job, are more credible than your average Joe on the street or a just-out-of-college-know-it-all.

There's also a lot to be said for having a certain amount humility when approaching the situation, rather than stomping up and going "I know all about kids, you should do it my way because I know everything, blah, blah, blah..."

I probably could have worded that better, but I got very little sleep last night.

[Rev.Reverence]

This is a spin-off from the "Things You Hate" thread. Someone said that they hated when childless people give parenting advice. Others felt that you don't have to be a biological parent to have valid ideas on parenting. Personally, I have to take the latter point of view. As a teacher I am very often called on to give parenting advice. When a parent comes to me for help dealing with an issue their child is having, I can't very well say "well, I can't really help you since I don't have kids of my own". They are looking to me for professional guidance, and it's my job to offer it. On the other hand, it is important for me to respect the parent's own experience, and the fact that they know their child as an individual better than I do. If I alienate the parent by acting like some know-it-all authority figure, I've done no good whatever.

I'm not suggesting that having professional training and experience dealing with children is the same as being a parent/caregiver 24-7. Of course there are things I will never know about parenting. But does that mean that my advice is invalid? Or what about a person who is childless and has no training, but is naturally skilled at "reading" interpersonal relations. Can that person share some useful observations and suggestions that might help a less- socially skilled parent interact more effectively with their child?

Do you have to have your own kids to give valid parenting advice? Or for that matter do you have to have direct personal experience with anything, in order to give advice or have an informed and valid opinion of it? For example, many people who are in treatment for addictions feel that they can only be helped by a counselor/therapist who has personal experience with addiction. Opinions? Thoughts? "Fuck off you arrogant bitch"s? Let's hear 'em.

I'll start by siting an OLD proverb (I think it be from Africa)...

It takes a village to raise a child.

I often get advice from many people, (unsolicited advice {ew}), on ways to rear my child. Some of the most fucked up shit is recommended by either people with none, or a NEW MOM... They are annoying with their news articles that they want you to read. I'ld say as a TEACHER... you should really be capable of taking in things, remembering them, and in turn disseminating said things to the families that NEED that info.

I would go so far as to say that you may be more 'with it' than most parents, (& I only know you through posts.)

I think that the 'problem' unspoken in these situations is that people with no experience with kids need to shut up, because you can't talk and learn at the same time... ie. the formerly a gay man (star trek nerd computer programmer #1) whom is now a woman and telling me when I should give my kid a smack, we rarely use such options, & definately not on a kid that is cranky due to a long day. I almost smacked the tranny, 'cause she would not shut up about if you don't smack your kid they won't behave. SHIT...I thought they required therapy before they change peoples sexes.

[Rev.Reverence]

No you don't have too...but you deal with kids everyday and are sane and just in your thinking...

It depends on the person. You can't judge until you walk a mile in someones shoes...

The thing with the parentless....if your under 20 I prob won't take your advice as to heart and if your under 20 with no kid experience...not at all.

There are some bad parents out there who give advice as well then you see their kids and think oh your one to talk...they are fat, lazy...dirty...with bad manners but want to give advice? NOT

Its those people who honestly CAN'T STAND KIDS I mean, can't handle being around them for long...that piss me off when they want to give advice.

I could not have said this part better... I am glad I did stop to see if there were any responses yet.

[Msterbeau]

First... I think it should be stated that being a parent doesn't automatically make you a good one. It take work, patience, discipline, love, empathy, etc. Your brain has to be engaged. You have to read, and ask questions and sometimes try stuff that goes against what you really feel is the "right" way to do things. Children have a way of proving our ideas incorrect.

Second, I stand by my statement about having children. There is a certain bond that you will never quite get until they come from your blood and genes. Maybe if you adapt at a child at infancy... When they come into your life, from day one, and there's no giving them back, there's a mental shift that happens. YOU are now responsible for this life.

Third, I wouldn't necessarily invalidate a statement about parenting because someone didn't have their own, but I would take it with a bigger grain of salt.

Forth. I do respect the opinions of experts who have done years of schooling/training/study. But that's different then anecdotal evidence and opinion that "regular" people put forth. And even with an education, I believe you'd see a subtle shift in how they do things once they have their own children.

[Miranda]

There are many things in life that will be a constant. You generally learn a harsh lesson and keep it with you even if in the back of your mind. Men are and have been great teachers through history and in life. Though they will never carry a child in them. I have had teaching experience and worked with children a big part of my life. My jobs did entail me to be with newborns, toddlers, 15- 24 hours a day at times depending on the assignment. I have been pregnant but miscarried, I think my advice is and can be just as valid as any birth mother. It's all about deep hard wiring and instinct. Obviously, you will have your idiots who should have never even had a child, of course. Birthing a child from your womb does not make you a good parent, it's what you do with your child in their formative years that will be with them for entirety of their lives.

[Miranda]

There are some bad parents out there who give advice as well then you see their kids and think oh your one to talk...they are fat, lazy...dirty...with bad manners but want to give advice? NOT

You use many "relative terms". What you think is stupid, I may not. Same with fat, lazy and manners. As, I said, just because a woman had a baby does in no way mean she was ready for it or mentally prepared. No one knows what their future will hold for them. People really need to clean their own houses before trying to clean other people's. I'm not the one who refers to my children as : Thing A and B or was it Thing 1 and 2???

[Homicidalheathen]

They are twins and I have stalkers....

they asked me not to mention names or post pics last year sorry but thats the way it is...smart kids

we saw a tshirt with that on it at disney...thats how it came about...

everyone knows my kids are great from my sacrafices.....I gave up a lot so they would have a good life with stability

[Goth Brooks]

just tell the parents to beat their kids more often.

[Homicidalheathen]

just tell the parents to beat their kids more often.

I know you say this in jest...but that is the problem with some kids. Maybe not beatings...but groundings yes...

They get on your nerves sometimes being stuck in the house...but it works...take away the video games...tv...

all those extras are called Bargaining chips!

Its those people who give in....oh well he kept bugging me so I gave it back (xbox) early...then they don't learn!

[Goth Brooks]

I know you say this in jest...but that is the problem with some kids. Maybe not beatings...but groundings yes...

They get on your nerves sometimes being stuck in the house...but it works...take away the video games...tv...

all those extras are called Bargaining chips!

Its those people who give in....oh well he kept bugging me so I gave it back (xbox) early...then they don't learn!

oh i'm not saying it in jest.

every kid in my family that was raised like an angel has grown up to be worthless.

why is it people raise pets more appropriately then their own kids?

please people, whip your kids :(

i'm tired of the headaches when going to the stores.

[Guest Megalicious]

Forth. I do respect the opinions of experts who have done years of schooling/training/study. But that's different then anecdotal evidence and opinion that "regular" people put forth. And even with an education, I believe you'd see a subtle shift in how they do things once they have their own children.

I would agree with that. There is a difference between someone that HAS LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE with children and someone in your profession H. It just seems to be so easy for people that don't have children to say "Don't let your kid do that, or this" blah blah blah, and as I'm sure you know H it not as easy as at that with children, because you have the experience and have had the pleasure of observation and interaction with their awesome little minds.

I especially hate when the suggestion lies some where along the lines of physical forms of discipline. Though I have never had someone suggest to me personally, I can not AND WILL not EVER agree with anyone who thinks it is RIGHT to strike a child. Nor is it something I like to hear someone defending, it is vile, ugly, counter productive and has no really purpose other then teaching said child that hitting and physical attack is an exceptable way to act.

As for your later question, having to do with abuse help, people just want someone they can relate to and can relate to what they have been thorough and even if they don't observe at first to use as a guide and role model, its like the light at the end of the tunnel, I can be normal too one day.

[pomba gira]

I know you say this in jest...but that is the problem with some kids. Maybe not beatings...but groundings yes...

They get on your nerves sometimes being stuck in the house...but it works...take away the video games...tv...

all those extras are called Bargaining chips!

Its those people who give in....oh well he kept bugging me so I gave it back (xbox) early...then they don't learn!

Definitely... children need and want adults to set limits for them. Holy-terror kids are actually begging for some adult to give them some guidance. And there are all kinds of alternatives to corporal punishment... but for them to work you have to be CONSISTENT and follow through with your decisions. OK, sometimes a smack on the hand is the only thing that will get through to a toddler... but for older kids, it just makes them feel resentful and victimized, and teaches them that using force to get what you want is the way to go.

People who advocate regular beatings for children are usually in that "good old days" mindset. Well, yes, in the "old days" kids did have more respect for authority- but it was because the adults in their lives had more respect for authority, not because parents got the belt out for the slightest transgression. And the old "because I said so" just isn't going to work on today's kids, because it doesn't work on today's adults. It IS necessary to explain things and negotiate (to a point of course) with kids today, whether it conflicts with your own upbringing or not. It certainly conflicts with mine- but mine was 30+ years ago and "those were different times". Having seen the results I get from dealing with kids in a less autocratic way, I'd be pretty stupid to insist on taking a "my way or the highway" stance on every single issue.

And I doubt the whole "do as I say not as I do" EVER worked. You can tell your child to behave in school and respect the teacher till you're blue in the face... but if she constantly hears you making rude comments about your boss or family elders, that is the attitude she's going to emulate.

[Rayne]

I would agree with that. There is a difference between someone that HAS LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE with children and someone in your profession H. It just seems to be so easy for people that don't have children to say "Don't let your kid do that, or this" blah blah blah, and as I'm sure you know H it not as easy as at that with children, because you have the experience and have had the pleasure of observation and interaction with their awesome little minds.

I agree with Meg here, Hille. You have experience in an authoritative (sp?) role with children. I would trust the judgement of a teacher with experience when it comes to kids.

Experience in authority is the key there. Your just as responsible for those kids education and the care of those kids at school than the parents when the school day is over.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Advice given charitably and with a truly kind heart is always welcome.

Snide remarks, from any source, professional, with children, or otherwise, never are.

When people are really and truly trying to help you, then yes, you should at least give their advice a listen. If someone is just trying to puff themselves up, well, in that case, you have kids to worry about - you don't have time for that nonsense!

Do I think people without children can give advice? Yes. Do I think they know what it's like to be a parent? Not even close. it's okay - it's just such a unique experience that I don't think there is anything which it can fairly be compared to. The closest analog I could think of to having children is being in love, but even that's only HALF the story. Making sure your offspring don't end up on Jerry Springer is an AWESOME responsibility and not to be taken lightly.

Though other people may have knowledge about raising children, they don't know MY children. That's the difference. They know about this generic idea of children, or their own children, but not mine. Everyone said 'Oh, they're fussy. Put them in the car. Babies love the car.' Really? REALLY? Is that what Charlotte is telling me when she screams for 45 minutes in her car seat, is she trying to tell me how much she loves this? I think not.

And, at the end of the day, the kids are my responsibility. And they're my heart. So, it's really up to me to make sure they are okay. I will take all the help, real genuine honest, HELP, not judgements, that I can get.

Its those people who honestly CAN'T STAND KIDS I mean, can't handle being around them for long...that piss me off when they want to give advice.

So true. It's like 'you don't even LIKE children. So stop pretending to care about mine!'

or a NEW MOM... They are annoying with their news articles that they want you to read.

I'm a new mom myself, as is one of my dear friends. She cuts articles out of parenting magazines, puts them in plastic sheets, and organizes them in binders and then she refers to them. 'You know, according to Parents magazine...' I just want to break a high chair over her head sometimes.

They are twins

we saw a tshirt with that on it at disney...thats how it came about...

Guy wanted to dress up the girls as Thing 1 and Thing 2 for Halloween this year. He even said he would dress up as the Cat in the Hat to go along with it. What does that leave me dressing up as? The fish! The stupid fish! I am not being a stupid fish for Halloween! No one would even GET that! He said 'Maybe you can dress up as another Dr. Suess character? Yertle the Turtle? Horton Hears a Who? The Grinch?'

Are my options really this awful?!??!?! Blarg!

There really aren't any other famous twins though besides Thing 1 and Thing 2 - Wonder Twins notwithstanding.

[TitsMcGee]

Now I'm not a parent myself, but I am a pseudo-parent. I moved in with my older sister at the end of last semester to help her raise her two children after their father passed away. I've also been in their lives since both were babies, which right now feels like yesterday even though the oldest just turned 7. Yes I don't know everything about being a parent, and I may have not birthed my own child, but on some things I do know what I'm talking about. When it comes to advice that anyone gives, you need to evaluate it to the situation at hand, and don't completely disreguard it at the time because you never know when it actually might be useful.

[pomba gira]

Advice given charitably and with a truly kind heart is always welcome.

Snide remarks, from any source, professional, with children, or otherwise, never are.

When people are really and truly trying to help you, then yes, you should at least give their advice a listen. If someone is just trying to puff themselves up, well, in that case, you have kids to worry about - you don't have time for that nonsense!

I think this is the key. It always torques me to hear someone in the grocery line making snide, judgmental comments about what other people should do with their children. Giving advice means offering workable solutions to a problem, not just saying "you need to do something". Even if you have valid advice to offer, stating it in a negative, confrontational way is not going to get it listened to. When I am advising parents I never do it in a high-handed, "this is what you need to do" way... I make statements like "A lot of parents have had good results by trying..." or "this is a good strategy to try with kids like Keivoun who are very bright but have trouble staying focused...". When you give orders instead of choices, the whole counterwill thing comes into play and things are unlikely to turn out well for anyone involved.

[Homicidalheathen]

But there is a huge difference between spanking and beating. I was beaten till bloody and blue.

spanking if they are about to put a nail in a electrical socket...yah...to shock them out of doing it again.

Being a parent is about PATIENCE and understanding...

It is NOT easy being that patient. Thing 1 went through a temper tantrum phase.

(age 2 sucks....fucking 4's is worse...lol)

So...for about a year...she never got to go with me anywhere....and she stopped finally when she realized her actions were making her an outcast.

It wasn't easy....we had to schedule time apart so one of us would be home with her while the other parent took the 'good' twin (at the time...thing 2 was the 'good' twin lol) out.

It worked.

Oh and public humiliation too...I have used that. She was like 4 (again with that age) and when she stopped screaming to get what she wanted, or for attention...she turned Klepto in the stores. So, before we would walk out...I made her, in front of the cashier and everyone at the door...empty all her pockets.

And I scolded her If I found something and made her appologize to everyone for holding them up. Threw her tears and red face and all. It does take a village to raise a child...so if you see a parent in public having a hard time but trying to do the right thing...please be patient and courteous.

(If I saw someone beating the crap out of their kids....in the parking lot or something...I would call the cops.)

She stopped stealing too. Kids that age don't understand why you have to pass that little green paper back and forth to get things.

The beatings I endured made me shy, withdrawn and depressed. I have post traumatic stress disorder from it.

It did NOT make me do better in school....in fact It made me MORE distracted...

Perhaps my kids do have a bit of ADHD like me, but...I did not let them be medicated...I know people make jokes about the Hooked on Phonics...but it DID work for them. It was a lot of work doing that everynight after working 8 hours...but they learned to read and caught up with the class. Its HARD being a good parent.

I had to give up partying and most sex and everything I consider fun but music for oh say 13 yrs...

Then I went wild...heh...reverse psychology...it worked...they don't party at all. That sorta just came about...I didn't plan it...may not work for everyone...but by the time they were 16 they had figured out mom wasn't like other moms...and I am now glad I have two grown kids I can call close friends.

oh i'm not saying it in jest.

every kid in my family that was raised like an angel has grown up to be worthless.

why is it people raise pets more appropriately then their own kids?

please people, whip your kids :(

i'm tired of the headaches when going to the stores.