A Question to Ponder

[JaneDead]

i didn't read anyone's answers so mine might be like someone else's already but things like this i like to answer before i see what anyone else has to say

so no, i would not push the button:

1. i don't want to be responsible for anyone dying - good or evil or anything in between. i am not "God"/"a god" - i don't get to decide who lives or dies.

2. i don't think evil people deserve to die. i think with everything "bad" gone there would be no balance.

also i believe that people deserve a chance to change. i don't think that just because someone is "evil" they can't change or do something good in their life.

[Shade Everdark]

Ha.

I'd push it if said deity made it a stipulation that he'd cease to be right along with me.

Killing millions of people would be worth it for that alone.

[phee]

Ha.

I'd push it if said deity made it a stipulation that he'd cease to be right along with me.

Killing millions of people would be worth it for that alone.

heh

[Brenda Starrr]

I wouldn't push it. My life would be so dull if I did.

[Steven]

I find it interesting that so many people seem to feel that there s no balance without opposition. Although I can understand that to a degree, I must add that:

a) I do not value harmony more due to greater periods of disharmony

b) Fullfillment for me comes from being able to explore and reach out without limitation....I dont want a reminder of regression to be able to value whats working right, but rather a reminder that I can constantly shoot higher and push myself more. Growth makes me happy, escape just gives me a temporary stay.

c) In the end, give me some good friends, some beer, barbecue, and a couple of acoustic guitars for happy times. None of those things have anything to do with evil.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Yikes! I wouldn't push it no way - it might take me down, too!!

[n0Mad]

I'd take it apart and try to figure out how it worked.

[Zoe Means Death]

I would definately not push the button.

I agree with those who made the following points:

who knows what 'evil' specifically this diety would consider evil enough to go

and what is light without the dark?

plus a lil evil is good fun

[DarkVampire]

There is no god therefore the question is flawed.

Now if I had an opportunity to destroy “evil” by the push of a button, I would not do so. The universe would be at an imbalance, where there is light there must be darkness. Where there is love there must be hate. Where there is “good” there must be “evil”.

If there was no evil, than how would you know what good is?

[DarkVampire]

I need to agree.  Life would be boring without evil.  Where would the History channel be if it were not for Hitler?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL The History Channel would be dull and boring without it weekly viewing of Nazi Germany.

[Crazed Vampyress]

i would be worried some of my friends would be *poofed* away forever. I love those evil lil bastards...

surely *I* would be safe... right? RIGHT?!

[phee]

You do realize (going along with what The Dark said) that a Diety that would put you in that position in the first place, would by my standards be "evil"

[pharoh]

I find it interesting that so many people seem to feel that there s no balance without opposition.  Although I can understand that to a degree, I must add that:

a)  I do not value harmony more due to greater periods of disharmony

b)  Fullfillment for me comes from being able to explore and reach out without limitation....I dont want a reminder of regression to be able to value whats working right, but rather a reminder that I can constantly shoot higher and push myself more.  Growth makes me happy, escape just gives me a temporary stay.

c)  In the end, give me some good friends, some beer, barbecue, and a couple of acoustic guitars for happy times.  None of those things have anything to do with evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But if I didn't have evil Steven, I would have no reason to don this cape and tights :grin

[Steven]

But if I didn't have evil Steven, I would have no reason to don this cape and tights  :grin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that was some of your best work yet Bud....

[Brenda Starrr]

But if I didn't have evil Steven, I would have no reason to don this cape and tights  :grin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn, that's hot.

[Mikielikesit]

Exactly I agree... Evil is relative

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't push the botton just for the plain fact there is a balance of all things weather you consider them good or evil....everything has its place and everything is right were it is suppose to be.........and anyways i'd go poof too so i ain't killing me.

and i have some evil relatives does that count...........hehehehehe

[n0Mad]

And Pharoh beats me out for best answer yet. Congrats bud. That was awesome!

[Steven]

Evil is relative...the convenience of relativism in general.....

as it may possibly apply to myself then here are just a few thoughts:

If your a child predator of any sort you need to die. I'd gladly bleed you myself and then have cookies before I go to bed. In addition I'm certainly not equipped to appropriately explain relative evil to the child victim.

If you come to my home or the homes of those I love to harm them in any way whatsoever you need to die. If evil is therefore relative then so is justice. But in my home - if you come here with bad intent - you'll never go anywhere again. And beleive me I dont need a button.

If you are a career criminal eating up my tax dollars and overpopulating the penal system while demanding your basic human rights while you've made a carer out of violating the rights of others and fucking up the minds and general psyche of their children then you need to die and stop eating up my honest income. Fuck You I grew up the same way you did and I'm not in prison or a victim you peice of worthless shit.

If your a white collar criminal/politician lavishing on the beach while I struggle as an honest and hardworking american veteran to simply pay the mortgage and my heating bill I hope your dick shrivels and your ass explodes on public television thereby decimating your future lying theiving manipulative career you evil fuck and fuck you. Die and let my children live in peace. Again I lack the werewithal to explain to the next generation the relativism of why they are broke slaves who own nothing and are bred to consume and produce with no hope of anything else while you drink martinis on the yaht that the working man bought you... Double Fuck You.

If you are a career politician who seeks to take away my basic right to bear arms and speak my mind, a right I paid for and continue to pay for, well then.....come and take my guns. I'll leave the door unlocked. And when you swoop down upon my little community after removing our arms and overcome us all as has been done before by a man with a funny mustache I'll do my best to explain to the children why it's all relative while they hunt us down.

And if you are a preacher or a church who control many people but dont know the God you claim to worship and in reality threfore worship yourself and your own agenda while harming those who need help - you and I will one day stand before the throne togethor. I have tattoos and smoke too much but you'll be smoking much longer while I'm enjoying a guiness you Sanhedrin piece of shit. Fuck You.

And if your a family member with the same surname as mine and bloodline but your an evil peice of shit you and I aint nothing alike Jack and I owe you nothing nor do I desire to protect you nor will I. Fuck You.

that's a bout it for now. My attitude of course....is all relative.

[Shade Everdark]

That about sums it up, Steven, yeah.

[odims_sphere]

In the Old Testament, the Lord prescribes execution as punishment for the "crimes" of working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

I don't think there is to many of us on this board who does not fit into one of those catagories. If these are examples of "god's" definition of "evil" then there arn't very many people in the world who can actually push the button.

The God of the Bible also displays his sadistic tendencies by employing a variety of other methods to torment the innocent. He opens the earth so that it swallows entire families (Numbers 16:27-32); he causes fire to devour people (e.g., Leviticus 10:1-2; Numbers 11:1-2); he sends wild animals such as bears (II Kings 2:23-24), lions (II Kings 17:24-25), and serpents (Numbers 21:6) upon people; he sanctions slavery (e.g., Leviticus 25:44-46); he orders religious persecution (e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16); he causes cannibalism (Jeremiah 19:9); and he requires the killing of animals as expiation for the sins of their owners (e.g., Exodus 29:36).

for more on this go here

[n0Mad]

In the Old Testament, the Lord prescribes execution as punishment for the "crimes" of working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

I don't think there is to many of us on this board who does not fit into one of those catagories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a wizard. And, uh ... some other things.

[Steven]

In the Old Testament, the Lord prescribes execution as punishment for the "crimes" of working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

I don't think there is to many of us on this board who does not fit into one of those catagories. If these are examples of "god's" definition of "evil" then there arn't very many people in the world who can actually push the button.

The God of the Bible also displays his sadistic tendencies by employing a variety of other methods to torment the innocent. He opens the earth so that it swallows entire families (Numbers 16:27-32); he causes fire to devour people (e.g., Leviticus 10:1-2; Numbers 11:1-2); he sends wild animals such as bears (II Kings 2:23-24), lions (II Kings 17:24-25), and serpents (Numbers 21:6) upon people; he sanctions slavery (e.g., Leviticus 25:44-46); he orders religious persecution (e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16); he causes cannibalism (Jeremiah 19:9); and he requires the killing of animals as expiation for the sins of their owners (e.g., Exodus 29:36).

for more on this go here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough lets talk about it:

1) Exodus 31:15 commentary:

1st of all - what is exodus? it's purpose? what is being described as a theme throught this book supposedly written by Moses? What exodus is - is a written historical record of the gathering of huge numbers (thousands upon thousands - perhaps even millions) of vagabonds who have been generationally scattered, enslaved and now freed, and who's culture and identity is varied, watered down, and has taken on distinct beleifs and patterns of their conquering neighbors. These "Israelites" had multiple Gods like the Pagans, and had no internal flame and strength. YHWH rips them away from their captors, instills very rigid laws and rules, instills a very hardcore dietetic and hygenic structure, and insists on creating a NEW Generational Identity that is to be passed on to the children and their children. He must tear down and partially desroy the old to create the new - for the purpose of the future. The first rigid mindset is to be - that the Israelites worship one god and one god only, YHWH. All the other laws have their purposes as well and overall instill another common theme: I AM God - and you are not. To introduce structure and identity and spiritual community amongst so many in a relatively quick manner prior to their establishing their own territory in Cannan is a phenominal task.

2) Leviticus commentary:

let's back up a bit and read a few verses prior to the death sentence for cursing parentals. Start at verse 1, where YHWH is angry over the Israelites who had been following the paganistic child-sacrifice practices of giveing their children to Molech - a Fire diety who's worship resulted in placing articles and children in his brass hands (the idol) directly over the fire, burning them alive. At theis Point YHWH was forbidding any pagan rituals and any practices of witchcraft - punishable by death. He goes on to call those who turn to spiritists and mediums prostitutes. Remember this is a God who supposedly went everywhere before the Israelite camp by day in a pilalr of cloud and by night in a column of fire. The "CURSING" against parents warning follows the warning about child sacrifice and witchcraft. the cursing is not "Hey Dad - Fuck YOU". The cursing is a form of witchcraft. If you study scripture and cursings you will alwasy find this - curses were specifically uttered to create a supernatural outcome.

Odim's remaining 1st paragraph commentary:

More warnings about witchcraft (can we see a pattern here??) and against homosexuality and beastiality and warnings about sexual purity in general. Hardcore? Hell Yeah? Easy to understand or accept? Nope, not even for me. But also NOT easy to dismiss when in general - when you look at the first 5 books of the bible - you see what YHWH is attempting to do with so many lost people. All I can ask at this point is which one of us would have the ability to "create" a nation so quickly? What other historical comparisons can we apply to the Israelite example? None. There was a purpose to what God was intending - and it was hardcore - but I sure couldent pull it off. Apparently nobody else in history has ever repeated it.

2nd Paragraph on YHWH's sadism as described by Odim - Numbers and Leviticus and fire and bears and earth swallowing and all that fun stuff:

1st - we have a huge power struggle in teh camp, led by Korah against Moses. Although Moses has been the one setting order to all things as YHWH's mouthpeice - Korah sets up a cause to doubt Moses' authority and quickly gains supporters, creating a rebellion. What is the opposite of Order? Chaos. Moses calls his bluff and says "we'll see who God has favored". God himself has Moses seperate the rest of the camp from Korah's family and supporters - he seperates the rebellion in essance. And on Moses' prompting - swallows the entire rebellion whole in the earth. This is true. But YHWH did not do it for pleasure. A run for power was made against Moses and all that had been accomplished. In return - that rebellion was squelched with power. They were killed instantly. A true "Sadist" would have tortured them to death deliciously.

Moving On: wild animals. I encourage you to read the passages you cited. In light of what YHWH had been accomplishing in creating a new nation - why would he send out animals to cause death? Whom did he take aim against? What was their threat against what he was accomplishing? Do the homework - its all there and all consistent. And again - find me the Sadism - the needless elongated time consuming torture and death by inches.....

Cannabalism:

Question: why? what purpose was served? and why such a HARDCORE approach? Well....back up and start att he beginning of the chaptor...what was goin on with the Israelites? Thye had once again taken on the culture, idol worship, and spiritualism of their pagan neighbors - SUCH AS: the worship of various BAAL's - including - burning their children alive to these pagan Idols. YHWH simply said" ok - you want to be indipendent - now you are - a seige is coming from other nations that will overtake you - you will be without my protection - and this seige will be so devestating that you will be forced to eat your own flesh in order to survive - and all the surrounding nations will see this ruin that you have created by your own hand. Is cannabalism hardcore? yep? How bout child roasting to an Idol called BAAL or Molech?

Animal Sacrifice:

yes, this is true.

YHWH made clear from the garden of Eden - that sin required a covering - a price to be paid. From the first animal that was slain to the horror of Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness to the millions that were slain during the time of Israel until the final sacrifical lamb - Jesus Christ. I dont even pretend to say that I can grasp at all the needed bloodshed in this. But I'm not God. But this same God who demanded blood to cover sin - also was willing to sacrifice himself in the same way by torture and crucifixtion - a true sadistic Roman device. In doing so - he put an end to this bloodletting to cover sin from that point onward.

"I don't think there is to many of us on this board who does not fit into one of those catagories. If these are examples of "god's" definition of "evil" then there arn't very many people in the world who can actually push the button."

your right Odim's.

that includes me.

I answered the original post's question on "if I could - would I"? and yes, I would.

But I can't - thats the reality. I happen to be - part of the problem.

Steven

[odims_sphere]

your right Odim's.

that includes me.

I answered the original post's question on "if I could - would I"? and yes, I would.

But I can't - thats the reality. I happen to be - part of the problem.

Which was really my point. According to the bible's account of god's "evil", pushing the button would pretty much distroy everyone in the world, except maybe Ned Flanders.

[The_Dark]

working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15)

I'm all good here

cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9)

and here

worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

yep. still good

enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

still safe

being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)

I might just get to Heaven

engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13)

The path is clear...

and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

DOH!

[phee]

working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15)

    I'm all good here

cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9)

    and here

worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

    yep. still good

enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

    still safe

being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)

    I might just get to Heaven

engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13)

    The path is clear...

and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

    DOH!

:cheerful