Now I think I have seen it all

[freydis]

Its a subtle, complicated point, easily turned into a straw-man. But, its a serious point to ponder only easily dismissed if one refuses to research the actual details and instead rely on gut-reaction ideology and declare we know best without doing any homework. Not that I know what the right answer is, but it is not simple as we would like.

Ideology that we all share (it should be our choice) does not seem to be borne out by the research, in that it is not just a simple matter of "a choice." in many cases. I'm also not advocating more of this kind of stuff (or even agreeing with it) but it is a more complicated question than just what our gut-instinct ideology tells us.

If we assume that the government has the right to restrict deadly things as "illegal", I don't mean the happy meal , i just mean that principle. Is it within the rights of good government to cut our access (or remove it) from deadly substances? If so how much? We live in what is termed a "toxic food environment" and after so many hours of unabashed onslaught all but the most dogged people will succumb to death-by-food without "wanting" it in the traditional sense. The mass media pressure to eat like a pig from cradle to grave cannot hope to be overturned by the paltry number of adults that survive and educate themselves about proper nutrition (and are serious enough to pass it on to their children) its a MASSIVE undertaking to re-train people to eat properly after being constantly trained by the food industry to eat poorly. Personal choice is not as absolute as we might like to belive. We are products in many ways of our culture, like it or not its just reality.

Everyone reading this I'm sure is smart enough and "strong" enough to make their own choices, but masses of humanity just going about their daily lives are not, and will not become good eaters by sheer-willpower and will die early and their children will die early due to being educated by the food industry. The parents were once kids as well, and they too are generally uneducated or unable to overcome the same pressures.

I'm all for near anarchic levels of personal freedom, but given that most of us are not, and despite rhetoric most vote with their votes not with their rhetoric, society as a whole has long shown a preference for safety over freedom, real or perceived, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately depending on perspective).

Again try not to turn this into a straw man and read up on how this actually plays out , its not a simple "rights of man" type thing in the way it might seem on the surface.

There's a lot of research that goes behind advertisement.

Until you really read up on it, you dont notice how much advertisers and manufacturers play on habits and instincts. Advertising is all about manipulation.

That said-- did you know there's already a lot of consumer protection laws already in effect? These arent new ideas by a long shot, folks.

[Glory13666]

Fast Food joints actually target kids just like tobacco companies....get 'em hooked early, get 'em hooked for life. Think about the motives behind each of the parties. The government trying to make the law is trying to protect people. The Fast Food industry opposing the law is trying to make money. Which one is the more noble cause? I do take my kids to McDonalds but rarely. I do it in the winter time so they can use the play place if it's really too cold outside or if we've already been outside for an hour and need to warm up but they still need to play.

[LadyKay]

. Something has to be done....probably many somethings. Anybody have any suggestions?

If you have children. Then someone from the government needs to follow you around at the grocery store to keep on eye on what foods you are buying. Make sure no Oreos or cheese chips get into your shopping cart. Also they need to stop by your house on surprise visits to see if your child is outside running and playing in the yard or if they are sitting all day watching tv.

[Glory13666]

If you have children. Then someone from the government needs to follow you around at the grocery store to keep on eye on what foods you are buying. Make sure no Oreos or cheese chips get into your shopping cart. Also they need to stop by your house on surprise visits to see if your child is outside running and playing in the yard or if they are sitting all day watching tv.

I agree with you to some extent. Of course it's not really feasible to have a government official following you around the store but how about making it so that pop, cookies and candy cannot be purchased with people's food stamps. The government gives people that money to buy their family food, they should not be allowed to spend it on pop or candy but those items are allowed.

[candyman]

Fast food companies still target children on a very regular basis... tobacco no longer do so because of countless lawsuits unless the kids are in the gas stations starting directly at the signs that are often small and obscured by other objects. Fast food and alcohol are advertising all over magazines, sides of trucks, billboards, radio, and on TV...hell its even nuts in the movies...

And have people follow you around to check on how you are raising your children? I believe they tried that in Auschwitz and a few of the Jewish slums during WW2 but that didn't work out too well. If you have children YOU raise them and don't raise other people's children unless there is obviously a problem in which case you could talk to them and NICELY suggest ways to improve the situation.

[Msterbeau]

Yeah, I know and for the most part people are good. There's just a few bad ones and the good ones that just plain make mistakes. God knows I'm guilty of doing stupid shit.

I think you give a lot of people too much credit. There are plenty of people out there who lie cheat and steal to make a living. There are many more who do things like manipulate impressionable children and uneducated, lazy parents to make a buck and likely think there's nothing morally wrong with that because it's "marketing" or some other socially acceptable term. It's certainly debatable but I come down firmly in the "that's bad" camp.

[freydis]

Fast food companies still target children on a very regular basis... tobacco no longer do so because of countless lawsuits unless the kids are in the gas stations starting directly at the signs that are often small and obscured by other objects. Fast food and alcohol are advertising all over magazines, sides of trucks, billboards, radio, and on TV...hell its even nuts in the movies...

And have people follow you around to check on how you are raising your children? I believe they tried that in Auschwitz and a few of the Jewish slums during WW2 but that didn't work out too well. If you have children YOU raise them and don't raise other people's children unless there is obviously a problem in which case you could talk to them and NICELY suggest ways to improve the situation.

i think she was being facetious....

[freydis]

....and why do people on this forum keep bringing up Hitler and Nazi Germany??? WTF???

[candyman]

....and why do people on this forum keep bringing up Hitler and Nazi Germany??? WTF???

Actually I really hate that "law" considering it is abused a little bit. Yes I actually have had someone use it on me during a discussion about WW2 GERMANY FOR FUCKS SAKE!

It's almost like we let the evil live on in its own untouchable little bubble...we just roll over and let them keep sacred symbols, their old stomping grounds, anything they touched or might have touched...

We learn from history no matter how much it sucked and that is all history and those people helped to create that history. Godwin's law only seems to apply when it is convenient for the other person to pull out that card you put up a picture of.

[LadyKay]

If you have children. Then someone from the government needs to follow you around at the grocery store to keep on eye on what foods you are buying. Make sure no Oreos or cheese chips get into your shopping cart. Also they need to stop by your house on surprise visits to see if your child is outside running and playing in the yard or if they are sitting all day watching tv.

I was being sarcastic when I wrote this. But I also see it has having a bit of truth. How much more of our lives will we allow big brother to control. Will a time come when what I said about them following you around the grocery store checking what is put into your shopping cart ever come? Maybe not. But then I never thought the government would try to outlaw happy meal toys. Also a point I was trying to make is why is fast food being demonized? Fast food is not the only reason kids is fat. I see this has a complete waste of time and money that will solve nothing. In the end there will still be fat kids with no happy meal toys to play with. Kids who are overweight tend to have parents who are overweight. My guess is because the parents do not know what is good for them to eat or don't care anymore then the kids do. Kids eat the food that their parents buy. Maybe they could look into teaching better nutrition habits in school health class. Starting at kindergarten level and on up. As I believe that education is a better solution to the problem then just more government control.

[freydis]

Actually I really hate that "law" considering it is abused a little bit. Yes I actually have had someone use it on me during a discussion about WW2 GERMANY FOR FUCKS SAKE!

It's almost like we let the evil live on in its own untouchable little bubble...we just roll over and let them keep sacred symbols, their old stomping grounds, anything they touched or might have touched...

We learn from history no matter how much it sucked and that is all history and those people helped to create that history. Godwin's law only seems to apply when it is convenient for the other person to pull out that card you put up a picture of.

I understand when the reference actually makes sense.

When its constant, melodramatic usage, it wears on the nerves. Thus, Godwin's Law.