Help me understand Satanism

[Black Sunday9]

I know a few of you are self described satanist and I am confused by this.

It seems you are not satanist as in you worship the anti-christ but rather you subscribe to the Anton Lavey belief system, but there is no theological diety to worship, so where did the term "satan" come from as it pertains to the religion of Lavey's version of satanism?

Or if you are a Lucifer worshipping satanist, why? If you believe that Lucifer Calaritanus exists and is opposition to God or Christ then you believe also in holy scripture (either the old testament or both) and you believe that Propechy will leave Satanist to eternal damnation. Thus you believe in sacrifices, thievery, murder, etc Am I correct?

I also have two other theories on Satanism. One is that there you might think of Lucifer Calaritanus the fallen angel as some sort of maryter because he supposedly stood up to the Holy Father for the sake of mankind, in that Lucifer believed mankind should exist for itself and not for God (I remember something about stealing the light from god to give to humans). This line of thinking would pretty much assume that the old testament, the new testament and the quran are all a bunch of lies.

Finally I think it is possible some people might be satanist simply because they think it is cool or goth or whatever.

I would like some insight on this, thanks for your time.

edit: Ok I read the other thread and got some answers. You can megre this with that thread or not.....thanks again.

[Vater Araignee]

I know a lot of "satanists" will tell you that satan is for them,a symbol.At least thats what some of the folks from Anton Levays church said on the discovery channal show I watched a few months back!However there is a companion book to the satanic bible called The satanic rituals.It's seem to me this book is about more than merely metaphorically worshiping satan!I thought it all made sense once upon a time of course I was thirteen!They will tell you they believe in living your life for yourself and thats a good a idea but damn if you have to create a religon whos primary purpose is to be little another persons religon I would say you are a person with too much time on your hands.They are christians who revile christianity! Read the satanic bible for yourself you may even get a chuckle out of it!

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|was not me|

[sinnaminn]

See thats the risk you take if you both post @ the same place from the same comp. That Vater post is my post!I am such a dork Sorry Vater! :blushing

[Black Sunday9]

  See thats the risk you take if you both post @ the same place from the same comp. That Vater post is my post!I am such a dork Sorry Vater! :blushing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your post was right, that for some, Satan is a symbol more than a diety.

It makes me thinkg though, that Levay would have been better off writing a philosphy book rather than a bible, that perhaps the word Satan would really turn off alot of people who might otherwise be into his theories. Then again maybe he'd just be scene as a Ayn Ran hack if he didn't go the whole satanic route.

I have yet to read the satanic bible. However I flipped thru it. some of it sounded interesting....til I got to the part about magick. I think that is where I'd really have some critique.

[Rozzlyn]

I know a few of you are self described satanist and I am confused by this. 

It seems you are not satanist as in you worship the anti-christ but rather you subscribe to the Anton Lavey belief system, but there is no theological diety to worship, so where did the term "satan" come from as it pertains to the religion of Lavey's version of satanism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is covered in LaVey's writing. Start with the Satanic Bible.

Read. Learn.

Now, if you want my opinion that's another story as not all of that is written down somewhere easily obtainable at your local Border's.

[Rozzlyn]

I have yet to read the satanic bible.  However I flipped thru it. some of it sounded interesting....til I got to the part about magick.  I think that is where I'd really have some critique.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to offend or anything, but if you just "flipped thru (sic)", then you didn't actually read it.

I wouldn't go around saying "I read the Torah," when all I did was just "flipped through."

[Daevion]

The problem with Lavey is that none of his ideas were or are original, he basically wrote down a philosphy thats based on what people were already doing at the time (1960's, 70's).Actually, I think its more accurate to say that Levay's satanic bible was based off his personal philosphy, which was completely self centered and selfish. He was a "showboat", kinda like how marlyn manson is. He was smart and capitalized on the whole occult revival that was popular at the time. He also tried to model himself after Crowly (Did a very good job of it ) in certain respects, only the names have changed. Replace: "Church of the Golden Dawn" with "Church of Satan".

If your really interested in Lavey, the church of satan has a good history on thier site http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

Its obvious they are biased but easy to see thru.

damn, this firewall is blocking the history section only for some reason, wtf :blink

[Black Sunday9]

Not to offend or anything, but if you just "flipped thru (sic)", then you didn't actually read it.

I wouldn't go around saying "I read the Torah," when all I did was just "flipped through."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's why I said "I've yet to read it". For someone suggesting I read something, you might want to give reading my post a try.

[FarrIL]

Hah, I cant begin to tell you how many people thought I was a Satanist because I said I was reading up on Druidism. HELLO, Druidism and Satanism are two different beliefs.....

..... Morons.

Anyway, with Satanism, from what I've read from an actual Satanist, is that they spend their time living for the self indulgence of it all. I dont know about sacrificing and what not, but they dont worry about gluttony, or envy, or any of the other 7 deadly sins. They spend their time having fun instead of worrying about whether or not they are sinning.

To a Christian, damn the Satanists. They'll go to Hell in a heartbeat.

Yet also, to a Christian, I'd be going to hell to because I read up on Druidism. Oh wah. I was raised Christian and I still respect the Church.

However, I'll accept the fact that other religions reside on this Earth and i therefore will not discriminate what is right and what is wrong to them. What is wrong to me may be right to them, and vice versa.

So, I think that a Satanist worries about indulging themselves, one way or another, than worrying about sinning.

[Daevion]

Anyway, with Satanism, from what I've read from an actual Satanist, is that they spend their time living for the self indulgence of it all.  I dont know about sacrificing and what not, but they dont worry about gluttony, or envy, or any of the other 7 deadly sins.  They spend their time having fun instead of worrying about whether or not they are sinning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its definitely not just satanists that think and live like that...sounds like a lot of CC'ers

[Black Sunday9]

Anyway, with Satanism, from what I've read from an actual Satanist, is that they spend their time living for the self indulgence of it all.  I dont know about sacrificing and what not, but they dont worry about gluttony, or envy, or any of the other 7 deadly sins.  They spend their time having fun instead of worrying about whether or not they are sinning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but why do they need a religion to do this? It seems you don't need anyone telling you to not care about sins, just go out and not care about sins and you just saved $30 because you didn't have to buy the satanic bible.

[JaneDead]

hehehehe

[Shade Everdark]

but why do they need a religion to do this?  It seems you don't need anyone telling you to not care about sins, just go out and not care about sins and you just saved $30 because you didn't have to buy the satanic bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that was what religion was. "We know the right way to live to get the good stuff at the end, if you want to know how just give us money!"

Sounds like Christianity to me. Buddhism's kinda the same way. Can't speak to the others, though.

[Black Sunday9]

I thought that was what religion was.  "We know the right way to live to get the good stuff at the end, if you want to know how just give us money!"

Sounds like Christianity to me.  Buddhism's kinda the same way.  Can't speak to the others, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well at least with Christianity you get a good story....or history lesson, depending on where you stand.

[Daniel]

but why do they need a religion to do this?  It seems you don't need anyone telling you to not care about sins, just go out and not care about sins and you just saved $30 because you didn't have to buy the satanic bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is an actual philosophical system outlined in Satanism. It isn't just one general rule to live by. It would help to just read it, I think. Most of the replies in this thread are speculative and somewhat misinformed.

Well at least with Christianity you get a good story....or history lesson, depending on where you stand.

Bah. Not so much. If you like bloody, violent literature, The Bible is definitely groundbreaking. But, otherwise, it doesn't have a whole lot of original or accurate material contained in it.

[Black Sunday9]

There is an actual philosophical system outlined in Satanism. It isn't just one general rule to live by. It would help to just read it, I think. Most of the replies in this thread are speculative and somewhat misinformed.

Bah. Not so much. If you like bloody, violent literature, The Bible is definitely groundbreaking. But, otherwise, it doesn't have a whole lot of original or accurate material contained in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well alot of the bible seems inaccurate but cannot be proven innacuatate. For example the bible says the earth is 6,000 years old, scientist believe it is much older. But c14 dating is only 100% accurate for things less than 2,000 years old. The bible also states the earth doesn't rotate, that king david would rule israel forever, that snakes eat dirt, that pi is 3, etc etc but christians play word games to try and reconcile the inaccuracies.

I think I will read the satanic bible. I don't think I will subscribe to Levays ideas but it should be a good read nonetheless.

[Rozzlyn]

I thought that was what religion was.  "We know the right way to live to get the good stuff at the end, if you want to know how just give us money!"

Sounds like Christianity to me.  Buddhism's kinda the same way.  Can't speak to the others, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, more or less, that's what all religion basically is.

Even "unorganised" religions, like neo-paganism still expect people to give royalties to some writer (or surviving loved ones of the writer -- like Wicca's Gerald Gardner) in order to learn "the path". Then there's the huge market for neo-pagany doo-dads.

Religion is all about giving away your money for crap. Some say it's a waste, but honestly, it's necessary to society that most people be religious. It's always existed, so doing away with it would be near-impossible.

[Rozzlyn]

There is an actual philosophical system outlined in Satanism. It isn't just one general rule to live by. It would help to just read it, I think. Most of the replies in this thread are speculative and somewhat misinformed.

Well, those who are have obviously made that choice -- now they have another choice and that is whether or not to change their minds.

Bah. Not so much. If you like bloody, violent literature, The Bible is definitely groundbreaking. But, otherwise, it doesn't have a whole lot of original or accurate material contained in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I agree there. What's most amusing about that is many of the same people who complain about the violence on television and in video games also insist that only crazy Bible-thumpers make the best parents.

People are WEIRD.

[Black Sunday9]

Bah. Not so much. If you like bloody, violent literature, The Bible is definitely groundbreaking. But, otherwise, it doesn't have a whole lot of original or accurate material contained in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and by the way, which bible are you reffering to as being unoriginal? The new testament certainly borrows from the story of the ancient pagan god osirius who was born to a virgin and rescurected from the dead.

but the old testament is fantastic literature. What specificly do you take as plagerism?

[Fierce Critter]

Even "unorganised" religions, like neo-paganism still expect people to give royalties to some writer (or surviving loved ones of the writer -- like Wicca's Gerald Gardner) in order to learn "the path".  Then there's the huge market for neo-pagany doo-dads.

Religion is all about giving away your money for crap.  Some say it's a waste, but honestly, it's necessary to society that most people be religious.  It's always existed, so doing away with it would be near-impossible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is one reason when I found myself on the pagan path, I realized "organized" paganism was just as unfollowable for me as Catholicism was.

I tried hardcore Wicca - bought the books, the tools, the trinkets. And read the rules, the dogma, the guidelines.

And felt like I was back in Church, sitting, standing, kneeling on command.

Epiphany hit, and I returned the books, the tools, the trinkets to the store I got them from. Stopped saying the words SOMEONE ELSE wrote, and started looking within.

That's when I feel I became fully spiritual, when I discovered The Church Of Me.

Allowing me the freedom to include the philosophies, even some of the beliefs of many different religions, just not the man-written dogma.

My karma ran over their dogma, and now I live by that rule - don't fuck with someone or you're going to get fucked with.

[Daniel]

and by the way, which bible are you reffering to as being unoriginal?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am speaking of it primarily as a moral/ethical treatise. The Bible, New or Old Testament, offered nothing new philosophically, other than maybe the concept of hell. Most(all) of Jesus's ideas were presented by other philosophers or religious figures previously, and typically, the original authors presented their ideas more coherently and with greater depth of understanding.

As far as The Bible lifting stories from elsewhere... a bit of research would yield a lot of insight here. Flood myths, for example, are common to a lot of cultures that predate The Bible. The character of Satan has roots in many other older myths that aren't geographically very far from where The Bible originates (Egypt, for example). Elaine Pagels wrote a great book called "The Origins of Satan", that I recommend if you are interested in that sort of thing.

The Bible is a very "hodge-podge", incongruous work that really doesn't offer much in the way of beneficial or insightful wisdom. Most of the stories are rather reprehensible, and not a very good basis for cultural morality. Moses makes Hitler look like a Sesame Street character. Suspicious and debatably accurate supernatural qualities aside, Jesus offered very little of worth. Christianity's popularity is the result of the world's political system at the time (Rome, the fall of Rome, etc). It worked as a great political tool, and inspired people. But, in this day and age, there really just isn't anything in there that is remarkable, noteworthy or needed in anyway... unless of course you just enjoy reading archaic and violent literature.

[Homicidalheathen]

Maybe this will help I dunno. I don't have the questions you do. http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

or just go to www.churchofsatan.com

[Black Sunday9]

thanks for the book suggestion daniel and the website HH.

[Daevion]

Maybe this will help I dunno.  I don't have the questions you do.  http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

or just go to www.churchofsatan.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess you didn't read my post since I already posted that link

[Goth Brooks]

thanks for the book suggestion daniel and the website HH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My suggestion would be to go to Borders and grab the Satanic Bible and read just the Book of Lucifer, you don't even have to waste your money.. it should take you maybe 30mins to read. After that, go to the website and read the 9 Statements, the 11 Rules of Earth, and 9 Sins. Although the 9 statements are also found in the Bible, it may be better to read them at the same time as the rules and sins.

That should be all you need to read to form a basic understanding of Satanism. If you get it, by all means read more.. if not, then it will probably be just wasting your own time. But that's your own choice to make.

Oh... and despite what's been mentioned, the book only costs $6.99.