President Barack Obama

[Goth Brooks]

That is like saying, "If you don't respect the Star of David...then you do not Love G*D"...which is silly...you are confusing a SYMBOL...with a CONCEPT (of naming some land between here & there America.) but you all mistakenly take a GREAT CONCEPT & think of it as a proper noun...something that is...& well...it simply is not. (& I love being there)(MOSTLY)

The symbol is supposed to be the representative OF the concept.

When you see the Star of David, you see Judaism. When you see the cross, you see Christ. When you see the stars and stripes, you see the United States of America.

To disrespect one is to disrespect the other.

That's why they're symbols in the first place, they represent a specific thing.

[freydis]

That is like saying, "If you don't respect the Star of David...then you do not Love G*D"...which is silly...you are confusing a SYMBOL...with a CONCEPT (of naming some land between here & there America.) but you all mistakenly take a GREAT CONCEPT & think of it as a proper noun...something that is...& well...it simply is not. (& I love being there)(MOSTLY)

No, it would be a more accurate analogy that you would expect someone wanting to be the pope to respect the cross. When the symbol IS a significant symbol of office, there are certain behaviours you expect, and deem appropriate or inappropriate.

And you of all people I would think could appreciate the significance of symbols. Not just materially or spiritually, but psychologically, too.

[phee]

No, it would be a more accurate analogy that you would expect someone wanting to be the pope to respect the cross. When the symbol IS a significant symbol of office, there are certain behaviours you expect, and deem appropriate or inappropriate.

And you of all people I would think could appreciate the significance of symbols. Not just materially or spiritually, but psychologically, too.

You said "YOU PEOPLE"....

[Msterbeau]

And the chart shows that we can do just fine without Iraqi oil. Do you think having the military deployed for half a decade is worth any amount of oil we can get from Iraq? Between the Navy transports, tanks, supply vehicles, and aircraft, we are probably burning more oil being there than we're shipping out. Trading in a ratty old dollar bill for three shiny new quarters is not good economics. Oil might be a subsequent benefit but it is definitely not the reason.

I have no reply. Go ask W.

[Rev.Reverence]

The symbol is supposed to be the representative OF the concept.

When you see the Star of David, you see Judaism. When you see the cross, you see Christ. When you see the stars and stripes, you see the United States of America.

To disrespect one is to disrespect the other.

That's why they're symbols in the first place, they represent a specific thing.

NO...a symbol is a reminder of a greater thing...perhaps Obama did not NEED a SYMOBOL to remind himself of WHY HE WAS DOING WHAT HE WAS DOING!?!?!?!

Star of David=man & woman conjoined...in other words G*D...(union)...(a man & woman find G*D through discovering each other)..

Cross = Jesus dieing & resurrecting..he was a gift from G*D....a way to find G*D

Do you not see the similarities? SO...to disrespect the one does nothing to the other...but they are the same thing.

Look around..a piece of cloth can represent this place to you?

..I can not understand why Obama can take so much flak for this when WELL over half the flags I see flown around here are weather worn & torn...often looking more like a bizarre assortment of rags on a stick...& IT SICKENS ME....that a person (not you) can gripe this same gripe & have a "flag" that looks like the colors had already been separated (like when you PROPERLY dispose of "Retired Colors")....& DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE NIGHT TIME DISPLAYS!!!

Why should this guy have to give up ANY confounded pomp & circumstance?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FREE COUNTRY YO!

(& I prefer the ORIGINAL FLAG!)

[freydis]

You said "YOU PEOPLE"....

no, silly phee, i said "you, of all people"

BRAT.

[n0Mad]

I have no reply. Go ask W.

Fuckin A. If I tried my shiny quarter analogy on him he'd probably say it was good economics because three is bigger than one, then go off chasing shinies. Damn, maybe it is about oil after all and he's really that stupid.

Save us Obama-Kenobi. You're our only hope.

[bean]

Disclaimer: This is me posting, not the eternal. While it is an eternal-length post (on a light day), it is written in my style, not his, mmkay?

This will likely piss off some of you. That's your choice, but I've HAD IT with this shit.

This election has really showed people's true colors, and it makes me sick. It makes me horribly ashamed to call myself an American. I like living in this country because of all the different people I come into contact with daily. People of different races, ethnicities, sexual orientations, religions, etc. Yes, some of them I don't particularly care for, but that doesn't mean they need to be subjected to insults and slander.

This election has brought out some really racist, bigoted, ignorant behavior and I am so fucking sick of it.

-Obama is not a muslim. Stop watching Fox news, ok?

-The world is not going to end because Obama was elected, ok?

-Obama is going to have to clean up the huge fucking mess Dubya left behind, ok?

-Obama is not going to raise taxes unless you make more than $250,000 a year. In that case, I'm sorry, but you can afford to pay a bit more.

-Obama is not going to take your guns away. Chill the fuck out. Seriously. Go shoot something, it'll make you feel better.

I'm sorry that I give a shit about my fellow man and want money to go towards programs that help those that are less fortunate - another "sin" of the democrats: giving 2 shits about our fellow man.

Apparently, helping those who are less fortunate is "socialist." I thought that was just being a decent human being. My bad.

For those who do not want funding for programs that help others:

I hope you get laid off and can't find a job in this shit-hole economy. Then I hope your house gets foreclosed on because you can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job. Then I hope you get sick and can't afford to go to the doctor to get a prescription for a $10 antibiotic that would help you feel better within 24 hours. Then maybe you'll know what it's like to need help.

Not everyone that receives assistance is some lazy substance abuser. Bad shit happens to good people, and those people need help.

Do I think that some people abuse the system? You bet your ass I do, but that doesn't mean that these programs should be discontinued, or lose funding.

Stem cells (oh snap, hot button issue) are NOT taken from aborted fetuses. Again, stop watching Fox News. They are taken from embryos that are within a certain age that were going to be discarded anyway at fertility clinics. Stem Cell research could end up helping many people.

Prop 8 in California: I'm sad that it passed. I hope that the day comes when gays will finally be accepted. There was a time when people of different races were banned from marrying each other. Some even said that such a combination was "against g-d." People say that about being gay, that it's "against g-d." I view that sort of thinking as intolerant and ignorant, and it deeply saddens me.

What has a gay person ever done to you? I can tell you that straight people have done more harm to me than any gay person ever has.

We are taking a step backwards, and it frightens me.

While I have some very serious issues with McCain and his choice for VP, I will say that he gave a very good concession speech last night. He was very diplomatic and encouraged his supporters to now support their President elect.

Now that this is over, can we find it in ourselves to be decent human beings and treat each other with respect, instead of dog shit that we find on the bottom of our shoe? Is that possible?

[n0Mad]

(& I prefer the ORIGINAL FLAG!)

I'd vote for that.

[freydis]

NO...a symbol is a reminder of a greater thing...perhaps Obama did not NEED a SYMOBOL to remind himself of WHY HE WAS DOING WHAT HE WAS DOING!?!?!?!

Star of David=man & woman conjoined...in other words G*D...(union)...(a man & woman find G*D through discovering each other)..

Cross = Jesus dieing & resurrecting..he was a gift from G*D....a way to find G*D

Do you not see the similarities? SO...to disrespect the one does nothing to the other...but they are the same thing.

Look around..a piece of cloth can represent this place to you?

..I can not understand why Obama can take so much flak for this when WELL over half the flags I see flown around here are weather worn & torn...often looking more like a bizarre assortment of rags on a stick...& IT SICKENS ME....that a person (not you) can gripe this same gripe & have a "flag" that looks like the colors had already been separated (like when you PROPERLY dispose of "Retired Colors")....& DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE NIGHT TIME DISPLAYS!!!

Why should this guy have to give up ANY confounded pomp & circumstance?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FREE COUNTRY YO!

(& I prefer the ORIGINAL FLAG!)

You cant see the significance--the difference--between an average citizen disrespecting the flag, and a prospective leader (who is considered the commander in cheif of its armed forces) not showing respect for it? What that *says*?

[Rev.Reverence]

No, it would be a more accurate analogy that you would expect someone wanting to be the pope to respect the cross. When the symbol IS a significant symbol of office, there are certain behaviours you expect, and deem appropriate or inappropriate.

And you of all people I would think could appreciate the significance of symbols. Not just materially or spiritually, but psychologically, too.

I understand what you are saying...but Obama is trying to do some "changes" & part of HIS symbolism is to not wear the flag (which probably got him a few votes from REALLY hard to reach crowds) & not hold his hand over his heart for the national anthem...(I do agree that dusty old thing NEEDS to go...it is GREAT for History & what-nots... but the WORLD sees us as "the dudes with BOMBS in their fav song"....not what he wants to do...

AGAIN I SAY...I thought it was a free country...

NOW...ya'll explain to ME why wearing a FLAG means that you "RESPECT" that flag...can not a person LIE about such a thing?

[phee]

I am going to have to agree with Rev here...

A symbol does represent a thing, but if the thing it represents changes, but the symbol is still used then I can see not respecting the symbol anymore...

For example if say.... there was a symbol of a Golden Donut that a group was using to promote love, peace, and magical pastries... and for a hundred years thats what the Golden Donut meant.... but then an evil man took over the Golden Donut group and caused death, mayhem, and violent acid reflux but still used the Golden Donut as his symbol... The symbol itself would change in what it represents, and those who used to admire the Golden Donut may not want to give it praise or respect anymore until another benevolent ruler (who may not have respected the symbol at the time of the Evil Golden Donut) of the Golden Donut group was in power.... does that make sense?

[freydis]

....and another thing. Just because i dont particularily like the dude *doesnt* make me a racist.

and it infuriates the *fuck* out of me when it is stated or implied that because i dont, i am.

I'M NOT.

My dislike of the man has come from his actions, his statements, and some of the things he stands for.

I DON'T CARE WHAT FUCKING COLOR HE IS.

[phee]

Disclaimer: This is me posting, not the eternal. While it is an eternal-length post (on a light day), it is written in my style, not his, mmkay?

This will likely piss off some of you. That's your choice, but I've HAD IT with this shit.

This election has really showed people's true colors, and it makes me sick. It makes me horribly ashamed to call myself an American. I like living in this country because of all the different people I come into contact with daily. People of different races, ethnicities, sexual orientations, religions, etc. Yes, some of them I don't particularly care for, but that doesn't mean they need to be subjected to insults and slander.

This election has brought out some really racist, bigoted, ignorant behavior and I am so fucking sick of it.

-Obama is not a muslim. Stop watching Fox news, ok?

-The world is not going to end because Obama was elected, ok?

-Obama is going to have to clean up the huge fucking mess Dubya left behind, ok?

-Obama is not going to raise taxes unless you make more than $250,000 a year. In that case, I'm sorry, but you can afford to pay a bit more.

-Obama is not going to take your guns away. Chill the fuck out. Seriously. Go shoot something, it'll make you feel better.

I'm sorry that I give a shit about my fellow man and want money to go towards programs that help those that are less fortunate - another "sin" of the democrats: giving 2 shits about our fellow man.

Apparently, helping those who are less fortunate is "socialist." I thought that was just being a decent human being. My bad.

For those who do not want funding for programs that help others:

I hope you get laid off and can't find a job in this shit-hole economy. Then I hope your house gets foreclosed on because you can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job. Then I hope you get sick and can't afford to go to the doctor to get a prescription for a $10 antibiotic that would help you feel better within 24 hours. Then maybe you'll know what it's like to need help.

Not everyone that receives assistance is some lazy substance abuser. Bad shit happens to good people, and those people need help.

Do I think that some people abuse the system? You bet your ass I do, but that doesn't mean that these programs should be discontinued, or lose funding.

Stem cells (oh snap, hot button issue) are NOT taken from aborted fetuses. Again, stop watching Fox News. They are taken from embryos that are within a certain age that were going to be discarded anyway at fertility clinics. Stem Cell research could end up helping many people.

Prop 8 in California: I'm sad that it passed. I hope that the day comes when gays will finally be accepted. There was a time when people of different races were banned from marrying each other. Some even said that such a combination was "against g-d." People say that about being gay, that it's "against g-d." I view that sort of thinking as intolerant and ignorant, and it deeply saddens me.

What has a gay person ever done to you? I can tell you that straight people have done more harm to me than any gay person ever has.

We are taking a step backwards, and it frightens me.

While I have some very serious issues with McCain and his choice for VP, I will say that he gave a very good concession speech last night. He was very diplomatic and encouraged his supporters to now support their President elect.

Now that this is over, can we find it in ourselves to be decent human beings and treat each other with respect, instead of dog shit that we find on the bottom of our shoe? Is that possible?

I *heart* Bean water... a lot... thank you miss

[n0Mad]

While I have some very serious issues with McCain and his choice for VP, I will say that he gave a very good concession speech last night. He was very diplomatic and encouraged his supporters to now support their President elect.

Now that this is over, can we find it in ourselves to be decent human beings and treat each other with respect, instead of dog shit that we find on the bottom of our shoe? Is that possible?

Can I hug you? I totally agree.

Obama was not my first choice but he is who America has accepted so like it or not, we're stuck with him for four years. So, you can bitch, whine, and moan about it, or you can accept what has passed and give him the best support you can so he can accomplish the most difficult job in the world. He was elected by just over half the nation but represents us all. As long as he remembers that, he deserves our support. If you don't like it, congressional elections are in two years so get out there and vote.

[freydis]

I am going to have to agree with Rev here...

A symbol does represent a thing, but if the thing it represents changes, but the symbol is still used then I can see not respecting the symbol anymore...

For example if say.... there was a symbol of a Golden Donut that a group was using to promote love, peace, and magical pastries... and for a hundred years thats what the Golden Donut meant.... but then an evil man took over the Golden Donut group and caused death, mayhem, and violent acid reflux but still used the Golden Donut as his symbol... The symbol itself would change in what it represents, and those who used to admire the Golden Donut may not want to give it praise or respect anymore until another benevolent ruler (who may not have respected the symbol at the time of the Evil Golden Donut) of the Golden Donut group was in power.... does that make sense?

You are a golden fruit loop.

But seriously.

The arguement doesnt make much sense to me.

[Rev.Reverence]

You cant see the significance--the difference--between an average citizen disrespecting the flag, and a prospective leader (who is considered the commander in cheif of its armed forces) not showing respect for it? What that *says*?

...I'll state it plainly.....some people do not practice Idolatry.....& some peoples DO consider that to be such. (mostly folks in the more fringey parts of the 3 Abrahamic Religions)

[n0Mad]

For example if say.... there was a symbol of a Golden Donut that a group was using to promote love, peace, and magical pastries... and for a hundred years thats what the Golden Donut meant.... but then an evil man took over the Golden Donut group and caused death, mayhem, and violent acid reflux but still used the Golden Donut as his symbol... The symbol itself would change in what it represents, and those who used to admire the Golden Donut may not want to give it praise or respect anymore until another benevolent ruler (who may not have respected the symbol at the time of the Evil Golden Donut) of the Golden Donut group was in power.... does that make sense?

Can we use Mooby instead?

[freydis]

Can I hug you? I totally agree.

Obama was not my first choice but he is who America has accepted so like it or not, we're stuck with him for four years. So, you can bitch, whine, and moan about it, or you can accept what has passed and give him the best support you can so he can accomplish the most difficult job in the world. He was elected by just over half the nation but represents us all. As long as he remembers that, he deserves our support. If you don't like it, congressional elections are in two years so get out there and vote.

so...... its not ok to bitch and moan about someone getting elected you didnt like and didnt vote for, but its ok to rant about the current president?

heh.

if the dude does us some good, i give total props to him.

i just didnt vote for him, and think our country's problems arent going to go away magically, or that we have elected some sort of panacea. i'm holding my breath. i just hope itll all come out ok.

[bean]

P. fucking S.

Why has everything become centered around gun control? Has Obama mentioned anything about taking away guns? Did I miss the speech were Obama said:

"As President, I plan to take away everyone's guns?"

I mean COME ON. As President, Obama will have a hell of a lot more important things to worry about, like, oh, I don't know, the economy, our troops in Iraq, health care, oh yeah, and THE ECONOMY.

[Rev.Reverence]

Can we use Mooby instead?

Idolatry...

[bean]

....and another thing. Just because i dont particularily like the dude *doesnt* make me a racist.

and it infuriates the *fuck* out of me when it is stated or implied that because i dont, i am.

I'M NOT.

My dislike of the man has come from his actions, his statements, and some of the things he stands for.

I DON'T CARE WHAT FUCKING COLOR HE IS.

I'm not talking about people who don't like Obama. There are people that don't like Obama for political reasons. I know that.

I'm talking about the people that flat out call him the "n" word and hurl other insults at him because of his race.

[freydis]

...I'll state it plainly.....some people do not practice Idolatry.....& some peoples DO consider that to be such. (mostly folks in the more fringey parts of the 3 Abrahamic Religions)

oh, hell.

im not talking about idolatry. or even slavish obeisance.

just a little respect for your symbol of office, of the country the position is supposed to be in charge of. If you think so little of the symbol of the country youre in charge of, what are you saying to your people? like it or not, the minds of the people pick up on symbolism. You have to mind what you say and do if youre in the public eye. Thats a fact of politics.

[freydis]

I'm not talking about people who don't like Obama. There are people that don't like Obama for political reasons. I know that.

I'm talking about the people that flat out call him the "n" word and hurl other insults at him because of his race.

Thank you for clarifying (although I have run into that from others, and it made me ill).

As for people acting that way? That makes me ill, too.

[phee]

You are a golden fruit loop.

But seriously.

The arguement doesnt make much sense to me.

The point being... no one... not even a potential leader, should have to stand by a symbol if that symbol has COME to represent something they don't agree with.... The American Flag, for example... no matter what it was, or will become... if it stood for raping puppies and and skinning babies, I would not stand for it.... however if I became leader and therefore restored its good associations, that is different