My husband just came home with a rant....

[Paint it Black]

Last time I checked, we have the first amendment in this country.  I'm not sure how his rights were infringed.  He could have freely spoken up within all limits of legality, but the question arises...is it worth it?  Depends on your personality and temperament I suppose.

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The First Amendment limits only what the government can do. Basically Congress cannot make any law infringing on the freedom of speech.

There is no free speech on this forum, since it is privately owned and operated, there is no 'right' to say what you want here as long as the owner doesn't want it said.

Same applies to the work place of a private business. If they don't want you to talk about religion, they can limit those discussions.

The fine line is drawn when it can be proven a business is treating you unfairly because of your religion or lack thereof, but that is more of a civil rights issue than a freedom of speech or freedom of religion issue.

[The_Dark]

Same applies to the work place of a private business. If they don't want you to talk about religion, they can limit those discussions.

You are correct, Congress can't make a law that prohibits religion or free speech.. and a private company has to abide by the laws set forth by congress. Therefore, to be "fair" to everyone and repsect thier rights, congress has laws that say just how companys can limit free speech. Those laws say that it's either everything or nothing. The company can not legally allow Christian speech if it does not allow pagan speech.

[Paint it Black]

I don't see why your husband was so upset over it.

It certainly seems the guy doesn't know much about witchcraft, but how many 'average' joe's really do? And are we to expect everyone to know the in's and out's of everything so as to not offend someone? Witchcraft is such a small minority in this country that to many people not exposed to it, it's going to seem bizarre and weird. That's the attraction of it for some and thats what puts many off as well.

There is a difference between not wanting his daughter to room with a witch and not wanting his daughter to room with a black person, for instance.

Race and religion are different things. Racial differences mainly has to do with genetics while religious differences have to do with ideas and philosophies.

It seems like the man had reason to worry. Maybe he raised his daughter to be Xian his whole life and didn't want to see it lost in one semester? (understandable)

Maybe he was just having a bad day and was just ranting himself?

Hard to pass judgement when we are only going off of hearsay about the fear of heresy.

[Guest Game of Chance]

The First Amendment limits only what the government can do. Basically Congress cannot make any law infringing on the freedom of speech.

There is no free speech on this forum, since it is privately owned and operated, there is no 'right' to say what you want here as long as the owner doesn't want it said.

Same applies to the work place of a private business. If they don't want you to talk about religion, they can limit those discussions.

The fine line is drawn when it can be proven a business is treating you unfairly because of your religion or lack thereof, but that is more of a civil rights issue than a freedom of speech or freedom of religion issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feeling a little like Michael Corleone in The Godfather, Part III here. I tried to get out, but they keep pulling me back in.

I still feel its a self-esteem issue. Not everyone thinks the way you do. Get over it.

But getting on topic, since that's what we're here for, please read the original post. Tell me where there was something that sounded like HH's husbands rights were infringed upon. I'm done. One of the things that I'm specifically not here for is to argue politics or religion. That's the Dark's job.

[Paint it Black]

Feeling a little like Michael Corleone in The Godfather, Part III here.  I tried to get out, but they keep pulling me back in.

I still feel its a self-esteem issue.  Not everyone thinks the way you do.  Get over it.

But getting on topic, since that's what we're here for, please read the original post.  Tell me where there was something that sounded like HH's husbands rights were infringed upon.  I'm done.  One of the things that I'm specifically not here for is to argue politics or religion.  That's the Dark's job.

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I don't think his right's were infringed on in any way.

[soothsayer]

I tried to read every post here and I may have missed this. I'd like to say it could be possible that the child in question felt uneasy and asked her father to remove her from the dorm room. Now I realize that has nothing to do with free speech in the work place but I think it could make some difference.

As for the free speech portion, as many of us may already realize, while yes we are suppose to have free speech in this country we sadly do not. In the work place we, either out of respect for others or fear, curve many of our thoughts and words. It happens all the time. I'm not saying it's right just that it happens. Some of us find out that when having spoken freely and someone in authority disagrees or some how a rule is violated there will be consequences.

I think HH's husband might have thought about saying something and would've been within his rights to do so, but didn't want to risk a back lash from his words/beliefs. I think it's sad but its a fact we must live with everyday and everywhere.

We do not have free speech. =(

That's my two cents.

[float]

So along those lines it would be alright for me to say that your race (using the loose and ignorant definition of the word) is inferior to my race in the workplace correct?  People have a right to disagree yes, but there's a fine line between disagreeing and harassment that violates civil rights in the workplace.

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nobody was attacking anyone's race, or anything else for that matter. As far as this particular story goes, one guy said to another guy: "I pulled my daughter from her dorm because I was worried about the influence her roomate might have over her" (paraphrased...of course)

how is that attacking? or harrasment?

It just sounds like a conversation

[Vater Araignee]

....who pulled his daughter out of a dorm room at college.  Why?  Because she was rooming with a bi-sexual witch.

Of coarse my husband had to bite his toungue...he IS married to such and raising such type people.

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I feel for you considering I know very well about having to hide your religion at work.

Those that would condemn your husband for not speaking up don't understand reality.

All the laws of the land wont protect your job if you cant prove the real reason you got fired.

Especially if you have an at will contract but even if your in a union shop.

[Lilith]

....who pulled his daughter out of a dorm room at college.  Why?  Because she was rooming with a bi-sexual witch.

Of coarse my husband had to bite his toungue...he IS married to such and raising such type people.

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Well the daughter should have never told her daddy that her room mate is a bisexual witch, frankly it is none of daddy's bussiness what sexual orientation of any one is or there religion, shit its not liek she was going to marry the chick or any thing just use the same room for one year. :doh

On a side not does that Bi witch still need a new Roomie???? :whistling

lilith

p.s. Unless it was your hubby's boss (which i can understand cause i really dont ever get to personla with a boss just keeps my job safe) i dont think i would have bitten my tounge, I would have informed the closed minded daddy of the good a bi witch can do and tried to stop the ignorance cycle.

[Homicidalheathen]

I am just glad I raised my kids so that....by college age I am sure they will be able to handle rooming in a atmosphere of diversity......

And....

You can actually get fired legally for eating ham???? Where is the justice.....

[The_Dark]

I'm done. One of the things that I'm specifically not here for is to argue politics or religion. That's the Dark's job.

It is? I want a job review and a raise damnit. WAit a second... I want my back pay too....

[Paint it Black]

Do kids raised as 'witches' rebel when they get to be teens and become Jehova's Witnesses or something?

[Shade Everdark]

Maybe they are actually *gasp* well-adjusted.

Of course, a Wiccan fundamentalist is no different from a Christian fundamentalist or a Muslim fundamentalist. It's just that I don't seem to see as many Wiccan fundies.

[Paint it Black]

Maybe they are actually *gasp* well-adjusted.

Of course, a Wiccan fundamentalist is no different from a Christian fundamentalist or a Muslim fundamentalist.  It's just that I don't seem to see as many Wiccan fundies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably because there are not nearly as many Wiccans.

Also, Wiccans don't seem to push their religion on other people, like Xians and Muslims tend to do quite a bit, which wins cool points in my book.

Bottom line is, people are people no matter what they believe. There are going to be asshole wiccans and asshole christians and asshole muslims and asshole athiests.

People are the problem, always have been, always will be.

[Marblez]

I am not even going to pretend that I read all of the above. I don't have the time in this sitting, but this is my take on such matter:

Parental rights - As long as I am not abusing him, I have a right to raise my child in the manner that I see fit. If this means diminishing his exposure to someone that I consider to be a bad influence - so be it. It is within my rights and RESPONSIBILITIES as a parent.

Blabbing at work - If I tell a coworker about my reasons for removing my child from the zone of influence of this person, I had better be ready to take my lumps if that person relates to the person that I am withdrawing my child from. I'd be pretty ignorant to bring it up near someone that I didn't know well enough to know if they were sympathetic in either direction. I am comfortable that no laws would be broken or punitive action should be taken as long as I did not have the firsthand knowledge that they were sympathetic.

Speaking out - If Mr HH tended to wear his love for bisexual wiccans on his sleeve and feels that he is being knowingly personally assaulted, he should speak up without any fear of reprocussion and the management should be involved. I doubt however that this is the case. It is not the same as a fat/blonde/black/mexican/hari khrishna that is forced to endure fat/blonde/black/meican/hari khrishna jokes all day. Likely, this part of his personal life is not discussed at work and others do not know until he tells them that this would be taboo to discuss in front of him.

Free Speech -Dealing with intolerant people is frustrating, however, we all have to pick our battles. Freedom of speech is fully intact. Mr. HH would have been fully free to speak his mind. He made a conscious decision to take the silent route blow off is steam elsewhere. Good choice.

What would society be like if everyone felt completely comfortable saying whatever happened to occur to them? I tell you what - go to any generic chat room and enjoy. Freedom of speech afforded by the Government is freedom to speak against the state. Freedom to discuss controversial topics like oh ... anal fuck fests. It is not freedom from losing your job for stirring up trouble or getting your ass kicked by a coworker for calling their lover a dirty name. We have other laws for that - but the job market sucks and the beating still hurts.

[Fierce Critter]

Anyone who thinks that - just because it's "law" - people arent fired over their religious beliefs is either incredibly naive or lying to themselves.

It happens all the time. By many methods. I've seen it, and I've experienced it.

Basically, I think the only way to get around it is to institute a "no religious exhibitionism/discussion" rule of some kind in the workplace. No displaying of symbols like crosses or pentagrams, no bringing up like subjects in company-related meetings, etc. Don't ask, don't tell.

But we all know how well that works for the U.S. government, so fuck it all to hell.

[Homicidalheathen]

I totally agree with this. Not my last boss but the one before that....(god does that make me sound unstable work wise? Heh heh.) Had this thing where she only wanted to hire christian republicans. I had to act like I was dumb and didn't care about pollitics since I would get hot under the collar when she would try to get us to vote for Bush.

Anyone who thinks that - just because it's "law" - people arent fired over their religious beliefs is either incredibly naive or lying to themselves.

It happens all the time. By many methods. I've seen it, and I've experienced it.

Basically, I think the only way to get around it is to institute a "no religious exhibitionism/discussion" rule of some kind in the workplace. No displaying of symbols like crosses or pentagrams, no bringing up like subjects in company-related meetings, etc. Don't ask, don't tell.

But we all know how well that works for the U.S. government, so fuck it all to hell.

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