Eugenics

[TygerLili]

How do you propose the population would be controlled? Through what mechanism exactly? And doesn't each family make that decision for themselves already? Why would ANYONE but that family need to weigh in on the decision as to how many children they should have?

As far as big families go, I'm not against them, per se, I just feel bad that the children in those families don't get as much individualized attention as those in smaller families, and that they're usually expected to care for younger siblings on a regular basis, taking away from time they could be using to focus on their own needs and wants. I'm an only child, and wouldn't have wanted it any other way, so take that as you will. But you're right, as long as they're not asking me for money or other assistance, it's not really any of my business how many kids they have.

I do, however take offense that my tax dollars have to be spent providing welfare, food stamps, etc. to people who have more kids than they can afford or take care of. I don't really have any good suggestions how to deal with this, other than just hoping people stop being so damned irresponsible about having children. The more utilitarian part of me thinks that after you've had two children that you can't take care of, the government should tie your tubes for you, whether you like it or not. But the other, more sympathetic part of me looks at the situations in China and India and realizes that forced population control and taking away someone's reproductive rights is a slippery slope.

[Rev.Reverence]

I do not in any way, shape, or form support nor defend, required/regulated eugenics...I thought I should make that clear.

I do support people knowing their genetic backgrounds...sometimes people can be genetically predisposed to certain illnesses...in these cases, we can sidestep certain sorrows, by choosing the person we mate with...

I have several thoughts on what WE as Humans should do in order to

FIRST...we need to cut WAY back on "accidental" pregnancy...not when the peoples are married/partnered & don't care either way...I mean the rampant unprotected "accidents" ("" because at a certain point it is a matter of probabilities being fulfilled & I refuse to call it an accident)

SECOND...we need to KNOW things genetically... about ourselves..& our CHOSEN mates..

THIRD...we need to FIND that person we are most genetically compatible..& that we find LOVE with...

FOURTH...we need to have an excess of revenue to take care of another tribal member..

FIFTH...we NEED to LOVE WHILE we conceive a child..

...call it a natural drive to add the strongest sample I can to the gene pool..

Whether or not anyone chooses to goto these or more stringent levels of selectivity; is completely up to the person in question, of course.

[Rev.Reverence]

Well, then let me ask you this. Let's say these parents HAD gotten screened somehow for MD, and they had decided to have a child together anyway. What would you think of that decision?

Um...irresponsible...

[Rev.Reverence]

Ah, and there you have it. You don't know HOW to eradicate disease through eugenics without the accompanying genocide. Maybe it's because there ISN'T a way to do it?

...that we know of YET..

...perhaps my freinds on Sirius 5 can help us out...I'll ask them when I am done constructing the mega dome...(totally joking)

[Nightgaunt]

Since eugenics movements in the past HAVE led to wholesale extermination of a peoples, what makes you think it would be different this time? On what evidence do you base this belief?

It would likely be no different. The "modern" eugenics movement is spearheaded by the same people who started the whole sorry mess the first time. These are the same people who advocate the culling of 90% of the human population. The Rockefeller family is a huge proponent of culling and eugenics and have been since the beginning. Read the writings of David Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Bill Gates, hell, just about anyone on the Council for Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, or Bilderbergers. These people are insane and they're in control of 99.99% of the world's wealth. The modern eugenics movement is not about improving the human race; it's about creating a twisted "utopia" for the "elite".

[Rev.Reverence]

My major point... I think.. was that things get applied in the wrong way often.

[Goth Brooks]

My point is that supporting one aspect of eugenics will inevitably lead to one certain, and destructive end.

What other end would it lead to?

Healthier, longer living people?

[Oh_My_Goth]

Have you asked them? The parents, I mean, have you asked them?

If you asked them 'Would you prefer that Tommy were perfectly healthy?' they would most certainly say yes. EVERY parent would say that. If you asked them 'Would you prefer Tommy not be here at all, because you could have prevented his birth?' you might be surprised at the answer.

I won't pretend to know what these parents are thinking. Maybe they would say yes, I don't know. But friends of mine who ARE raising children with various disabilities, MD among them, would all say no - they accept and love the child that they have. As he or she is.

I am concerned about how the child feels.....Not the parents.....

The other fatal flaw with this plan, though well intentioned and I can see that, is that you won't catch everything. If you discover that you won't pass on MD to your children, there could a hundred other things you might. I wouldn't want anyone to enter a pregnancy with the mindset that they could control the outcome of it. The fact is, you can possibly do things to improve the chances of a healthy child (taking folic acid for example) but you can't control for everything.

No, you can not control everything.....

Well, then let me ask you this. Let's say these parents HAD gotten screened somehow for MD, and they had decided to have a child together anyway. What would you think of that decision?

I would think they were selfish.....

Which people, specifically? And what should be the limit of the family size? On what criteria do you base this? As I said in an earlier post, you all would be horrified to know how many kids were in my family. Horrified. Like, how could two people be so cruel and selfish as to have this many children. Horrified.

I am not a judge.....

And you can go here to see my point>>>>>HERE

Ah, and there you have it. You don't know HOW to eradicate disease through eugenics without the accompanying genocide. Maybe it's because there ISN'T a way to do it?

No, I wish I did.....You don't know until you try.....

[Oh_My_Goth]

Healthier, longer living people?

Preposterous.....

[Goth Brooks]

And redheaded women that look 16 for a minimum of 10yrs.

[peelingchrome]

I do not in any way, shape, or form support nor defend, required/regulated eugenics...I thought I should make that clear.

I do support people knowing their genetic backgrounds...sometimes people can be genetically predisposed to certain illnesses...in these cases, we can sidestep certain sorrows, by choosing the person we mate with...

I have several thoughts on what WE as Humans should do in order to

FIRST...we need to cut WAY back on "accidental" pregnancy...not when the peoples are married/partnered & don't care either way...I mean the rampant unprotected "accidents" ("" because at a certain point it is a matter of probabilities being fulfilled & I refuse to call it an accident)

SECOND...we need to KNOW things genetically... about ourselves..& our CHOSEN mates..

THIRD...we need to FIND that person we are most genetically compatible..& that we find LOVE with...

FOURTH...we need to have an excess of revenue to take care of another tribal member..

FIFTH...we NEED to LOVE WHILE we conceive a child..

...call it a natural drive to add the strongest sample I can to the gene pool..

Whether or not anyone chooses to goto these or more stringent levels of selectivity; is completely up to the person in question, of course.

+10

[SaGa]

I do not in any way, shape, or form support nor defend, required/regulated eugenics...I thought I should make that clear.

I do support people knowing their genetic backgrounds...sometimes people can be genetically predisposed to certain illnesses...in these cases, we can sidestep certain sorrows, by choosing the person we mate with...

I have several thoughts on what WE as Humans should do in order to

FIRST...we need to cut WAY back on "accidental" pregnancy...not when the peoples are married/partnered & don't care either way...I mean the rampant unprotected "accidents" ("" because at a certain point it is a matter of probabilities being fulfilled & I refuse to call it an accident)

SECOND...we need to KNOW things genetically... about ourselves..& our CHOSEN mates..

THIRD...we need to FIND that person we are most genetically compatible..& that we find LOVE with...

FOURTH...we need to have an excess of revenue to take care of another tribal member..

FIFTH...we NEED to LOVE WHILE we conceive a child..

...call it a natural drive to add the strongest sample I can to the gene pool..

Whether or not anyone chooses to goto these or more stringent levels of selectivity; is completely up to the person in question, of course.

hehe that whould restric the pond much. if everyone followed that, im sure half whould be single. well those who are socially under societies social curve. sooo we have been dating for um 2 months now, i will need your criminal record, your genetic record, ooh and your credit record. hmm damn i cant date you sorry we click sooo well but you know your not "genetically" in tune with me. hehe dating is already complicated enough.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Um...irresponsible...

And if they loved and cherished that child regardless, would you still consider them irresponsible?

[sass_in_the_pants]

Healthier, longer living people?

Please explain further.

No, really.

Explain.

Would disease and illness be eliminated if we practiced eugenics? And how would this be achieved? What happens when someone does, accidentally, of course, pass on bad genes? They are now, dangerously, in the gene pool. What happens then?

[Rev.Reverence]

hehe that whould restric the pond much. if everyone followed that, im sure half whould be single. well those who are socially under societies social curve. sooo we have been dating for um 2 months now, i will need your criminal record, your genetic record, ooh and your credit record. hmm damn i cant date you sorry we click sooo well but you know your not "genetically" in tune with me. hehe dating is already complicated enough.

..& I quote ME...

Whether or not anyone chooses to goto these or more stringent levels of selectivity; is completely up to the person in question, of course.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I am concerned about how the child feels.....Not the parents.....

Excellent point. You already stated he can't speak for himself, so I ask you, again, but this time from his point of view. Again, I'm sure if living a perfectly healthy life were an option on the table, he would take that. That would be a given. But if he had a choice of being born or not, what do you think he would choose? Tough to say since he can't speak for himself, which is why I asked about his parents.

I would think they were selfish.....

And, as I already asked to Rev, what if they loved and cared for that child regardless? What if they dedicated their lives to that child? Still selfish?

I am not a judge.....

And you can go here to see my point>>>>>HERE

Well, but you are. You said that certain people should not breed. You have not answered my question. Which ones, specifically. You are judging which people are worthy of being here or not. That's what eugenics IS.

[Rev.Reverence]

And if they loved and cherished that child regardless, would you still consider them irresponsible?

...hm....yes...if you know something is very likely to happen, & you tempt fate anyways...& then the forewarned calamity occurs...I will consider you a foolhardy & irresponsible hairless-monkey...whether or not the people involved are so inclined to shoulder the responsibility in an honorable fashion...acting in such an honorable fashion, while noteworthy, does not erase such silliness...

..I feel very strongly that if one is to procreate, one should aim to make children more than they are...at least by 1.

Things happen in this Chaotic manifestation...people are different than each other for a reason...I'm not calling for a "culling", I am calling for more responsible mating habits in an across the board manner...perfectly healthy peoples should really think harder than they do about breeding...perhaps a good start is to think of procreation as what it is...

[Rev.Reverence]

Well, but you are. You said that certain people should not breed. You have not answered my question. Which ones, specifically. You are judging which people are worthy of being here or not. That's what eugenics IS.

I would like to see more peoples choose not to breed.

I think that is what O_M_G is saying as well...

..at least I did not see ANYONE wright up a list...

[Oh_My_Goth]

I am concerned about how the child feels.....Not the parents.....

Excellent point. You already stated he can't speak for himself, so I ask you, again, but this time from his point of view. Again, I'm sure if living a perfectly healthy life were an option on the table, he would take that. That would be a given. But if he had a choice of being born or not, what do you think he would choose? Tough to say since he can't speak for himself, which is why I asked about his parents.

I would think they were selfish.....

And, as I already asked to Rev, what if they loved and cared for that child regardless? What if they dedicated their lives to that child? Still selfish?

I am not a judge.....

And you can go here to see my point>>>>>HERE

Well, but you are. You said that certain people should not breed. You have not answered my question. Which ones, specifically. You are judging which people are worthy of being here or not. That's what eugenics IS.

I did not judge anyone.....I stated my opinion.....

I obviously have a different set of beliefs than you and you will never see my point.....

I do not understand the way you think.....Please enlighten Me on how your world is working out better than mine might.....

Does it really have to be one extreme or the other?????

Is there no gray area in you world?????

& When this child in particular would sit in his chair, crippled beyond belief, watching the other kids.....He would cry.....

[Shade Everdark]

One of you Epsilons needs to quit your jabbering and go find me some Soma. Now.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

Why not?

Because nature happens.

Humans are not the only thing on this planet that adapts.

Viruses spontaneously mutate.

Bacteria evolves to fit new conditions.

The human body is the essence of bio-chemistry in action.

We break in new and surprising ways all the time.

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

[Guest Megalicious]

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

Why not?

Because nature happens.

Humans are not the only thing on this planet that adapts.

Viruses spontaneously mutate.

Bacteria evolves to fit new conditions.

The human body is the essence of bio-chemistry in action.

We break in new and surprising ways all the time.

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

The man has an excellent point. Even if you do believe in breeding out the "bad genes" some mutations are just spontaneous. It WILL happen.

That being said I don't believe in Eugenics, because in order to breed "bad genes" out, I wouldn't have full control over who I can and can not mate with. Enough said.

But I do see your point OMG, why have suffering when there really isn't a need to (in the case with the boy with MD).

[TitsMcGee]

My personal belief is that some gene pools could use a little bleach, like the majority the Kentucky .

[Oh_My_Goth]

One of you Epsilons needs to quit your jabbering and go find me some Soma. Now.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

Why not?

Because nature happens.

Humans are not the only thing on this planet that adapts.

Viruses spontaneously mutate.

Bacteria evolves to fit new conditions.

The human body is the essence of bio-chemistry in action.

We break in new and surprising ways all the time.

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

It might help.....

It won't solve everything, but it might help.....