Stay Out!!!

[Hellion]

:devil My opinion on this subject is that our unfaithful government likes to stick its nose in where it don't belong. If there is a small rebellion in a third world nation let that country deal with it on it's own, stay the f--- out of their problems!!! No wonder why almost everyone hates us because government wants to stick its nose in where it does'nt belong. Unless its a threat against us, than thats a different story, other than that quit making more problems in the world and stay the f--- out, this is my opinion and just like everyone else who is also entitled to their own opinion. The way the economy is it seems like this country might be a third world nation itself if things do not get cleaned up!! This is just my way of letting loose some anger without being vioent, Violence will solve nothing never has never will Amen.

[The_Dark]

We tried that. Then Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and "the world" begged us to save France and Britian from Germany.

[Shade Everdark]

Our "isolationism" had not a thing to do with Japan bombing Pearl Harbor. We wanted trade with China, the Japanese wanted China's resources for themselves, in the mold of colonial powers, including but not limited to, the US. We told them, "Fuck that!" and cut off their oil. Then they bombed us. They said, "Pwned!" We said, "Sif, n00bs, that r Round 1."

Personally, I think each instance needs to be examined on its own merits. There is no one solution for everything.

[The_Dark]

On that we can agree. Every situation is different.

[Homicidalheathen]

I agree but then I see those poor starving kids in N Korea and think....why doesn't someone do something????

[The_Dark]

Because we fear China and we are sworn to protect Japan and S. Korea. If we attack NK without China on our side.. we are fucked. Even with China on our side, if we attack.. NK has 40,000 15inch guns in the mountains along the DMZ... all of them can hit Soul. South Korea would get wiped off the map. NK would also at that point attack it's rival in the area.. Japan.

[paradox]

isolationism and the fear of causing violence is what lead to WWII being the cluster fuck it was. had we (the rest of the West) collectively stopped germany '36, alot of grief would have been spared. of course, the world would also be a very different place. but national interests and a fear of another world war (theres irony for ya) allowed geramany to annex other countries and parcels of land under the pretense of "uniting the german peoples" while the world looked the other way. this allowed the german military to secure vital resources and and strongholds and iron out the kinks in its "blitz" strategy. by the time england reacted, it was already too late.

isolationism (not just in the US) cost us the WWII we got.

on the other hand, our activities as a super power in the world havent been much better. korea was a shining example of exactly what The Dark mentioned. that war resulted in a stalemate, at best. nam was example part 2. we propped up a failing dictatorship in the name of the blind hope called "containment policy". in the end, the south fell anyway and what did we gain? nothing. we could have brought the war to them, but that would have brought in china and russia, and we couldnt handle that. we went in fighting to lose.

since then, we've gone about, setting up and supporting petty dictators, then knocking them down again. it keeps us busy and spending and keep a little fear in our minds, so we dont get too out of line and start criticising our government. half of the problems in the 3rd world today are thanks to our meddling. not saying that things probably wouldnt have gone down a similar path anyway, thats entirely probable, but we have done more than our share of helping dictators get and stay in power.

so messing around in other countries is pretty much as bad, but in a different way.

either way were screwed.

the economy, however, is another matter. the devestation of WWII is the only reason we are what we are today. had not europe and the far east decimated its centers of production and vast numbers of its labor force, we would never have been in the economic position of power we were at wars end. the 30 odd years after WWII, we rode that wave. now the world economy has restored itself and we are forced to face global realities once again on a more or less even footing. unless we find a way to become competative again, things are only going to get worse. all our jobs are going overseas because of the disparity in wages and quality of life but relativly equal means of production. we dont have the technological edge anymore and everyone else can work for alot less. plus the leaps made in communication have costs additional jobs, with it being just as effective to have call-centers in india as in the states.

until the cost of labor is equalized, you can look forward to even bleaker prospects. our misadventures in iraq arent really an issue. if anything, it removes some of the pressure by taking people out of the workforce. and the money thats being blown would have found another way to bleed off, im sure. it always has before.

[DarkVampire]

Because we fear China and we are sworn to protect Japan and S. Korea. If we attack NK without China on our side.. we are fucked. Even with China on our side, if we attack.. NK has 40,000 15inch guns in the mountains along the DMZ... all of them can hit Soul. South Korea would get wiped off the map. NK would also at that point attack it's rival in the area.. Japan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't say fear more like respect. We know they would bring out the bring out the big guns if we got involved with their good buddies NK.

[Shade Everdark]

isolationism and the fear of causing violence is what lead to WWII being the cluster fuck it was.  had we (the rest of the West) collectively stopped germany '36, alot of grief would have been spared.  of course, the world would also be a very different place.  but national  interests and a fear of another world war (theres irony for ya) allowed geramany to annex  other countries and parcels of land under the pretense of "uniting the german peoples" while the world looked the other way.  this allowed the german military to secure vital resources and and strongholds and iron out the kinks in its "blitz" strategy.  by the time england reacted, it was already too late.

Technically, what the Allies did with Germany wasn't isolationism. It was appeasement.

[paradox]

ignoring aggressive acquisitions of other countries. sticking their heads in the sand. avoiding treaties with other countries for fear of precipitaing another war. generally concerning themselves with themselves, or at least as much as they could.

if not proper isolationism, it was the best attempt they could make.

[phee]

:devil My opinion on this subject is that our unfaithful government likes to stick its nose in where it don't belong. If there is a small rebellion in a third world nation let that country deal with it on it's own, stay the f--- out of their problems!!! No wonder why almost everyone hates us because government wants to stick its nose in where it does'nt belong. Unless its a threat against us, than thats a different story, other than that quit making more problems in the world and stay the f--- out, this is my opinion and just like everyone else who is also entitled to their own opinion. The way the economy is it seems like this country might be a third world nation itself if things do not get cleaned up!! This is just my way of letting loose some anger without being vioent, Violence will solve nothing never has never will Amen.

I wish it was that simple... but it is not.

[The_Dark]

Violence will solve nothing never has never will Amen.

Slavery

The Holocaust

It gave you the right to say that.

Violence (war) has given us more technological advances than anything else.

Violence has solved many things, people just don't like to admit it.

[phee]

Slavery

The Holocaust

It gave you the right to say that.

Violence (war) has given us more technological advances than anything else.

Violence has solved many things, people just don't like to admit it.

I agree....

[Blackmail]

Well one thing that would help the U.S. acting as the worlds savior (sometimes the US is right, other times I believe the US is wrong) then the UN should actually enforce it's onw laws.

The UN should have done something about Saddam aside from passing seemingly meaningless sanctions. The UN should force the issue with North Korea. The UN should have been in Rwanda prior to 1995. The UN should have squashed all the beef in the former Yugoslavia in 1999. Instead the UN just sits around and talks about things and let's dictators kill people (nice job in Congo by the way UN. :innocent ).

I understand making the world a better place is very difficult. For example, you can't just go into Africa and build roads and give out medicine and food to people because warlords will steal the food and medicine and use it for their own purposes (i.e. Black Hawk Down).

But the UN does nothing about so much crap. Hell, the UN put China and Libya on the humn rights counsil a few years ago. There is massive evidence that some high ranking UN members were making illegal deals with Saddam Hussein. The UN basically shrugs off Palestinian terrorism.

Yes this is a biased site but I invite people to read this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-253.html

and even if you only believe half of it you would have to agree that many of the worlds problems could have been solved if the UN would have acted.

[DarkVampire]

Slavery

The Holocaust

It gave you the right to say that.

Violence (war) has given us more technological advances than anything else.

Violence has solved many things, people just don't like to admit it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite right.

Pacifism and "turning the other cheek" never solved anything other than letting others walk all over you.

[Shade Everdark]

Quite right.

Pacifism and "turning the other cheek" never solved anything other than letting others walk all over you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this, as well.

Gandhi is our shining example, there.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. also advocated civil disobedience.

[phee]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this, as well.

Gandhi is our shining example, there.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. also advocated civil disobedience.

It is not true that violence never solved anything.... and it is also not true that pacifism has never solved anything...