So you want a Revolution?

[Guest Game of Chance]

Former singer for Op Ivy (for all you old-schoolers)

http://www.punkvoter.com/guest/guest_detai...uestColumnID=15

[Black Sunday9]

I like the idea that a few people have about socialism on this board, as if they refuse to actually look at statistics like GDP and PCI. In theory Socialism and communism are great, in practice - well - alot more Europeans move to America than vice versa - for a reason.

Even paper Hearts friends Depeche Mode and Morrissey moved from the UK to the U.S.

As for Operation Ivy, I've noticed a trend of many newer punk-ska-emo bands moving to the right politically (like the South park guys - which are called South Park Republicans even though the South Park creators - forget their names - are libertarians). Protest marches are obviously a joke.

[The_Dark]

I like that piece...

[Msterbeau]

Interesting. I can't disagree with most of what he says, although I don't like the implications of "fighting dirty" as he puts it. As much as I recognize that the winner is usually the one most willing to do whatever it takes,(ie. "commitment") I think that that is a basic difference between (most) liberals and conservatives; The willingness (Or lack thereof) to compromise principles to meet a goal.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Interesting.  I can't disagree with most of what he says, although I don't like the implications of "fighting dirty" as he puts it.  As much as I recognize that  the winner is usually the one most willing to do whatever it takes,(ie. "commitment") I think that that is a basic difference between (most) liberals and conservatives;  The willingness (Or lack thereof) to compromise principles to meet a goal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you actually believe that any successful public figure got where they are without some amount of "playing dirty"?

[Dollardave]

I thought I was your hero. Anyways Operation Ivy used to be sweet man I never got to see them but did get to see when they became Rancid. I liked the song bankshot by op ivy the best. Plus I liked the vigilante sidekick song by rancid.

[Msterbeau]

Do you actually believe that any successful public figure got where they are without some amount of "playing dirty"?

Nope. And that's what's really sad. Call me an idealist, but I think that sucks.

[holliwood66]

Hmmm, I still whip out the old Op Ivy vinyl ever so often...but anyway.

Yes, some good points: and I do love Capitalism/$$$$ so no arguments there.

heh, in Ann Arbor it is the leftists who have the uber $$$ and they still sit on their collectivist whiney heinies mouthing discontent. Not that this is good indication of how anything in the RW works...the vast buried alien spaceship leaching radioactive contamination into the air in Ann Arbor insures bizarre behavior all around.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I thought the article was pretty interseting... one point that jumped out at me was that he was upset that the "left" doesnt have its own "Fox News".... i wonder if he has ever heard of CBS, NBC, or ABC.... the right all seems to think those 3 networks cater to the left...

Second, you cant mix Anarchism with Communism/Socialism... thats the main problem I have had with the "Neo-Anarchist-Punks".... they claim they are anarchists, but want the government to give them somthing (like the WTO protestors in Seattle, who claimed to be anarchists demanding government aid).

on to a second point, there are many many many rich left wing people.... they are just not demonized by the media as much as rich right wing people are (who are of course much more greedy.... Left wing people get rich because they are so nice and sweet and give toys to poor children etc... while right wing people only ge rich by stomping on the dignity of man... and by killing any small cute fuzzy thing they see)

finally.... I would just like to point out that More true anarchists (ones who knew more about anarchism than "its this cool red letter "A" thing that we add to our punk costume to make us more cool") were killed by Communists and leftists than anything else.... just read into the Spanish Civil war... thats where Anarchism truely died at the hands of the soviets and their Spanish stooges (even George Orwell wrote about it in his memiors when the Soviet communists came after his own group the POUM... who were Trotskyites (oh the horror of being a Trotskyite rather than a Lenninist)

uggghhhhhhhhhh This is what you get when you pay enough money to hate politics with a passion.... (even with a near 4point... politics still sucks once you get all the backstory behind the cool red letters)

the disgruntled political scientist formarly known as Zhuk

[Guest Game of Chance]

Aye. You may be right about a few things there.

I know a lot of punks/hippies that would do well to read this article and really take it to heart. Money changes things a lot faster than bombs. Or protests for that matter.

btw...lmfao at your sig line

[Homicidalheathen]

Mark is MY hero.... :whistling

Nope.  And that's what's really sad.  Call me an idealist, but I think that sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

Aye.  You may be right about a few things there.

I know a lot of punks/hippies that would do well to read this article and really take it to heart.  Money changes things a lot faster than bombs.  Or protests for that matter.

btw...lmfao at your sig line

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right... and since the left in the USA gave up fighting for causes with the end of the SLA and Weather Underground..... I guess they are limited to marches and what not :-(

FIghting dirty is relative and only limited by ones, ambition, values, and commitment. The Irish have a saying and it goes kind of like this:

We will win either by the ballot box or by the cartridge box.

Though since they are still trying, I guess they have not won yet....

[Guest Game of Chance]

Bump...because I really liked this thread.

[Rayne]

Operation Ivy. Hell yeah!

I'm playing "Jaded" right now.

I *heart* punk music. I have a bunch on vinyl LP's.

Rancid is one of my favorite punk bands.