Outrage Follows Ruling That Teachers Can Have Sex With 18-Year-Old Students

[TitsMcGee]

A Washington court's ruling this week that teachers can legally have sex with their 18-year-old students is sparking outrage among parents, psychologists and sex therapists.

A three-judge panel of the Washington Court of Appeals on Tuesday ordered the dismissal of a case brought against Matthew Hirschfelder, a former choir teacher at Hoquiam High School who was accused of having a sexual relationship with an 18-year-old student in 2006, when he was 33.

Hirschfelder, who resigned in 2007, denied the relationship. But his lawyer challenged the charge against him, first-degree sexual misconduct with a minor, arguing that an 18-year-old is not a minor. The Court of Appeals heard the case after a lower-court judge refused to dismiss it.

With Tuesday's ruling, the appeals court unanimously agreed that the state law banning sex between teachers and students is "ambiguous," because 18-year-old students are not legally minors. The appeals court reversed the lower court's ruling and ordered it to dismiss the charges.

Prosecutors say they have not decided whether they will appeal the ruling to the state Supreme Court.

"I'm shocked and surprised," Connie Severson told FOXNews.com. "They're going to be teaching our students and the last thing you want is sexual relations on their mind."

Severson, whose son Stephan is a junior at Hoquiam High School, said the ruling has "opened up the eyes of other parents" in the district.

"This shouldn't be OK," she said. "They are teachers. Every one of them should know better."

Severson said the ruling could dissuade parents from enrolling their children within the Hoquiam school district.

"I'm hoping from a parent's perspective that when my daughter is 18 and dating that she's not having a relationship with her teacher," she said. "This is not college, it's not a university, this is high school."

Dr. Judy Kuriansky, a clinical psychologist and sex therapist, said the ruling sends a "very bad message" to students and teachers alike.

"Normally I would respect what the courts have to say, but this is a highly inappropriate message and one that is potentially dangerous," Kuriansky told FOXNews.com. "This is where ethics come in conflict with the law."

Kuriansky said the trauma that can be associated with such a relationship can last long after early adulthood.

"It can be very traumatic and be buried and repressed in their minds, and then emerge 10, 20 or even 30 years later when there is some kind of trigger or similar experience," she said. "It has the potential to create tremendous tension and trauma."

Dr. Yvonne K. Fulbright, an author and sex educator, said other potentially troubling scenarios could arise and become somewhat acceptable due to the ruling in Washington. One such scenario, she said, would be a female student who is vying for the attention of an older male teacher.

Having a relationship with an older man could be seen as a status symbol, she said, but "It can certainly rob a person of their natural growing-up process and having first experiences with someone their age."

Overall, Fulbright, who writes the SEXPert column on FOXNews.com., said young women who have sexual encounters with older men typically become sexually active sooner, which can lead to reproductive issues.

Despite the court's ruling, Hoquiam High School Principal Mark VandenHazel said it's still not acceptable for teachers to engage in sexual conduct with 18-year-old students.

"Regardless of whether it's a criminal act or not, you do this as a teacher and you're just not going to have a job," VandenHazel told FOXNews.com. "We have zero tolerance. If you want to continue teaching, don't even think about it."

Rich Wood, spokesman for the Washington Education Association, echoed VandenHazel's comments.

"A teacher who has an inappropriate relationship with a student is subject to losing their certificate and getting kicked out of the association," Wood told FOXNews.com. "It is grounds for never teaching again in this state — that's not affected by [the Hirschfelder ruling]."

State legislators have already introduced a bill that would make it a felony for teachers to have a sexual relationship with a student who is between 16 and 21 years old. A conviction would carry a mandatory minimum of five years in prison.

"The expectations of parents when they send their kids to school is that they get an education and not be groomed for some quid pro quo relationship that might occur," said Rep. Larry Haler, who introduced the bill Tuesday. "The message [the ruling] sends is one that basically says that there's really nothing wrong with this kind of behavior by school staff, or even on the part of students.

So what they are saying is that a consenting adult in college cannot sleep with another consenting adult if that person happens to be one of their teachers? Frankly I'd like to know why the fuck is it anyone elses business.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think high school teachers should be diddling their students, but once you are in college the rules should change a bit.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

[contents of post redacted]

[Msterbeau]

Hmmm...

http://www.ageofconsent.com/washington.htm

RCW 9A.44.093

"(1) A person is guilty of sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree when the person has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with another person who is at least sixteen years old but less than eighteen years old and not married to the perpetrator, if the perpetrator is at least sixty months older than the victim, is in a significant relationship to the victim, and abuses a supervisory position within that relationship in order to engage in or cause another person under the age of eighteen to engage in sexual intercourse with the victim."

The Age of Consent in Washington is not 18. It is 16. The statute (shown above) that you are making reference to makes it a crime for a person 60-months or older than the younger person to have sexual intercoarse with the younger person if ALL of the following conditions exist:

1-The older person is in a "significent" relationship with the younger person, AND the older person is in a supervisory relationship within that relationship, AND uses that supervisory position in order to have sexual intercourse with the younger person.

This statute refers to relationships between persons who become sexually involved 16 or 17-years-olds, and who are in a position of authority over the younger person and use this authority to gain a sexual advantage. Such a situation might exist between a 16 or 17-year-old student and a teacher or coach who is at least 60 months older.

EDITOR: We agree and are revising our entry.

It would still, however, be a good idea to keep the red "18" there, because Washington has another statute, entitled: "Communicating With a Minor For Immoral Purposes," which has been used to selectively prosecute individuals who communicate with persons under 18 for purposes deemed "immoral." The penalty for a 1st offense is up to a year in jail, and for a 2nd or subsequent offense (or for any person who has previously been convicted of any sex offense in the United States) the penalty is up to 5 years in prison. Just ASKINBG can, under certain circumstances, land the offender in jail or prison. As the purposes of all "Age of Consent" laws are not to "protect" children, but, rather, to protect the family, it is not at all surprising that many states that have ages of consent that set the ages below 18 have hidden within their codes other laws that can be used to set a defacto Age of Consent of 18.

EDITOR: We have found references to this law in the areas where we searched - but could NOT find this law. Anyone that could get us the RCW number for this one would be appreciated.

The following was updated 07/2000

The age of consent entry for the State of Washington was changed to "16/18" in July, 2000,

BECAUSE:

Washington enacted a law similar to Florida in which a person 16 or 17 may consent to

sexual activity with a person not more than 59 months (4 years 11 months) older. (For example

it is illegal for a 21 year old to have sex with a 16 year old; it is illegal for a 22 year old to

have sex with a 17 year old).

Therefore the age of consent at which a person may consent to sexual activity without

reservation is 18.

[Slogo]

It may not be ethical, but it's sure as hell not illegal

[StormKnight (1)]

My college's policy with relations between teachers/professors/college employees and students was that if the faculty or staff has no say in the degree you were working on, they were not discouraged.

In the military, you can not have a relationship with a subordinate (i.e., officer dating an enlisted person,) and they back it with bad discharges and jail time. The term is Fraternization. Socialization, (relationships between enlisted superior and lower rank or higher officer vs. junior officer,) was only allowed if they weren't in your direct chain of command.

Of the two described, I believe Fraternization paradigm should apply to a high school teacher and any student. There is no way that a teacher can't have a influence on any given student. Unlike college, where you have a dedicated major and avoid entire parts of the college after the general education requirements, there is potential for that high school teacher to teach and influence any student.

While not a violation of the law, it is definitely a violation of ethics and abuse of position.

[TitsMcGee]

My college's policy with relations between teachers/professors/college employees and students was that if the faculty or staff has no say in the degree you were working on, they were not discouraged.

In the military, you can not have a relationship with a subordinate (i.e., officer dating an enlisted person,) and they back it with bad discharges and jail time. The term is Fraternization. Socialization, (relationships between enlisted superior and lower rank or higher officer vs. junior officer,) was only allowed if they weren't in your direct chain of command.

Of the two described, I believe Fraternization paradigm should apply to a high school teacher and any student. There is no way that a teacher can't have a influence on any given student. Unlike college, where you have a dedicated major and avoid entire parts of the college after the general education requirements, there is potential for that high school teacher to teach and influence any student.

While not a violation of the law, it is definitely a violation of ethics and abuse of position.

I know I'm going to get shit for this BUT...seeing as the guy was the Choir teacher, I really don't see her sleeping with him to get an A. I mean can you really fail choir? But 18 or not in high school it shouldn't be done.

[StormKnight (1)]

I know I'm going to get shit for this BUT...seeing as the guy was the Choir teacher, I really don't see her sleeping with him to get an A. I mean can you really fail choir? But 18 or not in high school it shouldn't be done.

Nah, no shit from me.

Regardless of what he teaches, he does have an influence and rank over the students, and I believe does violate a Fraternization paradigm.

[Slogo]

I've got it bad, got it bad, got it bad.

I'm Hot for Teacher

[Goth Brooks]

Most states have laws that specifically state that teachers are not allowed to have sexual relations with any student in the school they teach, no matter what the age. I'm too lazy to see if Michigan is one of 'em.

[n0Mad]

Most states have laws that specifically state that teachers are not allowed to have sexual relations with any student in the school they teach, no matter what the age. I'm too lazy to see if Michigan is one of 'em.

Yes. Michigan has some sort of "position of authority" clause. I'm too lazy to look up the text and provide a link though.

[phee]

Yes. Michigan has some sort of "position of authority" clause. I'm too lazy to look up the text and provide a link though.

I like that postion, it is a nice change from missionary position every once of a while.

[Scary Guy]

That bill is a bit extreme. However there should be mandatory job loss and THE STUDENT SHOULD BE EXPELLED AS WELL. It should stop people from fucking for better grades they don't deserve. If there is real love there then they can wait until after the student is out of school.

[Msterbeau]

I like that postion, it is a nice change from missionary position every once of a while.

[TygerLili]

If both parties are over 18 then it shouldn't be a legal issue. At all.

I personally think all schools, including colleges, should have a rule that if an instructor is caught having sex with a student they can be penalized up to and including being fired, but that should be part of the teaching contract and have nothing to do with the courts.

And, once again, I think it's up to the parents to teach their children that having sex with an authority figure, whether it's a teacher, professor, boss, political leader, etc. is a very bad idea.

[torn asunder]

"I'm hoping from a parent's perspective that when my daughter is 18 and dating that she's not having a relationship with her teacher," she said. "This is not college, it's not a university, this is high school."

wtf? oh, i see... you can't have sex with a teacher your senior year of high school, but the next fall, you can sleep with your college instructors! make perfect sense!!

[jynxxxedangel]

Any teacher who would date a student has emotional/mental issues.

'Nuff said.

[Goth Brooks]

Any teacher who would date a student has emotional/mental issues.

'Nuff said.

Date?

[Oh_My_Goth]

It may not be ethical, but it's sure as hell not illegal

I have to go with you on this one.....

[Oh_My_Goth]

That bill is a bit extreme. However there should be mandatory job loss and THE STUDENT SHOULD BE EXPELLED AS WELL. It should stop people from fucking for better grades they don't deserve. If there is real love there then they can wait until after the student is out of school.

Somehow I don't think love is very often involved