Anne Rice turns to Jesus

[phee]

exactly.

At some point - hopefully somewhere along teh line we would be wiling to investigate what prompted a change of values and commitment as opposed to calling what we think we see from the outside.....

Glad we agree

[Shade Everdark]

Frankly, I don't have enough information to make a judgment.

If she's sincere in her...um...conversion, more power to her. It won't engender any interest from me in her works though. (I read 1 1/2 of her works, and was not interested at all.)

[Scary Guy]

I am not a Christian... But I hate it when somebody in th "Goth" community decides that if someone (Ann Rice) stops writing in a specific genre, and changes their spiritual beliefs, they are considered "Brainwashed" or "Gone Crazy" I am sure that if there was a Christian that decided to not be Christian any more and become "Goth" then there would be a fair amount of people in the Christian community who might consider that individual as "Crazy" or "Brainwashed." I think what it comes down to is this:

If someone changes their perspective/point of view/beliefs from something that is yours to something that you disagree with, it is easy to call them loony/crazy/brainwashed, wheather it is from "Goth" to Christian, Christian to "Goth", Republican to Democrat, etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christian = Religion

Goth = Way of Life (not necessarily related to religion)

O.K. you got me there. What I meant to say was more crazy than she already was.

There are many gothic christians out there anyhow. However I think some of them really aren't and just get mestaken from the large gothic crosses they have. I'll admit those are cool.

[Steven]

Christian = Religion

Goth = Way of Life (not necessarily related to religion)

O.K. you got me there.  What I meant to say was more crazy than she already was.

There are many gothic christians out  there anyhow.  However I think some of them really aren't and just get mestaken from the large gothic crosses they have.  I'll admit those are cool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

..... I'm not "religeous", nor do I yeild to certain religeous social norms simply because I'm told to.

Yet I'm a Christian. Practicing, walking, breathing, praying...one of "them".....

Notice something here dude: I dont tell Goths what is and is not Goth. I dont "study" Goths as a viable sub culture and then decide that I'm intimately knowledgeable, because I'm not - because it's NOT my intimate way of life. I may know alot of things about it form past expereinces and from the outside - but that dont make me Goth or any sort of Gothic Voice.

Now living as a Christian - embracing it as a way of life as oppsoed to s religeous identity tag - is also NOT what YOU do. Its what I do. I know what I'm doing, been doing it and testing it and allowing myself to be challenged by it for many years, and its not an easy walk. But I'm living my lifestyle. I live with specific intent. And specific expectation. And specific purpose. And I've paid many prices for it, beleive me.

Now - since your NOT - living MY lifestyle with intimacy - why is it exactly that your declaration is worth more value????? Because you were raised a Christian? Because of the many Christian assholes that are out there that have judged you? Because you have studied the "Religeon" of Xtianity? Studying the religion will never reveal the inner truth - it will only supply you with a limited degree of data. Being raised a Christian no more makes you a Christian than being raised a Republican makes you a good American. And the many (admittedly so) Christian hypocrites that exist do not account for someone like me - someone who like Christ - has opposed counterfieters to their face. To know what it is truly liek to be a Christian then one must become a Christian. And to become a Christian one must completely lose themselves in it and allow themselves to be recreated and that does not ahppen overnight or without great sacrifice.

By the way there are indeed many "Christian" Goths. (The Blue Rose society is a good start)

An Oxymoron to many of you possibly, or simply not a "real enough" Goth to qualify as Goth. Yet I've seen MANY Goths (non christians) also accuse one another of not being the REAL deal, or Gothy enough.

Sounds sort of like the Babtists versus the Lutherans.....

You feeling me Scary Guy?

Steven

[the eternal]

...

[DisturbedMania]

Well this was a good ploy on her part to gain interest in her new works, whether she converted or not. It got DGN talking! If I get around to picking the new book up and glimpsing through the first few pages and like it I might read it, but my current reading list is long and sewing projects come first.

[phee]

Well this was a good ploy on her part to gain interest in her new works, whether she converted or not.  It got DGN talking!  If I get around to picking the new book up and glimpsing through the first few pages and like it I might read it, but my current reading list is long and sewing projects come first.

Indeed

[Fierce Critter]

Several comments...

First off, I have often wondered why the only parts of Jesus's life we hear about are his birth, very young childhood, and the last few years leading to his crucifixion. Though I consider myself agnostic leaning towards paganism, I am a Jesusian in that I believe the man existed and was, simply put, a good person, a good role model.

So, anyway, I'd love to read a supposition on his life during the ages we DON'T hear about. Puberty and his 20's into his early 30's. I've often wondered what he did between helping his dad in the carpenter shop and sermonizing.

Another thought... I could be wrong here. But I think people react very strongly when people make these kinds of conversions/discoveries - and just drop EVERYTHING that came before. That can bring on a sense of betrayal, and a sense of judgment. Like, "I liked her for what she wrote before, and suddenly, because she's on this new path, what she wrote before now is considered 'bad', and thus if I like the old stuff, I'm being judged as 'bad'." That sort of thing.

My dad flies kites, and is involved in the competitive and artistic front that started a couple decades or so ago - competitions akin to figure skating, fighter kite battles, single-line kite displays & creation, etc. There was this guy, a paraplegic, who was involved in the whole scene in that he sewed together the most gorgeous, incredible artistic kites you've ever seen. The guy was unbelievably gifted - and if you think along these lines, given an incredible talent by God.

Now, a few years into things, he became "born again". And dropped the kite stuff cold-turkey to go to church meetings constantly. My dad, in particular, was hurt by this. My dad spent a lot of time with this guy, encouraging him, promoting him, NONE of it for personal gain - my dad had no stake in any $$ or anything, just liked to see this guy benefit from his talent, and to spread his beauty throughout the world.

How did the world benefit from this guy dropping this like he did? How was that 'serving God'? I just don't get it. And I think some people are reacting to the Anne Rice thing in the same way.

I had another thought, but I'd have to go back and re-read posts to jog my memory...

[Fierce Critter]

Personally, I like her ideas, but I think she goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far into painting the landscapes surrounding the stories (like spending ten minutes telling me all about the drapes in the library and the wood paneling on the walls) but she is very gifted and creative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was it.

I agree. She lost me with "Queen of the Damned" when action would stop for pages upon pages upon pages so she could describe stuff, or write chapter-long monologues from a single character lost in thought.

Yawn.

[Steven]

Critter (and whomever)-

why this dude dropped his association with your dad and dropped something he loved doing is beyond me. And I dont know him, dont know what he did with his time once he changed commitments, so I dont know how and when and if he was serving god....but neither do you. But if he made a bad choice - how does this negate those who make good choices?

Whatever yrou searching for - pro or con, you can easily find it and build a case. The Crusades for example, horrific death and torture in the name of Christ, only Christ himself would never have endorsed nor did he teach any of this type of action or mentality action.

But we also cannot deny that millions are fed and sheltered in the name of Christ. I myself have been in a 3rd world country with missionaries who face overwhelming odds just trying to get well water pumps to work, blankets to orphaned kids, old clothes to put on them, and most important - some way to reach across a cultural divide and let them know that just because they were left in the streets that they are not throw away children, or people. I've also seen the very same thing in the streets of Hollywood.

Also there are Thousands of Americans get their rent paid or mortgage paid - in the name of Christ. My rent has been paid this way.

Many receive life giving organ transplants - in the name of Christ. I also have personally seen this, and have seen the personal physical struggling that somone is willing to take on (for years mind you) in order to give life to a stranger, and more imporatant - Hope - to a stranger simply because they felt called by God to do it.

Theres more. Many receive mentorship and purpose - in the name of Christ. Many who have tried to kick for years, finnally can and do - via a christian community that rallies around them.

these things also exist, and many more like them everyday- things that go on

unanounced and are unseen and unclaimed - thru serving God. But if were looking to fault find, we certainly can. There is plenty of it out there.

But I'd bet that lots of those people who gave back, who still give back - also dropped things to go to church meetings. Maybe they needed it. Maybe they hungered for it. Maybe it equipped them - to do the things that they are set to do.

And maybe Anne Rice is using all of this as a ploy to sell her books, maybe your right, but maybe your wrong.

Maybe she is simply answering a call to the best of her ability in the moment - using her own personal gifts to serve that calling.

One thing is for sure - none of us here will take the flack that Anne Rice will take for her new direction. None of us on this board have to face the judgement of thousands, or even millions, etc. We get to be nice and safe in our anonymity.

And remember too that fan adoration is a completely unstable thing.

We adore that which takes us away. When it changes and no longer suits our purposes, we feel betrayed, and therefore betray the former source of our adoration.

Do you think she does not know this? She has in effect, strapped on a huge cruise missle and aimed it at her career and public worth.

Pretty gutsy if you ask me. I weonder what the rest of us would be willing to give up or risk for a calling....

Steven

[Fierce Critter]

why this dude dropped his association with your dad and dropped something he loved doing is beyond me.  And I dont know him, dont know what he did with his time once he changed commitments, so I dont know how and when and if he was serving god....but neither do you.  But if he made a bad choice - how does this negate those who make good choices? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, my dad did know what he was doing. Countless phone calls made to him to ask if he'd be at this function or that function - every time, his reason for not being there was church-related. If my dad had to meet with him for something, be it to return something borrowed, etc. - he'd have to meet him at the church. Eventually, my dad just got the point and gave up.

Not sure if you misread me, I wasn't judging Anne Rice's new path, far from it.

Just saying that what some people might be reacting to is that "everything that came before has no place in my life" action. That really confounds some of us.

[Steven]

Actually, my dad did know what he was doing. Countless phone calls made to him to ask if he'd be at this function or that function - every time, his reason for not being there was church-related. If my dad had to meet with him for something, be it to return something borrowed, etc. - he'd have to meet him at the church. Eventually, my dad just got the point and gave up.

Not sure if you misread me, I wasn't judging Anne Rice's new path, far from it.

Just saying that what some people might be reacting to is that "everything that came before has no place in my life" action. That really confounds some of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it shouldent be that way (the throwing away completly of the former life) to be honest with you Critter - it would confound anybody.

The truth is some people misunderstand what they are supposed to do - and so they move in extremes. The Apostle Paul himself said that "I become all things to all people".... that's hardly an attitude of dropping everyone and everything - its more of an attitude of learning to embrace the best in people and to be available.

But its a learned thing. And sadly some never do. Cant knock ya for this frustration, its completely reasonable.

Steve

[Scary Guy]

Yeah, just like Michael Jackson put out great music, before he was a pedophile heh.

Also I think you read a little too much on what I said Steven. Religion is a way of life based around a belief system. Goth is a way of life but not defined by any real specific rules and again in my definition is an appreciation for the darker things in life. They really don't have anything to do with eachother except for the large gothic crosses and a lot of the archetecture/designs come from the older "gothic" churches.

As far as what I believe I wasn't raised to be christian (though I did attend church for a while as a kid with my aunt on occasion). I wasn't raised to believe in any specific religion. I was raised to be a good person (I can be an asshole, but at the core I'm told I have a heart of gold... somewhere).

When I die, thats all that should matter is that I lived a good life and did the best I could. It shouldn't matter what I believe in and the way I currently believe it doesn't since I get to go into the void of nonexistance as my brain and all my memory cells fade away (tragic, isn't it?).

Though if I'm wrong (and believe me, I hope I am) I should end up somewhere good since karma really should be everyones god. Do good things and good things will happen to you in the end. I might not have faith in god or christ but I haven't given up completely. Just as a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet, a god by any other name would still be just as powerfull no matter if you call him allah, zeus, buddha, or even christ. I wouldn't want to belong to a kingdom of heaven that punished me for not believing in said particular god as there are so many good ones to pick from and as I've said before all religions have good and bad parts to them. Those that can't see the bad parts are pretty much doomed.

Then again my issue with callings is completely different. People get callings all the time. They claim that they do it in the name of god. Many wars happen in the name of god. They blew up our towers in the name of god. Serial killers have gone out and have killed in the name of god (tell me they aren't "touched" (in the head)).

I just as many others are harrassed by "good god fearing folk" because we are thought to be "evil' since they can't see the trees and just see a forest of black (thats a lovely thought, forest of black). In return most "non christan goths" (and yeah lets throw the Jews and muslems in there too) probably see christians as a sething mass of hypocritical morons. But I'm a little more open minded than that.

This isn't a thread about your faith, or mine, or critters, or Michael Jackson's. This is a thread about the beliefs of Ann Rice and nothing more. I think her "calling" is probably false and she's just born again for the sake of she's going to die soon and doesn't want to go to hell even if there is one.

Further more I could even go as far to say that she fears death and was just interested in vampires as a means to escape it (and I'll admit thats a big part of why I'm interested. However I've been interested since the age of 4 also which was before I even contemplated the concept of death). But I don't know since I don't know her that well, haven't read any of her works (I don't really considder the movies much of her works either since a lot of things are changed, probably for the better I mgiht add) or care about her at all in any way shape or form.

[The Void]

I think Anne will forever be misinterpretted and misunderstood.

I was a fan of her early works, but didn't bother much after Queen of the Damned in the vamp chronicles. I own many I received as gifts, but never read them. I have read probably ten of her books. At any rate, i think whatever subject she writes about, she's always going to be provocative about it and stir up controversy.

I really see her as the Madonna of authors. What Madonna is to her genre of music, Anne is to her genre of writing. I'm not so sure she has fallen off her rocker so much as had a life change. They also make is sound like taking a 2 year break from publishing a novel is a travesty. For fucks sake this woman has been going like the energizer bunny for a quarter century. sheesh

She also lost her husband many years back and I'm sure that changed everything as they were beyond close from interviews, stories and whatnot over the years about her and them.

I won't be getting the new book, but I will still follow and see where she goes with her writing career out of interest in her writing years ago.

[Goth Brooks]

To automatically assume that Anne Rice's new novels will suck just based on their subject matter, or just refuse to read them for said reason is a great way to jump the gun. I've heard/read satanists who have said that the Left Behind series is one of the greatest series they've ever read, so why not stop judging a book by it's cover and wait until after you've read it to decide.

If you have a true strength of faith in what you personally believe, then her new christian themes will just be another work of mythological fiction for you to possibly enjoy.

[Shade Everdark]

True enough. Problem is, I can't say I enjoyed the pre-conversion works much, either.

[Goth Brooks]

the "you" in my post was a generalization, not directed at anyone in particular.

[Wounds Within]

my apoligies, i didn't notice.

[Goth Brooks]

my apoligies, i didn't notice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my own, i didn't specify

[Saephyr]

All I know is she used to be a drunken authoress who wrote beautiful, appealing, romantic and sometimes down right brutal tales of sexuality and if she wants to cram it because of a change of heart then more power to her...

I won't read any of it. I loved the smut w/ style y aknow?

[Mistercreeps]

If someone feels a change in thier own heart then it is one that they themselves have to follow. Being christianity, paganism or any other belief they find. You can't change the way a person feels just because you want them to change for what you feel is the better. Each person feels secure in what they believe and in the end it's all how you act out in everyday life. I see so many different religions here in the same place. Sometime things like this post spark debate but you all think the same way. If someone here gets sick, hurt or dies do you not all feel the same pain? For years I have had the same debate as I have seen in this post and others like it. I go through the same arguments at work with my boss who is like a father to me. He is a born again christian. I can't speak for Ann Rice but I do know that my boss has changed alot over the years. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worst. Religion is a catchy subject that has been argued over for years. It'll never stop because nobody can see the faith the way the person themselves see it. If this change helps Ann Rice achieve happiness then who can argue with it? Isn't happiness what we all truely seek in life?

For me I'm happy being a christian. Knowing that in my heart it is the right choice for me to follow. Sometimes it's hard to be a christian goth because people put us in a set stereotype because they don't understand what it is like. Samething can be said for Ann Rice. Nobody will ever know what truely changed her. Even if she flat out tells um in and interview. You have to feel the change to understand.

[Wounds Within]

hummmm, I see that my own words for the topic title and topic description is being used on this post. Good choice if I do say so myself.

Anyway in related news to this topic, I was reading an article about The Cure where their new upcoming album which looks to be their final album ever is going to have a new "religious" sound to it as "Robert Smith has refound faith". I am not a huge Cure fan, but they do have some songs that I enjoy. It seams that many bands are now going in this direction. A trend that I personaly do not enjoy.

- Bloodied

[Scary Guy]

Faith +1 rocks!

lol

[Wounds Within]

Faith +1 rocks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

now that is hardcore

lol

[Nikki kitty]

Anne Rice's latest book is about a 7 year old Jesus, and she says she will no longer touch on her old subject matter.  story here

I'm not a fan of her style, but I thought this was interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's awesome that she's accepted God into her life. I was enchanted with The Vampire Lestat, and it's a shame that these stories won't continue, but all-in-all, good for her. Every Christian does what they think will be best in their walk. I guess that's hers.