Appauled...

[Msterbeau]

I suppose I should just start calling myself humanist and leave it at that.

A finer statement for ALL of us could not be uttered.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Somewhat related...

When I took a class on the sociology of feminism, they were talking about men and women in relationships and the conclusion that the overwhelmingly female class, AND the male teacher came to was that all men are pigs and they're the reason marriages are failing. These women were almost gloating about the maltreatment they had received from men. The three guys in the class just shrank in their seats. One, Andy, sat behind me and I heard him mumble to himself 'I dunno. I think I'm a good husband. I love my wife.' He sounded...defeated. My heart broke for him. I'm sure he IS a good husband.

So, I told the women in the class that maybe if they didn't hang out with men who were pigs they would get treated better. Maybe they just need to pick better company.

They looked at me like I was crazy.

But, again, the thought that MAYBE there were men who did not fit their idea of what men are, just didn't jive well with them. Oh well. Their loss.

I think the real lesson here is that sociology classes can be really lame.

[Rev.Reverence]

A finer statement for ALL of us could not be uttered.

YAY!!

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Sorry for the double post, but I kind of want to add something...I think that in particular...it is white men. Simply because they used to be the opressors and so now have become the opressed...it makes me sad to think people believe it is ok to make someone "pay" for things they persoanlly had no hand in. I think every group has it's own set of probelms and anymore I feel like since everyone wants to try and fix their's first instead of eliminating half of the problems through dimolishing the lines between them, like missunderstanding and intolerance, everyone wants to sit back and say they're right.

Everyone always has to be right instead of realizing in many ways that we're all very wrong.

Haha, well said, just like they wear things to make men look and then ask how dare they be treated like eye candy. rofl Personally if i'm wearing something sexy...I want them to look. And hell I do want equal pay since for a Nuero clinical psychologist that means I will be making $30,000 less when I know I can be good at it too. And in general everyone should open doors for other people, it's just a nice thing to do lol.

I'll take your gamble on that....I don't think that the treatment, or view, of women as a whole has anything racially, nor ethnically, to do with it. The treatment of women has been universally bad for eons, and only in the past 50 years has their even been any sort of progress, though one can argue that the oppression has just changed, and become more subtle.

White males do not exhibit a more oppressive, outstanding nature towards women. In fact, Asian, Mexican, and African American communities have a higher rate of domestic violance and domestic dispute calls among male and female then a White community.

I will say that, as a white male, that the female oppression amongst the white communities is much more subtle, and while not as physically oppressive, is much more psychologically and emotionally devastating.

[jynxxxedangel]

I personally have known at least four men in my life, who have confided in me-- admitting they have been forced (or nearly forced) into sexual situations.

I find these revelations very disturbing. ANYONE who would force someone to do anything sexual against their will is GARBAGE, and not worthy of being considered human.

I myself have been sexually abused, and the ghosts of those mistreatments will haunt me in my dreams for the rest of my life. For anyone to make light about rape is enough to make me go completely ape-shit.

[n0Mad]

a police officer was raped by two men he had stopped, had told his unit and was then laughed at...and then shot himself on the spot. The class fell silent...my teacher said in a clam voice that for women people take pitty and are more understanding of their emotional state afterwards, but that men have no such thing for the most part.

I'm surprised the class continued to laugh at all after this story. Lack of support can really damage someone and if there was an unfortunate member of your class that had been sexually abused, I wouldn't be surprised if he shot himself when he got home because of your classmates' actions. I would be appalled too.

Somewhat related...

When I took a class on the sociology of feminism, they were talking about men and women in relationships and the conclusion that the overwhelmingly female class, AND the male teacher came to was that all men are pigs and they're the reason marriages are failing. These women were almost gloating about the maltreatment they had received from men. The three guys in the class just shrank in their seats. One, Andy, sat behind me and I heard him mumble to himself 'I dunno. I think I'm a good husband. I love my wife.' He sounded...defeated. My heart broke for him. I'm sure he IS a good husband.

So, I told the women in the class that maybe if they didn't hang out with men who were pigs they would get treated better. Maybe they just need to pick better company.

They looked at me like I was crazy.

But, again, the thought that MAYBE there were men who did not fit their idea of what men are, just didn't jive well with them. Oh well. Their loss.

I think the real lesson here is that sociology classes can be really lame.

As a general rule, stereotypes do exist for a reason. But it's our own fault we perpetuate them. Those who know me know that I'm the nicest guy in the world who will give anyone the shirt off my back and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I really am a sweatheart but can you believe that I was at least 2-3 times moreso than I am now? Over the years, women have broken me. I took an Interpersonal Communications course where I was one of three men. The rest of the class and the teacher were all women, most of which were of the "all men are pigs" mindset. It broke my heart to be in that class. I tried to be the exception my entire life but stones get thrown at me regardless. So over the years, I've become a little bit more of an asshole. A little bit more of a pig. I'm slowly turning into the stereotype not because I want to, but because I'm slowly being shaped into that by society's mindset, reactions, treatments, etc. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people say all men are pigs because they are, or did we become that way because that's what people say?

[Hellion]

male gender bashing,has always been a problem for many years,single white men(with no kids) get discriminated all the time through out this country,and its bulls%$t!carry on!!not all men are bad,not all women are bad bother genders have their fair share of rotten apples.

[SaGa]

then they turn lesbian. and well some of those relationships work, but you know what. its pretty much the same persona as a male/female relationship. odds are just the same fighting and domestic violence. alchohol abuse.

the few sinners(the sins of the group thats attacking) of a given gender/race/culture represents the whole through bad PR, hey lets point at THAT GUY whos a DEADBEAT DAD. wait hes a man. hey i know a deadbeat dad too. hmm maby all men are deadbeats at heart. they only act nice. lets lump them ALL in the same judgement. couple that with a past that cant be forgiven. even if you didnt do it. 150 years ago your great great great granddaddy did so since you share something with him. you are responsible.

the oxymoron. most of us are fighting for individualism, and equality

[GothicRavenGoddess (3)]

Men are the providers. Men aren't supose to show weakness. Its not okay for a man to cry, if it strikes his fancy.

These are things that have been in our society for ages. I hate it. This kind of upbringing has made some men so hard that they can't even show emotion to their wife and children. Because its a sign of weakness. Fuck that! Men are human. Women are human. Both are capable of rape against the other sex, or the same sex, whatever it may be. Becuase the way men "should" be, makes it "okay" to laugh, when a man gets raped by a woman. Who cares, he was weak, right? No, he was HUMAN He was weak because he had a knife/gun/weapon in his face, or was overpowered because there was more than one. Women don't have to use thier vagina's to rape, they can use any fallic shaped object and invade the body other ways. Rape is rape. if you say "no", male or female and its forced, its still rape!

I think there needs to a human rights, like Rev said. I agree with alot, if not all, of what he said.

People, male or female, disurve to be safe and protected by their fellow humans. It shouldn't be the man's job, or the woman's job. Its everyone's job. Someone is mistreated, stand up for them. A man wants to cry, be his shoulder. Someone cries rape, punish the one that did it. Don't laugh, or make it less than a big deal. Someone got hurt, ITS A BIG DEAL!

[EAF (1)]

I hate how the ideal of men is strong, no emotion, bread winners, protect everyone all the time and are to be a little cold and distant, while women are supposed to be pampered, look pretty, spoiled little princesses whose only function is to be a doormat and slave...what is so stupid about it all? A majority of people have BOTH listed traits...so why the hell does society try to still compare everyone to these standards that don't really exsist?

[pheramoans]

I think people's reaction of laughter to this subject stems from the leftover cultural beliefs that the male sex is stronger than the female sex. You still see females referred to as "the fairer sex" in many forms of media. Maybe the idea that the 'fairer sex' could take advantage of the 'stronger sex' is a laughable idea because people think that it's unbelievable in a way that a woman could overpower a man in that way.

[TitsMcGee]

I hate how the ideal of men is strong, no emotion, bread winners, protect everyone all the time and are to be a little cold and distant, while women are supposed to be pampered, look pretty, spoiled little princesses whose only function is to be a doormat and slave...what is so stupid about it all? A majority of people have BOTH listed traits...so why the hell does society try to still compare everyone to these standards that don't really exsist?

I'm with you on this one. Any guy who thinks that I'm going to be the 50s house wife walking around in a dress and heels all day cleaning the house is fucking nuts.

[freydis]

Yeah. You know, feminism has gotten a really bad rap lately. It really ISN'T supposed to be female chauvinism. That defeats the point. I suppose I should just start calling myself humanist and leave it at that.

Most people think early feminism when they hear the label, and arent thinking modern feminism. The rabid stuff was that way in the beginning for a reason. You dont see things like that as often anymore, because it's a different age.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I hate how the ideal of men is strong, no emotion, bread winners, protect everyone all the time and are to be a little cold and distant, while women are supposed to be pampered, look pretty, spoiled little princesses whose only function is to be a doormat and slave...what is so stupid about it all? A majority of people have BOTH listed traits...so why the hell does society try to still compare everyone to these standards that don't really exsist?

Woah, woah, wait a minute here...I'm NOT supposed to be a pampered spoiled little princess?

Aw, crap.

Well, don't tell my husband

[Destroit]

I'm with you on this one. Any guy who thinks that I'm going to be the 50s house wife walking around in a dress and heels all day cleaning the house is getting my stiletto in his balls...HARD.

Fixed

[Rev.Reverence]

Most people think early feminism when they hear the label, and arent thinking modern feminism. The rabid stuff was that way in the beginning for a reason. You dont see things like that as often anymore, because it's a different age.

UM...WHAT?

I deal with this shit all the fuckin' time... I'll be up at the Cafe... & some Lady will be talkin' shit about men & this & that & the other... how a man HAS to do the things a man has to do (goto work, pay the bills, buy his woman a car*)...UM..NO...I can sit at home & rear a child...as well OR BETTER than a closed minded sheeple (male OR female)...

Early/Modern... you say that like it has been so long...

*"Feminism"

Funny how many of these Ladies will say things like this..."take care of your woman"...then try to say they don't want to be an object....

I have a problem with that shit...it is fucking hypocritical... it is bullshit...

[Rev.Reverence]

As a general rule, stereotypes do exist for a reason. But it's our own fault we perpetuate them. Those who know me know that I'm the nicest guy in the world who will give anyone the shirt off my back and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I really am a sweatheart but can you believe that I was at least 2-3 times moreso than I am now? Over the years, women have broken me. I took an Interpersonal Communications course where I was one of three men. The rest of the class and the teacher were all women, most of which were of the "all men are pigs" mindset. It broke my heart to be in that class. I tried to be the exception my entire life but stones get thrown at me regardless. So over the years, I've become a little bit more of an asshole. A little bit more of a pig. I'm slowly turning into the stereotype not because I want to, but because I'm slowly being shaped into that by society's mindset, reactions, treatments, etc. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people say all men are pigs because they are, or did we become that way because that's what people say?

I hate rock throwing...

I think that we let anything with a penis call itself a man... that should stop.

You sir, are a Gentleman. These 'feminists' are apparently getting US confused with the assholes.... we must stand up & take back the righteous mantle "Gentleman"...

[Destroit]

I hate rock throwing...

I think that we let anything with a penis call itself a man... that should stop.

You sir, are a Gentleman. These 'feminists' are apparently getting US confused with the assholes.... we must stand up & take back the righteous mantle "Gentleman"...

Yes, and vice versa, because there's certain people that don't have a penis and yet are all that is man...or somewhat at least.

[Rev.Reverence]

Yes, and vice versa, because there's certain people that don't have a penis and yet are all that is man...or somewhat at least.

I know 2 or 3 Ladies that fix that description... (maybe more)...

[TitsMcGee]

Fixed

hahaha!

[aequorea]

first of all, you guys are all awesome!

as for the class situation... sounds like many of your classmates are sadly (or blissfully?) ignorant. unfortunately, that's probably not unusual. on the other hand, i would say your professor handled the situation well!

as many of you have already said, i think that equal rights and opportunities are very important. at the moment, it seems to me that the feminist movement has done a good job of advocating and encouraging social advancement for women. there's still a political and professional gap, but it's getting better.

i think that in some ways, men are getting a raw deal at the moment.

women can get away with wearing just about anything they like in terms of pants, dresses, shoes, etc. men are still restricted by social norms. a man who wears a dress and heels to a business meeting will probably not be very well received.

there are women's studies classes at universities, but i have yet to see a men's studies class.

breast cancer has become a cause celebre, but prostate cancer research is not supported in the same way. true, it's easy to get support for breasts, and a picture of a prostate might not be as easy to market

... but the need is there.

oh, and spook?

don't lose yourself!

i can relate. i realized this summer that i had internalized all sorts of social expectations. i had become more passive, more acquiescent, less argumentative than i used to be. i was also having trouble standing up for my own needs and desires. learning to Domme helped with that!

[Draco1958]

I'm surprised the class continued to laugh at all after this story. Lack of support can really damage someone and if there was an unfortunate member of your class that had been sexually abused, I wouldn't be surprised if he shot himself when he got home because of your classmates' actions. I would be appalled too.

As a general rule, stereotypes do exist for a reason. But it's our own fault we perpetuate them. Those who know me know that I'm the nicest guy in the world who will give anyone the shirt off my back and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I really am a sweatheart but can you believe that I was at least 2-3 times moreso than I am now? Over the years, women have broken me. I took an Interpersonal Communications course where I was one of three men. The rest of the class and the teacher were all women, most of which were of the "all men are pigs" mindset. It broke my heart to be in that class. I tried to be the exception my entire life but stones get thrown at me regardless. So over the years, I've become a little bit more of an asshole. A little bit more of a pig. I'm slowly turning into the stereotype not because I want to, but because I'm slowly being shaped into that by society's mindset, reactions, treatments, etc. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people say all men are pigs because they are, or did we become that way because that's what people say?

I can relate in a way to this. I have always been a gentleman. Respectful, courteous and such. But no matter what I did it was never right for my ex. If I cooked dinner, it wasn't on time. If I fixed something around the house, it wasn't soon enough. So I dealt with a barrage of you're not worth anything, you're this, you're that. That class laughing probably did so because they thought the story was fake, that it couldn't happen. I wasn't abused sexually but I was metally and verbally. I'm 6'3", my ex was 5'2" yet she was the aggressor all the time. My point is that I agree it can happen because to a point, I was abused. Not to the degree a lot of others have been so I'm not comparing degree of abuse. just stating I have a little understanding about some of it. And not all guys will react aggressively to it, some will just accept it, hoping it is over quickly or they just don't want to argue it. Which is how I dealt with it. Sorry if I sidetracked this thread. Just wanted to explain where my thoughts came from. IMHO, I think the part of the problem is is that guys hear so much about men are pigs and see how some guys like that have a girlfriend or wife and the nice guy is single, he starts to change thinking it's what women want. Or a woman who doesn't believe she deserves a nice guy looks for the guy who's a pig. So for me, I think part of the problems are caused by the actions of a few but our penchant for putting it on everyone, the all men are, all women are mentality makes the problem worse. I hope this makes sense, I'm not attacking any of the sexes so I hope it doesn't sound like I am. I just think we as a society has a penchant for expecting everyone to be like the few bad apples we meet.

[EAF (1)]

Well all I can say to the gentlemen out there is please hang in there...and give me a call sometime? lol Really even that door swings both ways unfortunatly...you try and stand up for yourself and the ignorant and blind keep holding you back, shoving you back down again each time. It's really hard to keep that inner fight alive when being so VASTLY out numbered at times. I suppose that's how I felt in that classroom that day which is why I had wrote this in the first place I guess. But I know there are good people out there, I think society in general should really be focussing on everything as "WE" not the current overwhelming chant of "ME ME ME".

And thank you to all that posted and even some who didn't...this did help to show me there are still people with common sense out there.