Scientology: Jason Beghe in Germany

[Scales]

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Pretty interesting regardless if you agree or disagree. Interesting commentary, sounds like a fairly small part of a much longer talk. I wonder if the whole thing is available.

The key problem with Scientology is its not vague enough and wishy washy enough so it could be re and misinterpreted a billion different ways. Once you get a "religion" with lazer beam specifics its easy to start picking it apart. "Certainty" is pretty much by definition wrong. (Bit of a paradox in a statement like that)

Unfortunately if we start being aggressive against unfounded beliefs we have to do some similar commentary on widely held systemic nonsense that gets more respect due to the sheer number of adherents (and all that comes with such wide popularity). Scientology is just a fun target because the adherents are small enough in number that we can get away with it and not ruffle to many feathers. Guess its better to have some "safe" targets of irrationality than none though. Maybe once people get used to it they will look closer to home, figuratively that is.

Audio is a bit hard for me to hear. Had to crank it up fairly high. He goes into various things that Scientology markets to "sell" the religion. Very similar to any existing more well known religion. The criticisms laid on Scientology could work almost on a 1 for 1 basis with any of the major religions just switch some terms around.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

yeah, lets just get that ball rolling.. we will have all out religious persecution in no time.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Most religions I've spent any time studying have built-in persecution complexes. They should. Its generally true. (Depending on how we define persecution.)

[TitsMcGee]

Personally I think Scientology is a cult.

[Rev.Reverence]

I watched the posted link...finally...I would like to note that this guy states very little in the negative...HOWEVER; he states less in the positive...

...I just so happen to know a bit about Scientology...being the shining example of eclecticism that I am...

...Like many before it...it is not getting a "fair tell" in the places I have heard it spoken of in...

FIRST: Religion, is not necessary for a Human Being... Spirituality is... supposedly contained within the various Religions.....

If you ask a Religious leader which Religion contains the Key to Spiritual Enlightenment... the odds are he will tell you his Religion has it...

IF you can get an Enlightened man to answer the same question... the odds are he will say, "Whichever one your using", & probably laugh at you.

MOST PEOPLE HERE FEEL NO NEED TO CONTAIN THEIR SPIRITUALITY.....RIGHT?

NOTE: most Humans do feel a necessitation to contain & categorize everything...even if it means mislabeling things occasionally (ha).

Hence...these peoples look weird... well... not that weird to me...

Scientology looks from a distance like the O.T.O., or some such semi-secret organization...

..or Catholicism... or the Protestants... or the Dr.Seuss Society.....

..So cut your fellow Human Beings a break for their weirdnesses...

[Rev.Reverence]

Personally I think Scientology is a cult.

...which I remind you is how Christianity, Judaism, Islam & Discordia got started...

...A N D...

There are many so called 'cults' around the world...like Baha'i, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... or even The Church of the Sub-Genius..

It's not like they are stockpiling weapons & fucking children...

L.Ron does not = David Koresh!

[TitsMcGee]

...which I remind you is how Christianity, Judaism, Islam & Discordia got started...

...A N D...

There are many so called 'cults' around the world...like Baha'i, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... or even The Church of the Sub-Genius..

It's not like they are stockpiling weapons & fucking children...

L.Ron does not = David Koresh!

Hun I basically look at all organized religions as a cult, in true sense of the definition. In the true sense of the word religion in itself is just one giant cult, and I'm sure this opinion will get me in trouble.

Cult - a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

[SaGa]

http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm

Ron L Hubbard said it best when he said "the easiest and fastest way to get rich is to start your own religion"

hmm im going to put up for laughs this

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Start_a_Religion

god uncyclopedia gives me way to many laughs. all the time

"Tip

Having trouble determining who your enemies are? When in doubt, hating the United States of America is always a viable and popular option. In fact, there is a chance millions will immediately convert to your religion for this reason. " this might have some merit here. heh

[Rev.Reverence]

Hun I basically look at all organized religions as a cult, in true sense of the definition. In the true sense of the word religion in itself is just one giant cult, and I'm sure this opinion will get me in trouble.

YES.

[Raev]

I'm known to stand against Scientology. Not so much because of what it believes in as a religion, not because it's an organization with it's own dogmas and morals (ffs, I'm a friggin Freemason after all)...but because of things such as the Fair Game practice.

I like to draw attention to this particular part -

The policy was further extended in an October 1967 Policy Letter (HCOPL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV, Penalties for Lower Conditions), where Hubbard defined the "penalties" for an individual deemed to be in a "Condition of Enemy":

ENEMY — SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed

.

While officially canceled, Fair Game practices have been used in modified forms with varying names until present day. The latest being in response to an organization calling themselves "Anonymous". When a leaked video of Tom Cruise was posted on YouTube, the Church of Scientology reacted in what was perceived to be a heavy handed manner to have it removed. Anonymous responded to the perceived "internet censorship" with DoS attacks, prank calls and black faxes. Since then, numerous reports have been made of Anonymous individuals being revealed, some claiming assault, others citing personal intimidation and threats of violence being issued against them and their families.

While some of the claims cannot be verified, others have been credible enough to warrant police reports and legal actions.

While Anonymous may have used poor judgment in the initial project of harassment, the Sceintologists reaction is disproportionate to the offense against them and falls clearly in line with the Fair Game policy.

It is because of this policy that I stand firmly in opposition to them. I stand firmly against ANY group whom uses fear, intimidation or violence in which to achieve a goal.

[pomba gira]

I'm known to stand against Scientology. Not so much because of what it believes in as a religion, not because it's an organization with it's own dogmas and morals (ffs, I'm a friggin Freemason after all)...but because of things such as the Fair Game practice.

What he said (except I'm Yoruba not Freemason).

Also, the common definition of a cult isn't just a non-mainstream belief system. The defining characteristics of a cult in the modern sense are: An individual (usually charismatic) leader who is held to be the ultimate authority and/or claims divine status; assumption of control over most or all aspects of believers' lives; requiring a large financial outlay to rise in the religion's hierarchy or attain advanced "enlightenment"; attempts to alienate members from non-believing family or spouse; punitive actions against members who leave the group. I would say Scientology meets all of those criteria pretty solidly.

That said, gotta give L.Ron's Army props for being the only organization I can think of to ever outface the IRS. That's pretty damn impressive.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Fair Game is basically the same as a basis for "attacks" or "harassment" of "SPs" or "PTSes" (Antisocial Personalties deemed "evil") being "fair game." Which is basically anyone that doesn't buy into Scientology's ideology. (Sounds familiar)

I didn't realize this was a practice that was recanted. (Studied Scientology like a decade ago fairly deeply for curiousity sake the same way I study most religions.) The only thing I thought that was recanted at that time was the use of "declaring" someone the target of a fair game policy as it was deemed a bad practice to let it be known publicly who the target was and just sounded bad. The idea itself was still intact. It was made clear that it was meant to be kept legal. That is, basically what many companies / people / relgions do anyhow, they just don't all have it in clear writing.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

I love The Cult!