The_Dark - if you so choose to continue the debate

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Unemployment is at 5% which is pretty low, wages are relatively high as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

5% is not low when this number does not include people unable or unwilling to work. That's roughly 10,000,000 willing and able workers, without work. How is this figure low? Wages are high, because prices are going up. That's just inflation, and says nothing about our quality of life.

[Black Sunday9]

5% is not low when this number does not include people unable or unwilling to work.  That's roughly 10,000,000 willing and able workers, without work.  How is this figure low?  Wages are high, because prices are going up.  That's just inflation, and says nothing about our quality of life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but inflation is at 3.17%, which is only slightly higher than the Clinton years, Unemployment is about the same - using the same methods to calculate unemplyment. The only way you can eliminate inflation is thru a gold standard. In 2002 we actually saw "deflation".

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but inflation is at 3.17%, which is only slightly higher than the Clinton years, Unemployment is about the same - using the same methods to calculate unemplyment.    The only way you can eliminate inflation is thru a gold standard.  In 2002 we actually saw "deflation".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was only suggesting that our wages are reflective of inflation. I'm not sure what you consider a good wage though either. Personally, I think a single man should make at least $20/hour just to shit comfortably, and even then may find budgeting his money difficult. Do you have any statistics on credit card debt in America? How about overall debt per individual in our labor force? How many people do you know that can pay their mortgage, utility bill, credit card bills, phone bills, etc, while still keeping up with everything else they need or want, on time as is warranted on the statements when they arrive? How many senior citizens do you know that have worked their asses off their whole lives, and are now reaping the benefits of their toils?

[The_Dark]

Perhaps people should start living within thier means rather than within thier credit score. If you take out a $100,000 loan against your house to give it a makeover that only ups it's value 10% and then go on vacation.. it's your own damn fault you cant afford to pay it back. Put the damn credit cards down for a change.... If you don't need it, dont buy it.

[The_Dark]

unable or unwilling to work

Those unable to work... well... How is that the governments fault?

and those unwilling... they need to get off thier lazy asses and get a job.

[Paint it Black]

not work or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its probably the lack of the "/" in the

[/quotes] thats messing up the quoting feature.

Comment on the term "mocking"  mocking = slightly less abrasive form of direct insult.  Cut me some slack, just stop the insulting responses.  If you dont like someones line of reasoning, just explain why you dont like it without the insults please.  If you cant do that, then just take a deep breath, and dont respond at all.  Make it easy on us poor mods. 

Other than the random barbs here and there, this has been a great thread to be honest.  Lots of long-detailed posts.  At its best i think this is what DGN is good for.  =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I figured out what I was doing wrong. Thanks.

[the eternal]

for the record, Im tired, not feeling particularly angry, so if you find this post to be confrontational as opposed to observational, that was not the intent

However, I too think Bush messed up the war on several fronts.  I didn't vote for Bush in either election but I think the anti-Bush people are hysterical, I mean, I think they deal in hysterics.  People have called Bush a fascist but he on no level meets the definition of a fascist and people who use that word have no idea what real facism is,

Ok now I am getting off the subject.

First of all, Troy, I think maybe some of us are just retarded on the whole quote thing, because I have trouble with it too. That said, I will be on the lookout for missing /s.

And while you're at it, could you figure out a way to allow us to copy things OUT of this site.

Some of you have some really intelligent things to say, and when I try to cut and paste it into a word document, it looks like a few squiggly lines,

(which is strange since I can cut and paste FROM a word doc INTO this site.

Oh, and Troy, could you get me a turkey sandwich on rye? I'm kinda hungry.

Oh, right, the original point of my post.

So, I'm breaking my cardinal rule to not engage BS9(we had a silly personal fight awhile back if youre wondering), but since Im on his ignore I think were safe (Dont tell him alright)

BS9 makes a good point about fascist hyperbole.

It's fun to see on a bumper sticker or whatnot, but at the same time Ive always had misgivings about it.

See my people were almost destroyed by fascism and so, I know a bit about the subject and the old Rush is Reich thing always provoked a muted chuckle.

That said, I do thing we should acknowledge that there are machinations at work in the present administration that take a page from the old fascist playbook.

Control by fear.

Controlling the message (and yes I could go into details about how the white house press corps is much more Ws lapdog than any previous administration)

Control through promotion of blind patriotism.

This is the most secretive admin. in history.

The FOIA is severely under attack through the re-classification of documents/files that normally would be for public viewing.

There are many Orwellian aspects to the Patriot Act.

Civil liberties are suppressed in the name of security.

There was actually a study done a couple years ago that highlighted the basic tactics that were the foundation to Hitler's(and to a greater extent fascism's) success.

And I'll be honest, the Bush admin. uses every one of them.

This is NOT to say there'll be a boxcar with my name on it any time soon.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

But it is to say, W and his inner circle did look at these fascist methods and have used them to sell everything from the war on terror to the multi-billion dollar giveaways to already profitable oil/energy corporations.

And I find that highly immoral.

One thing I hope we can agree on is that he's a maverick.

That's what people like about him.

I dont think hes pure evil. I mean I thinks he's doing what he feels is right for this country.

But when you call 2/3 of the world's pop. a "focus group" to dismiss (as he did with the onset of the war) it's fairly clear

he really doesnt care what anyone else's opinions are

(and when the only opinion that matters is your own, that does smack of fascism )

His whole attitude toward every issue has been

"I know what I know"

and let's be honest, when the facts tell a different story (not nec. the war-any of his cause celbres)

you could use a fascist tactic or two to keep the populace in line.

"If this was a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."- George W Bush