Eugenics

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It might. It might also create a new "race" and leave the rest of humanity behind as secondary citizens.

It might also create horrible mutaions, sterility and genetic abortations like we have never seen.

We have decoded the genome, we do not understand it.

[Rev.Reverence]

It might. It might also create a new "race" and leave the rest of humanity behind as secondary citizens. That would be called evolution...

It might also create horrible mutaions, sterility and genetic abortations like we have never seen. I want just 1 tentacle please...

We have decoded the genome, we do not understand it. WHAT?

.....I don't remember anyone bringing up alterations....I don't think it is a smart idea...it is one thing to study the probabilities, & breed accordingly...another to want to uncoil DNA & re-set/swap stuff around...REALLY THOUGH....what is the real problem here... what do you peoples really have against informed forward movement?

[Oh_My_Goth]

.....I don't remember anyone bringing up alterations....I don't think it is a smart idea...it is one thing to study the probabilities, & breed accordingly...another to want to uncoil DNA & re-set/swap stuff around...REALLY THOUGH....what is the real problem here... what do you peoples really have against informed forward movement?

Exactly.....

I DO NOT understand what is wrong with advancement of the Human race.....

This extremest paranoia we have going on here makes Me look sane.....

Can nobody see the gray area?????

[Destroit]

It might. It might also create a new "race" and leave the rest of humanity behind as secondary citizens.

It might also create horrible mutaions, sterility and genetic abortations like we have never seen.

We have decoded the genome, we do not understand it.

Genetic mutations and abortations from simply CHOOSING a mate? Like the sewer people in Futurama right? Oh man...you're stretching on that a little.

A) Genetic mutations happen all the time, not from being selective about a mate.

B) Nobody said anything about going in and tinkering with any chromosomes here.

C) Genetic mutations are already in occurance that would be considered undesirable, such as down syndrome, turner's syndrome, cystic fibrosis, etc. Why would this make it any different?

Having your genetics screened before having a kid is a good idea, imo. I would feel guilty as fuck for the rest of my life if I knew my family line had a huge disorder and just had a kid without having my mate's genes screened to see how much of a risk I would have passing it on directly. Anything less is selfish, imo. I mean, if I were a carrier for something and my mate wasn't, I wouldn't worry about it too much because odds are it may not pass to my child and most definately won't be a dominant trait if it did, just recessive.

People have been choosing the best of the best for their mates since the beginning of time. It's actually a drive of most species. Ever see two male bucks in the forest clashing antlers? The better of them wins and therefore gives his better genes to the female. In the human world females will generally, or are supposed to rather (America tends to deviate from this now), try to find a nice tall hot-bodied attractive male that seems to be a good provider and seems to be in good health, because by choosing that man her child is getting those genes and even before humans knew about genetics, hell I'm betting before we even knew about fire, we realized this. Animals do it all the time in nature, and are supposed to, and should imo. It's called advancing our race.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Genetic mutations and abortations from simply CHOOSING a mate? Like the sewer people in Futurama right? Oh man...you're stretching on that a little.

A) Genetic mutations happen all the time, not from being selective about a mate.

B) Nobody said anything about going in and tinkering with any chromosomes here.

C) Genetic mutations are already in occurance that would be considered undesirable, such as down syndrome, turner's syndrome, cystic fibrosis, etc. Why would this make it any different?

Having your genetics screened before having a kid is a good idea, imo. I would feel guilty as fuck for the rest of my life if I knew my family line had a huge disorder and just had a kid without having my mate's genes screened to see how much of a risk I would have passing it on directly. Anything less is selfish, imo. I mean, if I were a carrier for something and my mate wasn't, I wouldn't worry about it too much because odds are it may not pass to my child and most definately won't be a dominant trait if it did, just recessive.

People have been choosing the best of the best for their mates since the beginning of time. It's actually a drive of most species. Ever see two male bucks in the forest clashing antlers? The better of them wins and therefore gives his better genes to the female. In the human world females will generally, or are supposed to rather (America tends to deviate from this now), try to find a nice tall hot-bodied attractive male that seems to be a good provider and seems to be in good health, because by choosing that man her child is getting those genes and even before humans knew about genetics, hell I'm betting before we even knew about fire, we realized this. Animals do it all the time in nature, and are supposed to, and should imo. It's called advancing our race.

[freydis]

Well, then let me ask you this. Let's say these parents HAD gotten screened somehow for MD, and they had decided to have a child together anyway. What would you think of that decision?

My grandparents had seven children.

Four are dead from Cystic Fibrosis. They knew they had a fifty-fifty chance of having a child with it. They had them anyway. How could they not?

I am surprised.... even Science Fiction cautions against Eugenics--

Brave New World

Gattaca

....And many, many others..... can't you see where it could lead? Hell, even just meddling with food, science has learned that you can often destroy certain qualities that are actually *desirable* that you may not recognize right away, and destroy them forever. Hell, it was playing with genetics that created the killer africanised bee.

[freydis]

Um...irresponsible...

NO.

When you have genetic predispositions, it does NOT mean 100% that you will have a child with this disease. Sometimes the chance (depending on the disorder) is 1 in 4. So because they have a 1 in 4 chance of having a sick kid they shouldnt have any at all?

That's kind of depressing.

Instead, how bout early screening? Isn't that part of the testing they do with high-risk pregnancy anyway?

[Rev.Reverence]

.....I don't remember anyone bringing up alterations....I don't think it is a smart idea...it is one thing to study the probabilities, & breed accordingly...another to want to uncoil DNA & re-set/swap stuff around...REALLY THOUGH....what is the real problem here... what do you peoples really have against informed forward movement?

HEY MUNIN...I am not trying to be rude...but...^look.

[Oh_My_Goth]

My grandparents had seven children.

Four are dead from Cystic Fibrosis. They knew they had a fifty-fifty chance of having a child with it. They had them anyway. How could they not?

Easy.....

Birth control and selflessness.....

[freydis]

Healthier, longer living people?

Is this necessarily a good thing?

[freydis]

One of you Epsilons needs to quit your jabbering and go find me some Soma. Now.

FTW!

Shade has won the coolness prize.

I adore you!

heheheheheh....

[Rev.Reverence]

NO.

When you have genetic predispositions, it does NOT mean 100% that you will have a child with this disease. Sometimes the chance (depending on the disorder) is 1 in 4. So because they have a 1 in 4 chance of having a sick kid they shouldnt have any at all?

That's kind of depressing.

Instead, how bout early screening? Isn't that part of the testing they do with high-risk pregnancy anyway?

Yup...I think..that to gamble (with something so precious as Human life)...is irresponsible.

Plenty of orphans for adoption.

PLENTY of people on the planet to choose from when looking for a mate...(I know, "looking for a mate" is a lost art, allot of people nowadays just push a kid out with whoever they are with when they decide they want one...if they even plan to have a child. I do not know many who did)

[freydis]

Exactly.....

I DO NOT understand what is wrong with advancement of the Human race.....

This extremest paranoia we have going on here makes Me look sane.....

Can nobody see the gray area?????

An informative book would be Science, Truth, and Democracy by Philip Kitcher. His idea of well-ordered science includes abandonment of pursuits that would harm others. Free inquiry, Kitcher tells us, while vital for the advancement of science, should be guided by a prudent hand. Inquiry that would harm the less fortunate elements of a society, in good conscience, should not be pursued. Instead of suggesting limits on inquiry, however, Kitcher cautions against them; limits might appear to validate the prejudicial assumptions of the public. [Kitcher’s assessment seems cognizant of how rhetorics could be employed in a negative manner.] He instead calls for the scientist to be guided both by his own moral compass and that of his peers’ (93-108).

As wordy as the dude is, he makes a lot of sense.

[phee]

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

Why not?

Because nature happens.

Humans are not the only thing on this planet that adapts.

Viruses spontaneously mutate.

Bacteria evolves to fit new conditions.

The human body is the essence of bio-chemistry in action.

We break in new and surprising ways all the time.

Eugenics will not work. Ever.

+1

[phee]

Lets say that they tried to breed out schizophrenia, depression, and other things like that.... this board as well as most of its members would not exist

[Oh_My_Goth]

Lets say that they tried to breed out schizophrenia, depression, and other things like that.... this board as well as most of its members would not exist

Why breed out treatable illnesses?????

[phee]

Why breed out treatable illnesses?????

Why not? Lets solve the problem before it even starts... save the tax payers money....

[Oh_My_Goth]

This thread deserves a.....

[Rev.Reverence]

Why...is it that Eugenics HAS to be construed as some geneticist trying to make a "perfect" human?

Why can it not be people making informed decisions?

Why does laboratory manipulations of genes HAVE to come into play?

No one here thinks we should be altering anything in the DNA... just being more picky (or responsible) about who/when/how we breed.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

We have decoded the genome, we do not understand it. WHAT?

Just what I said. Genome is what they call the genetic code. We have it decoded. That means we have a map of it. We dont understand it, because we dont have the index. We have a very small percent of the index. Like low single digit.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You miss the point.

Selective breeding can give unwanted results. No one knows all the combinations genetics has.

Eugenics, even with selective breeding has the potential to bring about just as many unwanted results as wanted. What makes it worse than letting nature take it's course is that instead of one or two births with a particular bad mutation... you get lots of them.

Breeding out MS for example... might, without anyone knowing it, breed in a susceptibility to a type of mold that almost no one was susceptible to before.

[Rev.Reverence]

Just what I said. Genome is what they call the genetic code. We have it decoded. That means we have a map of it. We dont understand it, because we dont have the index. We have a very small percent of the index. Like low single digit.

...I was being punny Gaf...I understood the context.

[Rev.Reverence]

You miss the point.

Selective breeding can give unwanted results. No one knows all the combinations genetics has.

Eugenics, even with selective breeding has the potential to bring about just as many unwanted results as wanted. What makes it worse than letting nature take it's course is that instead of one or two births with a particular bad mutation... you get lots of them.

Breeding out MS for example... might, without anyone knowing it, breed in a susceptibility to a type of mold that almost no one was susceptible to before.

I can see what you are saying...but non-selective breeding seems rather... well...not thought out... AT ALL...TOO OFTEN.

[freydis]

Easy.....

Birth control and selflessness.....

The first 3 children didnt have it.

One didnt develop any symptoms until her late thirties.

I think youre being unrealistic.

[freydis]

Why...is it that Eugenics HAS to be construed as some geneticist trying to make a "perfect" human?

Why can it not be people making informed decisions?

Why does laboratory manipulations of genes HAVE to come into play?

No one here thinks we should be altering anything in the DNA... just being more picky (or responsible) about who/when/how we breed.

Your idea of Eugenics is incredibly naieve.

Look at history.

Look at the suggestions and warnings of science fiction.

You have more faith in humanity than you should.