Only human after all

[Onyx]

A few acquaintances who I always looked upon as completely together and always in control have shown a vulnerability these past few days that has shocked me. It's happened more than once too. Maybe it's the season. It's Christmas eve. Easy to feel very lonely, even in a crowd or surrounded by people you know.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm going to make an effort to reach out just a little bit more. I think my lack of friends to do stuff with is partly my own fault. I reach out a few times, get my feelings hurt from one thing or another and just quit trying.

I really need more friends in my life, a larger circle of friends, and as much as I try to live a lonely gothy existence - I am more at peace when I do have a larger variety of friends, even though sometimes people can drive me nuts, heh.

Not sure why I'm posting this, but I guess the Christmas spirit has seized me today (all you uber-goths can puke now, heh heh) and just wanted to say, maybe that person you looked at as totally together and not needing any more friends was really wishing you'd say hello and want to chat a bit.

Maybe we are all only human after all.

[Ginevra]

Very good points, Onxy.

[Scary Guy]

I agree with everything Onyx said, however most people tend to piss me off or I piss them off.

I accept a dark future of solitude. Yeah even in a club full of people I am alone.

[Mikielikesit]

No man is an Island ...it is in our nature to have human contact and to have friends.....people with whom we have common likes and dislikes and ones who are the same and ones who are not. We need others as much as we say we do not we need others in our lives. We need closeness and we need adversity. We need to have some light in our lives even if we thrive in the darkness........ :fear

[Steven]

No man is an Island ...it is in our nature to have human contact and to have friends.....people with whom we have common likes and dislikes and ones who are the same and ones who are not.  We need others as much as we say we do not we need others in our lives.  We need closeness and we need adversity.  We need to have some light in our lives even if we thrive in the darkness........ :fear

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that was well Mike. I completely agree.

[Steven]

I agree with everything Onyx said, however most people tend to piss me off or I piss them off.

I accept a dark future of solitude.  Yeah even in a club full of people I am alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, Look Dude - I dont dislike you. Let's start there.

But do you ever go back and read your own posts?

Have you ever seen Winnie The Pooh?

You remind me of Eeyore.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Onyx,

This is so bold of you. I have such respect for people who realize their life is not the life they would like to live, and then actually DO something about it. And like you said, you're just going to reach out more. Sometimes, that's all it takes.

And it's a difficult thing to do, especially if you've been burned before. I'm sure this will all work out just fine for you.

Merry Christmas!

[Homicidalheathen]

Well you have us! Just invite me over!

[Scary Guy]

OK, Look Dude - I dont dislike you. Let's start there.

But do you ever go back and read your own posts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I read them, I read them when I type them and when I scroll through. I'm a large dark ray of ani-sunshine. Why do you think I've accepted my solitude. I could shut up and have friends, or dumb myself down. But I'm too smart for that and need to speak my mind.

BTW don't call me dude, it's a thing I have.

[Steven]

Yeah I read them, I read them when I type them and when I scroll through.  I'm a large dark ray of ani-sunshine.  Why do you think I've accepted my solitude.  I could shut up and have friends, or dumb myself down.  But I'm too smart for that and need to speak my mind.

BTW don't call me dude, it's a thing I have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well then explain your thing to me (the dude thing) - as there is a very good chance that I'll call you dude again, or Bro, or homie, or whatever pops out. If its a good explanation I'm sure it will sink in. If its not, well..........

So here's my question(s):

why is it that to have friends you must "dumb yourself down"???? Why dont you simply find some friends who have something to offer you i.e. raise your level of expectation?

and then the next question is - why does speaking your mind equate to not being able to have freinds? Its not like you have cancer or something that is beyond your control. You make it sound as if your intellect has elevated you beyond the grasp of normal humans.....

[Fierce Critter]

Jon and I learned the same thing.

Was a time we prided ourselves on our anti-sociability and misanthropy.

But upon returning to Michigan and CC where we used to isolate ourselves and revel in that, we now rarely find our way to the dance floor because we so enjoy interacting with people.

Yeah, a bad element of some kind can find it's way to us easier. But we can get past it in order to maintain enjoyable intercourse with others (mind-gutter-out-please ).

I wish you were closer, Onyx, so you could interact with more like-minded people. We all may not be goth 24-7 - hell, some of us aren't goth PERIOD - but we share SOMETHING in common.

I myself know I'd love to share coffee & kvetching with you any afternoon.

[Head Wreck]

us humans are pack animals.

plain and simple

its just gotten to the stage where i no longer get depressed on christmas or new years. i just get bored. rectified by hanging with my band and seeing what trouble we cause

[Steven]

Jon and I learned the same thing.

Was a time we prided ourselves on our anti-sociability and misanthropy.

But upon returning to Michigan and CC where we used to isolate ourselves and revel in that, we now rarely find our way to the dance floor because we so enjoy interacting with people.

Yeah, a bad element of some kind can find it's way to us easier. But we can get past it in order to maintain enjoyable intercourse with others (mind-gutter-out-please ).

I wish you were closer, Onyx, so you could interact with more like-minded people. We all may not be goth 24-7 - hell, some of us aren't goth PERIOD - but we share SOMETHING in common.

I myself know I'd love to share coffee & kvetching with you any afternoon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not Goth.

I'm not neccesarily "anything" in particular for that matter in regard to fitting into any particular sub culture. I'm just.... me, Steven, I do whatever I do. I actually found this site last year by accident, and was intrigued by it, and started having these conversations, and the next thing you know I sort of started hanging out here. Glad I found it. There are good people in here.

Onyx is one of my favorites.

I dont know where she lives, but she sounds far away. I hope that changes for her, because isolation, although terribly romantic, wrecks you in the end. I'm an indipendent in many capacities. Yet at the same time - I need community. Without it, I fail to learn, and to grow, and stop caring about giving back.

Christmas eve was the first time I had the pleasure of meeting any of you. Mark, Steve, and Kelly Girl...... was nice to be able to place a face to the name and to hear your voices. And it was good for me as well, because I need to get out more and mingle a bit. There are many of you in here I'd like to meet.

[Homicidalheathen]

Might I also add, it is normal to every 10 years or so.......take stock of your personal life. We change, grow. Others don't or grow in different directions. I do dump freinds and make new ones. Rarely do I find people I am friends with for 20 years or more but I a have a few. Unfortunatly at my age some of them actually start dying off.

I always get sad when I have to dump people but life does not come without pain.

[Lilith]

i am apporaching a 10 year change i think, i too need to take stock of what the hell i am doing and get it back in order..... Somtimes it is overly complicated and fear of what ever makes it hard, alos when you have people who depend on you allot or are a part of the "problem" but not really it makes it hard.

I think part of the change is to forgive youself for past disscuions that have proven to be the wrong one, perhaps it was right then but no now.... it sucks when you are the one changing and seemingly the only one and every one around you is the same and you are no longer interested in that any more.

Your not alone i think we all have been there or are working on getting there.

[Homicidalheathen]

Eeyore, the ultimate goth jack-ass. :cheerful

[Scary Guy]

well then explain your thing to me (the dude thing) - as there is a very good chance that I'll call you dude again, or Bro, or homie, or whatever pops out.  If its a good explanation I'm sure it will sink in.  If its not, well..........

So here's my question(s): 

why is it that to have friends you must "dumb yourself down"????  Why dont you simply find some friends who have something to offer you i.e. raise your level of expectation?

and then the next question is - why does speaking your mind equate to not being able to have freinds?  Its not like you have cancer or something that is beyond your control.  You make it sound as if your intellect has elevated you beyond the grasp of normal humans.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dude thing stems from the whole cowboy thing, I've got deep southern roots. Dude happens to be (or used to be at least) an insult. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude It does't say it in so many words though.

Anyhow moving right along. No one likes to have friends that are always right (most of the time at least), smarter than they are, or speaks the truth as they see it. I don't even tell little white lies, maybe thats where I'm going wrong. If I raised my level of expectation any more I'd have fewer friends than I do now. Also like I said I won't dumb myself down or change for anyone. I don't considder myself above normal humans but I am smarter than a vast ammount of the majority. Also it might as well be cancer because if I did that I wouldn't be me anymore, at least not on the outside.

Bar people don't count as friends at all, at least not good ones. Actual friends are those that take the time out to actually hang out with you (at least the way I see it). Not just saying hi at the bar because it's conviniant and they know you'll be there.

Eeyore,  the ultimate goth jack-ass.  :cheerful

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that was Egor? (sorry I couldn't help myself, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't considder him a (club) friend and we weren't on good terms).

[Steven]

The dude thing stems from the whole cowboy thing, I've got deep southern roots.  Dude happens to be (or used to be at least) an insult.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude  It does't say it in so many words though.

Anyhow moving right along.  No one likes to have friends that are always right (most of the time at least), smarter than they are, or speaks the truth as they see it.  I don't even tell little white lies, maybe thats where I'm going wrong.  If I raised my level of expectation any more I'd have fewer friends than I do now.  Also like I said I won't dumb myself down or change for anyone.  I don't considder myself above normal humans but I am smarter than a vast ammount of the majority.  Also it might as well be cancer because if I did that I wouldn't be me anymore, at least not on the outside.

Bar people don't count as friends at all, at least not good ones.  Actual friends are those that take the time out to actually hang out with you (at least the way I see it).  Not just saying hi at the bar because it's conviniant and they know you'll be there.

I thought that was Egor? (sorry I couldn't help myself, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't considder him a (club) friend and we weren't on good terms).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A) I'll try to honor your Dude request. Dont really get it (some of my friends call me Beaner) but if its important to you the I can dig that. If I slip, dont get mad, its just a slip.

B) Your right about raising your level of expectation resulting (possibly) in fewer friends. That does indeed happen. It will be up to you to decide on whether or not that is a good thing. You can have freinds taht you diametrically disagree with. For example I have many non-christian, or gay, or pagan friends that I have been rather intimate with. But it was a learned thing for both parties.... takes a bit of work to see the person outside of position. So I hope that works out for you.

C) Good example about Bar Friends. My best friends have watched me fuck up my marriage, fuck up my sobriety, fuck up my finances, and generally fuck up my image right in front of them. Many of them left. A handful stuck it out and then challenged me to up my game and fix my shit and be responsible for me. There's no way I can repay that kind of loyalty, other than try to emulate it and offer it to others. Maybe I've been a little harsh with you Scary Guy... not sure - because I challenge people that I like as well and I hope they'll challenge me.

[Scary Guy]

Maybe I've been a little harsh with you Scary Guy... not sure - because I challenge people that I like as well and I hope they'll challenge me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you have, maybe I have with you, but I'm always nice about it. Nah challenge is good, as it inspires growth and evolution.

Anyhow sorry to derail the thread and if any mods want to split this off that would be cool, though not really necessary.

Like I said, I can function alone, I just don't like to.

[Fierce Critter]

Sorry to keep the derailment going, but...

I found myself at one point in my life totally sans-friends. I had NOBODY to call for ANYTHING.

That's when I realized that I was lopping off anyone who wasn't PERFECT - a perfect friend in all ways. So I decided that I could find the "good" in person A and go to them for that, and then the same for persons B, C, D, etc.

FOr instance, if Margaret is good fun as far as sitting around the house, drinking wine & singing drunken blues songs together, that's what I'd go to her for. But if she was bad for going to bars, enjoying sarcastic repartee & bullshitting - then I'd seek Don out instead.

Of course I learned all this at a time when I ended up not being able to socialize at ALL (long story), and never really got to put it into practice.

But I have, a little, since returning to Michigan from NC. I may not be into something Jill is into, but we do share something else, and we connect on that level. Etc.

The only person I've found who is really perfect for me is Jon. And even there, there are things we don't share and enjoy together. But now I've got L. to go "girl shopping & gossiping" with, and he has J. he can go ice fishing with.

[torn asunder]

No man is an Island

i am a rock - i am an island...

and a rock feels no pain...

and an island never cries...

- simon & garfunkel

(sorry, had to do it!) :whistling :fear

[Fierce Critter]

No man is an Island...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...but Eugene is a city in Oregon.

(taken from a series of cards sold in the 70's where you could buy the card with the name associated with the person for whom you were buying it.)

[Scary Guy]

i am a rock - i am an island...

and a rock feels no pain...

and an island never cries...

- simon & garfunkel

(sorry, had to do it!)  :whistling  :fear

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That came to mind as well.

Also you can't get blood from a stone.