Typical "Not in my backyard" behavior from our elected officials

[TitsMcGee]

Feinstein: Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels

Sen. Dianne Feinstein said development of solar and wind facilities in California's Mojave Desert would violate the spirit of what conservationists had intended when they donated much of the land to the public

WASHINGTON -- California's Mojave Desert may seem ideally suited for solar energy production, but concern over what several proposed projects might do to the aesthetics of the region and its tortoise population is setting up a potential clash between conservationists and companies seeking to develop renewable energy.

Nineteen companies have submitted applications to build solar or wind facilities on a parcel of 500,000 desert acres, but Sen. Dianne Feinstein said Friday such development would violate the spirit of what conservationists had intended when they donated much of the land to the public.

Feinstein said Friday she intends to push legislation that would turn the land into a national monument, which would allow for existing uses to continue while preventing future development.

The Wildlands Conservancy orchestrated the government's purchase of the land between 1999-2004. It negotiated a discount sale from the real estate arm of the former Santa Fe and Southern Pacific Railroad and then contributed $40 million to help pay for the purchase. David Myers, the conservancy's executive director, said the solar projects would do great harm to the region's desert tortoise population.

"It would destroy the entire Mojave Desert ecosystem," said David Myers, executive director of The Wildlands Conservancy.

Feinstein said the lands in question were donated or purchased with the intent that they would be protected forever. But the Bureau of Land Management considers the land now open to all types of development, except mining. That policy led the state to consider large swaths of the land for future renewable energy production.

"This is unacceptable," Feinstein said in a letter to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar. "I urge you to direct the BLM to suspend any further consideration of leases to develop former railroad lands for renewable energy or for any other purpose."

In a speech last year, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger complained about environmental concerns slowing down the approval of solar plants in California.

"If we cannot put solar power plants in the Mojave desert, I don't know where the hell we can put it," Schwarzenegger said at Yale University.

But Karen Douglas, chairman of the California Energy Commission, said Feinstein's proposal could be a "win-win" for energy and conservation. The governor's office said Douglas was speaking on the administration's behalf.

"The opportunity we see in the Feinstein bill is to jump-start our own efforts to find the best sites for development and to come up with a broader conservation plan that mitigates the impact of the development," Douglas said.

Douglas said that if the national monument lines were drawn without consideration of renewable energy then a conflict was likely, but it's early enough in the planning process that she's confident the state will be able to get more solar and wind projects up and running without hurting the environment.

"We think we can do both," Douglas said. "We think this is an opportunity to accelerate both."

Greg Miller of the Bureau of Land Management said there are 14 solar energy and five wind energy projects that have submitted applications seeking to develop on what's referred to as the former Catellus lands. None of the projects are close to being approved, he said.

The land lies in the southeast corner of California, between the existing Mojave National Preserve on the north and Joshua Tree National Park on the south.

"They all have to go through a rigorous environmental analysis now," Miller said. "It will be at best close to two years out before we get some of these grants approved."

Feinstein's spokesman, Gil Duran, said the senator looks forward to working with the governor and the Interior Department on the issue.

"There's plenty of room in America's deserts for the bold expansion of renewable energy projects," Duran said.

Ya the desert is nice and all, but I think we need the energy that can be provided more than the prettyness of it.

[StormKnight (1)]

Very typical of California, I am afraid. I saw this when I was in Northern California. They want all the benefits, but none of the consequences.

[candyman]

Actually, with the new technologies we have today, which are not endorsed by anyone, the fields of solar panels and wind turbines ARE a stupid idea.

Solar panels are great, but instead of huge fields of them taking the place of an energy station, the strenghts of solar panels are in their ability to be great as SUPPLEMENTS. Public light fixture and utilities are almost all powered by conventional means and changing them to being powered by small solar panels would go unnoticed by people except for the people that see the drop in price.

Wind turbines, are fine if in small groups, but the cost to build and maintain them is VERY high. This is especially a concern when they are applied to conditions like deserts where conditions are very dry, hot, and SANDY. They do not like this and it would probably raise the maintainance costs.

The best option in this situation is to play the strengths of many different solutions using them all as supplements to convetional power. This will allow the use of small groups of there technologies reducing the amount of skyline pollution. It will also allow the conventional power plants to run at a much lighter load with will greatly reduce their pollution output.

Algae...research it. In short it eliminates almost all of pollution from Natural Gas power plants and will provide us with a quickly renewable product that offers many different and useful end products.

People should change their conventional bulbs to LED or neon bulbs. Their wattage use is INSANELY low and their lifetime hours range from 10,000 hours to 100,000 hours which is far longer than any other light source other than the sun.

Also, look up how salt, yes salt, can be used for power. It would only require a small amount of solar panels and would generate tons of electircity with steam being the only "pollution" and no need for fields of solar panels.

In short I do agree that people need to buckle down and accept things. However, things are not as bad as they want us to think and the "solution" they throw around, while good in small doses, are nothing more than pipe dreams and have already been proven wrong. These fields of wind generators and solar panels are only green for one reason...MONEY...the money that the taxpayer sends and the money that the governement and vertain special interest groups recieve.

It would be a horrible sin, no matter what damn religion, to kill the desert because we can't change how we do things. I hate this fucking green movement!!! Seriously, tell me what section to put it in and I will start a thread on green technologies that really do save you money, reduce how much energy you lose and use, and that do not change WHAT you do just HOW you do them.

[Scary Guy]

I've said it for a long time. If you put solar panels on all government buildings (I'm not even saying all the buildings, just the government ones) you'd get a ton of energy.

By government buildings I mean schools, fire/police stations, jails, court houses, etc...

Other fun things are thermal power, and wind power (but put them under bridges and in tunnels like they have at DTE).

[TitsMcGee]

I'd like to point out that the last major thing that came out of that desert was the Manson family.

[Scary Guy]

I'd like to point out that the last major thing that came out of that desert was the Manson family.

YES! Wasn't that not just fucking awesome? Without them we wouldn't have all those neat sound-bytes in industrial music of Charlie and Marilyn Manson would be Marilyn Dahmer or something like that.

[candyman]

I'd like to point out that the last major thing that came out of that desert was the Manson family.

So...with that kind of thinking why should we care about the rest of the earth? I'm just so sick of those poles we have in the north and south...all they do is melt and freeze...

And an ecosystem that we could never get back along with the benefits it provides when it comes to climate change...and I don't mean global warming either...

Shit, why don't we just cover Mexico in solar panels? They aren't really using the country and they get more sun. We could also try putting the wind generators somewhere that has: Alot of wind, alot of mechanics, and awesomen cleanup crews...

[Rev.Reverence]

I'd like to point out that the last major thing that came out of that desert was the Manson family.

*AHEM*

Mojave desert was MY last residence in California...

...& if these ass-hats can't make some more fuckin' windmills fit out there they'll be suckin'...like some tortises are gonna' care if there are some towers spinnin'....jeesh!

[Rev.Reverence]

So...with that kind of thinking why should we care about the rest of the earth? I'm just so sick of those poles we have in the north and south...all they do is melt and freeze...

And an ecosystem that we could never get back along with the benefits it provides when it comes to climate change...and I don't mean global warming either...

Shit, why don't we just cover Mexico in solar panels? They aren't really using the country and they get more sun. We could also try putting the wind generators somewhere that has: Alot of wind, alot of mechanics, and awesomen cleanup crews...

Mojave has PLENTY of wind..that's why they picked there.

Mojave is also a major seat for the Aerospace & Aviation industries...enough mechanics..k..they thought of that.

Mojave is in California...there are alot of activists that would LOVE cleaning up after the repair crews...

Sounds like they have an answer..some peoples just don't think we can harvest WIND without tearing up EVERYTHING around it...well..there are great stretches of FUCKING-NOTHING right there...in between 2 mountains..so as that you will ALMOST ALWAYS know what way the wind will be blowing. (Windmills rotate..but the further they rotate, the more repairs they need..& the more expensive they are to make in the first place...

Love to be a help! K..by!

[candyman]

Mojave has PLENTY of wind..that's why they picked there.

Mojave is also a major seat for the Aerospace & Aviation industries...enough mechanics..k..they thought of that.

Mojave is in California...there are alot of activists that would LOVE cleaning up after the repair crews...

Sounds like they have an answer..some peoples just don't think we can harvest WIND without tearing up EVERYTHING around it...well..there are great stretches of FUCKING-NOTHING right there...in between 2 mountains..so as that you will ALMOST ALWAYS know what way the wind will be blowing. (Windmills rotate..but the further they rotate, the more repairs they need..& the more expensive they are to make in the first place...

Love to be a help! K..by!

I know that they could possibly work.

My point is that it has been proven that you do no need a giant wind or solar farm somewhere. My godfather got called back to work for the city of Milwaukee to help them go green because he was the head electrical engineer a few years ago. They have been installing small solar panels on every single public light fixture. Awesome results. They have installed SMALL wind generators on public buildings as SUPPLEMENTS to grid power. Awesome results. They have installed shit burners, yes they burn human waste, if a few locations. Awesome results. All of the things they have done have been SMALL and you would be hard pressed to notice them without knowing about them and you would still have to climb around and search for them. Even thought they are all small changes, they work very well and have already dropped the rate at which power is consumed. Already the city is looking at making a few power relay stations dormant because they are not needed unless an emergency occurs.

Even nuclear power is looking better. Recent advancements draw more power from the reactors and have developed methods of neutalizing the waste.

Also, many smaller towns like mine have been called out on the fact that they have many small dams that still have power generators...that are not being used. Many of these generators could easily be turned on AND because they design is so simple and their construction so easy they could be used in many other locations.

[Rev.Reverence]

I know that they could possibly work.

My point is that it has been proven that you do no need a giant wind or solar farm somewhere. My godfather got called back to work for the city of Milwaukee to help them go green because he was the head electrical engineer a few years ago. They have been installing small solar panels on every single public light fixture. Awesome results. They have installed SMALL wind generators on public buildings as SUPPLEMENTS to grid power. Awesome results. They have installed shit burners, yes they burn human waste, if a few locations. Awesome results. All of the things they have done have been SMALL and you would be hard pressed to notice them without knowing about them and you would still have to climb around and search for them. Even thought they are all small changes, they work very well and have already dropped the rate at which power is consumed. Already the city is looking at making a few power relay stations dormant because they are not needed unless an emergency occurs.

Even nuclear power is looking better. Recent advancements draw more power from the reactors and have developed methods of neutalizing the waste.

Also, many smaller towns like mine have been called out on the fact that they have many small dams that still have power generators...that are not being used. Many of these generators could easily be turned on AND because they design is so simple and their construction so easy they could be used in many other locations.

..they have been bitching back & forth about Mojave for over 20 years..that's all I'm sayin'.

The activists keep stopping the progress of a larges scale wind farms...but turn around & bitch about the nuclear plants the next week...it is stupid to stop the wind farms..they could power from Sacramento south with JUST WIND...that's what I read years ago anyhow.

[candyman]

..they have been bitching back & forth about Mojave for over 20 years..that's all I'm sayin'.

The activists keep stopping the progress of a larges scale wind farms...but turn around & bitch about the nuclear plants the next week...it is stupid to stop the wind farms..they could power from Sacramento south with JUST WIND...that's what I read years ago anyhow.

I completely understand the problems here.

If people want I could start a thread about going green. I have done many report on it, my godfather is doing alot of work the that area in Milwaukee, and I help out with a company back home that has gone almost completely green. I would probably give a list of resources and options that are not well know. I could also answere any questions and give advice on how to help without spending much and wasting time. Also, my friends and I travel around and collect piles of used wood from barns along with used plastic and metal that we then used to build furniture and other things that we then sell to people that want cheap, cool looking furniture that they know contains anywhere from 50%-100% recycled materials.

I will only make a thread if people want it though...people have to open their minds and be willing to listen. That includes that that don't believe in doing anything green AND those that are hardcore...because both sides have gone too far with their ideas.