history of Freemasons

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

George Washington was not only a Freemason raised to the degree of Master in the state of Virginia and he just like Ben Franklin (another Mason) were indeed deists. Of the signers of the Dec. of Independence, 9 of 55 were Freemasons. Many of those 55 were involved in the drafting and ratifying of the Constitution. The majority being neither Freemason nor Quaker.

The core of the new ideals presented in the Constitution comes from literature on Republicanism with other strong ties to as well as the beliefs of Montesquieu.

Quakers have a belief of direct experience of God was available to all people, without mediation . George Fox described this by writing that "Christ has come to teach His people Himself."

In addition, generally speaking Quakers have no creed. Freemasons, do.

In contrast to this, you have the Freemasons whom are rather different from the Quakers and have members from all styles of faiths in which a "higher power" is believed in - but there is no religious tie amongst Brothers other than that. There is no core Masonic religious belief.

While it is true that there is a parallel to some Masonic ideals to some of the writings of the Declaration and Constitution, this is almost a coincidence. Yes, some of the founding fathers were Freemasons but they were not the majority. Of course Freemasons cast their votes toward something they believed in - but the core of the structure draws the majority of it's influence from the above mentioned items and John Locke.

The due process clause of the United States Constitution was partly based on common law stretching back to the Magna Carta of 1215.

As for my stating no references in speaking on Freemasons - I cite myself as my own reference.

Master Freemason.

Hiram110, Flat Rock MI.

I would have to argue that the 9 Masons might not have been seen as the majority, but I can place a good bet that they were a circle of highly influental members...as you have already pointed out America's first President, as well as commanding general of the military, George Washington..as well as noted intellectual, inventor, and America's first actual international representative Ben Franklin...

I still hold my stand that the Masons and Quakers hold a large influence in this countries foundation, even in it's modern workings, then any other religious sect...if not by majority, then by influence.

[Rev.Reverence]

Christians have done this for years....it's called Origional Sin....and then a good part is Excommunication, which has happened several times because a Catholic of high office didn't agree with the Pope....

plus...IF we were going to tote around an award ceremony for most vicious and intolerant persecutor of religions, lemme toss out some historical events for ya....Spanish Inquisition....Persecution of Native Americans in Central and South America....Persecution of Protestants in Europe...Jesuit actions in the Orient....I can go on..but I would rather not...

and Rev...I was talking about the founding fathers IN GENERAL...you did add to the George Washington mention..."GEORGE WASHINGTON... amongst his other early Brothers"....and the design of our money tosses much of that "DEIST" right out the window...the Masons were deeply involved in the foundation of our official government procedures and the wording of the Constitution, as well as the Bill of Rights....just like they were responsiable for the Magna Carte...and true identity behind Jack the Ripper...I will take my Tin Hat now please....I think I earned...

...the money is a mute point... if you look at the Deist definition of G*D...

..really... do I have to wright it in a poem to make you follow what I am saying?

Hmmm...

*grabs a pen*

[Raev]

and Rev...I was talking about the founding fathers IN GENERAL...you did add to the George Washington mention..."GEORGE WASHINGTON... amongst his other early Brothers"....and the design of our money tosses much of that "DEIST" right out the window...the Masons were deeply involved in the foundation of our official government procedures and the wording of the Constitution, as well as the Bill of Rights....just like they were responsiable for the Magna Carte...and true identity behind Jack the Ripper...I will take my Tin Hat now please....I think I earned...

Freemasons did not rise to a noticeable point until the 17th century. The Magna Carta was originally issued in 1215.

In God We Trust is the official national motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.

As for the Jack the Ripper bit...please tell me you are kidding? Steven Knight put it best with -

Though Stephen Knight's conclusions have been disproved numerous times, the "Royal Conspiracy" theory refuses to die. In fact, Knight's book is still in print after more than two decades, and remains one of the most widely read books on the subject. Though Knight fudged much of his evidence, he did make a number of worthwhile discoveries during his research. Recommended only to those interested in a good fictional read.

[Raev]

Confirmed Freemasons whom were signers of the Declaration-

George Walton, John Hancock, Robert Treat Paine, Richard Stockton, William Whipple, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Benjamin Franklin, William Ellery.

The total list of signers-

The 56 signatories of the Declaration of Independence were:

Delaware

• George Read

• Caesar Rodney

• Thomas McKean

Pennsylvania

• George Clymer

• Benjamin Franklin

• Robert Morris

• John Morton

• Benjamin Rush

• George Ross

• James Smith

• James Wilson

• George Taylor

Massachusetts

•John Adams

• Samuel Adams

• John Hancock

• Robert Treat Paine

• Elbridge Gerry

New Hampshire

• Josiah Bartlett

• William Whipple

• Matthew Thornton

Rhode Island

• Stephen Hopkins

• William Ellery

New York

• Lewis Morris

• Philip Livingston

• Francis Lewis

• William Floyd

Georgia

• Button Gwinnett

• Lyman Hall

• George Walton

Virginia

• Richard Henry Lee

• Francis Lightfoot Lee

• Carter Braxton

• Benjamin Harrison

• Thomas Jefferson

• George Wythe

• Thomas Nelson, Jr.

North Carolina

• William Hooper

• John Penn

• Joseph Hewes

South Carolina

• Edward Rutledge

• Arthur Middleton

• Thomas Lynch, Jr.

• Thomas Heyward, Jr.

New Jersey

• Abraham Clark

• John Hart

• Francis Hopkinson

• Richard Stockton

• John Witherspoon

Connecticut

• Samuel Huntington

• Roger Sherman

• William Williams

• Oliver Wolcott

Maryland

• Charles Carroll

• Samuel Chase

• Thomas Stone

• William Paca

~~~~~~

Yes, 2 of the 9 Masonic signers were probably highly influential. The other 7, no more than any other name on the list of signers.

In addition, of the 9 signers - they were Freemasons in mostly different states and in different lodges. Furthermore, Freemasons don't always agree with each other on everything. Trust me.

I would also like to point out a few other names on that list -

Caesar Rodney, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Richard Henry Lee, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Jefferson and John Penn. Influential, important people in their own right.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Freemasons did not rise to a noticeable point until the 17th century. The Magna Carta was originally issued in 1215.

In God We Trust is the official national motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.

As for the Jack the Ripper bit...please tell me you are kidding? Steven Knight put it best with -

"To a noticeable point"...that can mean that it did not come to the public eye until that time....it does not construed that the Freemasons were not an influential religious and political organization through early history.

The Christian Religion never came "to a noticeable point", in a world sense, until the Emperor Constantine...but it was highly influential before that, with several powerful Roman Senators being secret converts.

As for "In God We Trust"...that is mute to any point...I was rather pointing out the All Seeing Eye, which happens to be also part of the "Great Seal of America".

Freemason Symbols and American Curancy

"The Great Seal was approved by Congress in 1782 but it wasn’t added to the dollar until the 1935A series." ...1782....the design of the seal was approved in 1782...now..lets go back to the importance in symbolism that the All Seeing Eye possesses, shall we?

" Besides the obvious Masonic significance of this design, it has a cabalistic value of seventy plus three plus two hundred, equaling two hundred and seventy-three which is the value of the phrase EHBEN MOSU HABONIM (the stone which the builders refused) familiar to all Royal Arch Masons. It is also the value of the Hebrew proper noun HIRAM ABIFF, the architect of Solomon's Temple and the principal character of the legend used in the Master Mason degree. The triangle is isosceles, formed by two right triangles having sides of five, twelve, and thirteen units in length, illustrating the 47th Problem of Euclid. The triangle also represents the capstone of the unfinished pyramid and reminds the Mason of the immortality of the soul and that in eternity he will complete the capstone of his earthly labors according to the designs on the trestle-board of the Supreme Architect of the Universe. The unfinished pyramid cannot fail to remind him of the unfinished condition of the Temple when tragedy struck down its Master architect."

So, we have established that one of our oldest Symbols is largely influenced by Mason beliefs.

Now..lets go into the list of important Americans during that time that were Freemasons

William Ellery, RI

Benjamin Franklin, PA

John Hancock, MA

Joseph Hewes, NC

William Hooper, NC

Robert Treat Paine, MA

Richard Stockton, NJ

George Walton, GA

William Whipple, NH

9 signatures on the Declaration of Independance

and now...members that were suspected Freemasons, but due to lodge records being MISSING, cannot be confirmed

Elbridge Gerry, MA

Thomas Jefferson, VA

Richard Henry Lee, VA

Thomas McKean, DE

Robert Morris, PA

Thomas Nelson, Jr., VA

John Penn, NC

Benjamin Rush, PA

Roger Sherman, CT

James Smith, PA

John Witherspoon, NJ

another 11 signatures, that were from possible Freemasons. That, hypothetically, brings the signatures from the Freemasonry....I guess League would be a good word...to 20...They now just became the major influental party at the Signing...

[Raev]

I've heard the "lodge records" line before.

From personal experience I pay that no attention. First off, "lodge records" are never made public so them existing or not has no bearing. The 9 who are known freemasons - they are known because they didn't conceal it. Furthermore, again from personal experience I know that lodges keep very good records.

The 11 suspected are suspected just because of being in proximity to known members. They can't really be added to the count, based on knowing members. I know a lot of people but that by no means indicates that the ones i know are as well. In fact, the vast majority of people I know are NOT freemasons. Saying they are part of the fraternity just because there isn't evidence that they WEREN'T isn't a very good argument and never has been.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I've heard the "lodge records" line before.

From personal experience I pay that no attention. First off, "lodge records" are never made public so them existing or not has no bearing. The 9 who are known freemasons - they are known because they didn't conceal it. Furthermore, again from personal experience I know that lodges keep very good records.

The 11 suspected are suspected just because of being in proximity to known members. They can't really be added to the count, based on knowing members. I know a lot of people but that by no means indicates that the ones i know are as well. In fact, the vast majority of people I know are NOT freemasons. Saying they are part of the fraternity just because there isn't evidence that they WEREN'T isn't a very good argument and never has been.

but those 11 can't be fully discounted as members though, right?...I mean...we're talking at time in America that to be all for FREEDOM was something you hid....

[Raev]

but those 11 can't be fully discounted as members though, right?...I mean...we're talking at time in America that to be all for FREEDOM was something you hid....

Even in modern day, there are a lot of Freemasons whom don't reveal their identity. I am one who advertises it. I have the sticker on my car, I wear the ring etc. Some that I know, well one would not know. I've been surprised to learn that a few people I've met were fellow Freemasons, people I've known for years. Also, at that time in America being a Freemason wasn't something tabboo - when at the time there was no Grand Lodge set up in the United States yet and the various lodges were chartered under the flag of the Grand Lodge of England.

The 11 cannot be counted nor discounted. Suspicion does not make one guilty, so to speak.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I can attest to that. I have a friend I knew for tens years before I knew he was a mason. Rather high ranked but I dont really know how high.

Oddly, since I have moved to Florida, I have had 4-5 men I have met pass hand signals at me to find out if I were a Mason. I'm not. I do belong to the Order of Knights of Pythias though.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Even in modern day, there are a lot of Freemasons whom don't reveal their identity. I am one who advertises it. I have the sticker on my car, I wear the ring etc. Some that I know, well one would not know. I've been surprised to learn that a few people I've met were fellow Freemasons, people I've known for years. Also, at that time in America being a Freemason wasn't something tabboo - when at the time there was no Grand Lodge set up in the United States yet and the various lodges were chartered under the flag of the Grand Lodge of England.

The 11 cannot be counted nor discounted. Suspicion does not make one guilty, so to speak.

a POSSIBLE reason for them to hide it...English Connections....I can't say if they are or are not...I'm just on the flip side of the coin...if they WERE Masons....it changes things considerably then, does it not??

If they WERE revealed to be Masons....then it would show a ruling party early on when there wasn't supposed to be one...so "hiding" the membership of 11 members might be ness to make everyone in an early government feel equal.

[Rev.Reverence]

a POSSIBLE reason for them to hide it...English Connections....I can't say if they are or are not...I'm just on the flip side of the coin...if they WERE Masons....it changes things considerably then, does it not??

If they WERE revealed to be Masons....then it would show a ruling party early on when there wasn't supposed to be one...so "hiding" the membership of 11 members might be ness to make everyone in an early government feel equal.

INFLUENTIAL... does not mean RULE...

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

INFLUENTIAL... does not mean RULE...

that would be a matter of opinion....if your influential enough, you can "rule" anything. Ruling something isn't all about all iron hands and force...being able to influence and, in part, control the seats of power, and/or colleagues to grab those seats, then you can pretty much do anything you want...Manipulation is stronger then force...thats been a documented fact for years...

[Rev.Reverence]

that would be a matter of opinion....if your influential enough, you can "rule" anything. Ruling something isn't all about all iron hands and force...being able to influence and, in part, control the seats of power, and/or colleagues to grab those seats, then you can pretty much do anything you want...Manipulation is stronger then force...thats been a documented fact for years...

Ruling was / is not on their agenda.. certain persons however have a personal psychological bent towards politics... all the Masonic literature I have gotten a hold of has been put together to 1) keep history... 2) make good men better...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Rev, people fear what they can not or will not understand.

[Rev.Reverence]

Rev, people fear what they can not or will not understand.

...but it doesn't bother me..

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Wasn't talking about you man.

[Rev.Reverence]

Wasn't talking about you man.

They're reaction of fear does not bother nor dissuade me from attempting to spread as much Knowlege as I can...

..... plus *points out into the web* there are the lurkers reading...

[Raev]

Rev, to you I tip my hat.

You are absolutely correct. Freemasons have no interest as a collective society in ruling the world. Our 'mission statement' is "To teach men how to be better men. Not better than others, just better than themselves"

I find that there are two kinds of people who apply Freemasons to major world events.

Nutjob conspiracy theory freaks, whom assume that just because there have been a handful of important people in the worlds history whom have been members - and we do NOT and NEVER will disclose what happens behind closed doors - that it must have some sinister grand scheme.

Lets face it. There are over 7mil of us TODAY in the world. If we were all working toward some end global goal - at 7mil strong today - and this NOT being the largest we've ever been....then we would have accomplished it already.

The second kind of people seem to be those whom just have no knowledge of what we really are (which is common, as we disclose very little of what we do) who happen to find the writings of the nutjobs and buy into it, because Freemasons as a collective unit do not make official statements against any of it, since the extreme vast majority say nothing at all. The official stance is - if you really want to know what we do, then seek us out.

I can say with a strong confidence that there was no masonic conspiracy regarding the founding of this nation. Why? Because Freemasons as a whole are not focused on such things.

[Raev]

I can attest to that. I have a friend I knew for tens years before I knew he was a mason. Rather high ranked but I dont really know how high.

Oddly, since I have moved to Florida, I have had 4-5 men I have met pass hand signals at me to find out if I were a Mason. I'm not. I do belong to the Order of Knights of Pythias though.

I have family that are members that I didn't know were until AFTER I became a Master Mason. I didn't know just how prominent it is in my bloodline until after reaching the final degree of blue masonry.

As for hand signal tests, there are soooo many ways to spot check to see if someone is a Freemason lol.

I do it at work at least once a week when dealing with my accounts. Often it starts with someone giving a little lingering look at my ring, as usually only other masons see the hidden symbols in it. I'll intentionally phrase something in such a way that only another Freemason would catch it or I'll make a seemingly innocent hand gesture that means one thing to all the observers who wouldn't think it odd - but would tell another Freemason more than a paragraphs worth of typing would.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

When I said "hand signals", I was simplifying.

I am somewhat failure with Masons. I spent most of my adult life near this place...

http://www.masonicpathways.com/index.php

I used to go there with my friend I mentioned above to visit with people and keep some of them company.

[Raev]

When I said "hand signals", I was simplifying.

I am somewhat failure with Masons. I spent most of my adult life near this place...

http://www.masonicpathways.com/index.php

I used to go there with my friend I mentioned above to visit with people and keep some of them company.

I'm familiar with the place

I have been contemplating making a visit up there, to pay due respects to my brothers whom have earned it.

The Freemasons of yesterday...the knowledge they have is truly amazing and I've nothing but the most sincere and utmost respect for them.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Rev, people fear what they can not or will not understand.

LMFAO....Fear?...I don't FEAR anything that collaberates itself into a group, no matter their agenda...groups ALWAYS have a weak link...you wanna know what i thought to be the greatest act of terror against americans??...it wasn't 9-11....it was that Sniper after 9-11.....one guy...hard as hell to trace..seemingly random attacks...deadly aim...that guy was FEAR....

I have no fear of Freemasons, whatever may be their agenda...in fact...I have nothing but respect for Freemasons, especially on an artistic level...but I hold no blinders to the fact that being crafty, not only in hands, but also in mind, is a trait that the Freemasons hold dear. One of the most famous Freemason designs??...a keyhole that, if you failed to pick it right, would SHOOT you....Another one...a spiral staircase, with the inside that slides UP to reveal more stairs...all out of a single peice of wood....increadiable...but also reveals that they are a society with many...MANY secrets....even Raev admits there is TONS he cannot say...and there is probably TONS he doesn't know...most likely because he has no access to it.

so no...I have no FEAR of them...or much else....but there is TONS that we don't know...either from not being there or not having access to the information....

[Raev]

even Raev admits there is TONS he cannot say...and there is probably TONS he doesn't know...most likely because he has no access to it.

so no...I have no FEAR of them...or much else....but there is TONS that we don't know...either from not being there or not having access to the information....

The information will never be made available.

As for what I know but do not say - if you really want to know what it is that I know and will never speak to the public, then come prove yourself and earn the knowledge.

As for what I do not know. There are still 2 rites and the shrine in which I have not addressed. I cannot speak on Scottish Rite, York Rite nor Shriners. For the core of Masons, I know damned well what I can speak and what I wont speak.

As for our "agenda"....

To help men be better, not than anyone else - but better than themselves.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Can you speak about Tuetonic Knights?

[Raev]

Can you speak about Tuetonic Knights?

Yes.

Though truth be told, I'm by no means an expert on them. Be it the original order back in the 12th century, or the more modern variant.