Advice needed...

[Miranda]

Drama alert: My brother and his ex-gf had a baby girl in December. They were a couple at the time. They are now living apart and they are going to have court in the next 2 weeks for visitation rights etc.. due to her wanting to keep the child from my brother. He never asked her to leave, she is controlled by her parents, and she is 35. Her parents are both with mental illness and abuse controlled substances to the point of being zombie like. They have the guilt trip down to a science and use it on her to turn her away from my brother. The baby is about 2 hours and 45 minutes away, my brother works, she doesn't. She has not brought the child to see him since she left on February 6. He has been up there 2 times. I went once, but I am really being torn apart by their childish behavior, my parent's are being dragged in emotionally too. My question is , is it my place to write her or call her and ask her what the problem is? I really feel someone has to step in because they are jsut using this baby as a pawn to get back at eachother, it's apparent. This all came up because we had the baby's first Easter all planned now it's called of due to their bickering. I am enraged. I would not write a letter attacking her or her family and I definitely don't just take my siblings side. Thoughts? My boyfriend says to stay out of it, that nothing I say will make them see sense.

[Msterbeau]

The most important thing for everyone to remember here is that the child's best interests come first. As long as there's no abuse, then it benefits the child to spend as much time as possible with BOTH parents. It's a tough call on whether to get involved or not. You are family. If you're going to write a letter, it should come from a place of love and care for the child, and everyone involved. If you attack in any way, that's just asking for rejection and more hostility. Part of the whole situation is that the wounds of breakup are still raw... these will go away - if they let them. Get em talking... get them to air their grievances and work em out. If they refuse, then there's no a whole lot more you can do. Probably the person you can most influence is your brother. Don't let him blame it all on the other side. It takes two to cause drama. I'm rambling now... I hope for the childs sake it gets worked out OK.

[Miranda]

Mstrbeau,

You make perfect sense. My brother is at a stage right now where he is being combative, it's not helping his cause. He will have to learn the hard way, if he won't listen to reason. I have talked to him but he is stubborn. His ex has her ways too, they are both acting childish. The baby is the most i mportant thing, period. They need to work out their angers toward eachother out instead of using the baby as a pawn. I wrote a letter and will send it. I don't think I attacked her, I was just honest. Thanks for the repsonse.

The letter in it's entirety:

I would like to get a few things off of my mind and share them with you. I need you to understand that just because XXX is my brother, I do not side with him unconditionally. I know there are two sides to every story. I judge a person on how they treat me, their actions and mostly their character. This letter isn’t as much about XXX as it is in my hopes of making one of you see sense. The way you two are behaving isn’t good for either of you or the baby. The bickering has to stop, it’s tearing everyone apart, including myself. I have spoke to XXX last night and this morning and basically have told him the same thing. I have no idea what type of betrayal XXX has inflicted on you but I know you have some type of resentment and anger with him. I can understand, there was a problem between he and your father, that’s not an easy position for you to be placed in. I have taken all that into consideration. I just have a hard time understanding why you two would have a child only to be treating each other as enemies now. I think of the baby mainly, you two are adults. Soon she will be old enough to understand everything that is going on behind the scenes, the fighting, the arguments etc.. You will not be able to fake it forever. Clearly it is written all over XXX’s face his resentment, I saw that when we visited. I can understand that it hurts him, definitely but many times we have a hand in the problems in our lives. He has to face up to any mistakes he made, period. I am saddened that the baby’s first Easter will not be spent with all of us being happy and everything being smooth. Even if we did go up there, things are tense, it’s obvious. With each confrontation, both sides, that’s how it feels now... sides, get’s more upset. The baby doesn’t know that but as I stated, soon enough, she will. I can only speak what I feel and that is a deep rooted sadness for this baby. She will come from a broken home, at 4 ½ months, she has that against her already. I would do anything for XXXXXX, I think you know that. I just have to say that you two just need to learn to get along with one another , if not for each other , for her. There are times in life we just have to let go of our anger, it makes us a better person in the long run. I have already told XXX that when and if he gets visitation rights he should never down grade you to the baby, especially when she is older. He can remain honest about the situation and put it in a positive light instead of dwelling on the negative aspects of you two not being a couple and the circumstances that led up to that. I am not sure why you haven’t brought the baby to see XXX at all, I suppose only you know the answer to that. You left on February 6th, you haven’t brought her to my parent’s house once or to XXX’s. I don’t want to begin debating you back and forth about why you aren’t doing this or that. I just found that highly odd. I would think you’d want the baby to have her father in her life. I can’t force you to act in a manner you don’t want to. Often, we need to look within ourselves to have a better insight. If you and XXX would be able to get along better, the transition of this now extended family may be easier. None of us knows what the future holds, someday you may need each other for moral support and it will be quite awkward. If XXXXXX ever were to get ill, God forbid but if she did, it would be a mess. XXX would never take XXXXXX from you, you need to clear that from your mind. No one has ever even considered that as an option. You are the birth mother, we all know that. I also would like to say, I think you are doing a wonderful job with her, XXXXXX looks happy and extremely healthy. I honestly wish things could have worked out between you and XXX but you two are seemingly too different but I feel it’s more the fact that you are a lot alike. Regarding temper, a low agitation point and just plain manipulation of each other. Maybe it wasn’t my right to express myself to you but I feel I am doing the proper thing for myself. I need to know I tried, that I made an attempt and spoke up. Everyone else can hold onto their ego and pride, that’s their choice. I will be the one who will be able to tell myself I gave it my best shot and wanted the best for my niece. I will close for now and I can only hope you hold no ill will toward me for being honest in what I see and feel. Love, Miranda

[Onyx]

I think you should respect your brother's wishes, as he is the father. It's up to him to work it out. I am sure he will appreciate your support and perhaps in time some gentle advice. I try to remember a quote about advice I once read and I think it usually rings true.

"Advice is like snow. The softer it falls the deeper it sinks."

Usually the courts will try to be sure the father gets visitation. Perhaps wait and see how that works out?

[Miranda]

I think you should respect your brother's wishes, as he is the father.  It's up to him to work it out.  I am sure he will appreciate your support and perhaps in time some gentle advice.  I try to remember a quote about advice I once read and I think it usually rings true. 

"Advice is like snow.  The softer it falls the deeper it sinks."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is so true.. great quote Onyx.

[Msterbeau]

Onyx... I would rely on the court to do little more then fuck things up. Maybe I'm jaded... I've heard too many bad judgements to have any faith in their ability to make things reasonable when it comes to divorce and child custody. The best way to make sure that a good settlement happens is to work directly with your ex to make it so. My daughter's mom and I make a big effort to do this.

Good quote Onyx. It's a tough one to remember.

[Onyx]

Onyx...  I would rely on the court to do little more then fuck things up.  Maybe I'm jaded... I've heard too many bad judgements to have any faith in their ability to make things reasonable when it comes to divorce and child custody.  The best way to make sure that a good settlement happens is to work directly with your ex to make it so.  My daughter's mom and I make a big effort to do this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My own experience with the court has been a very bad one and unfortunately my ex only communicated through his lawyer and would not discuss anything with me, so the court was my only way to get anything arranged.

It doesn't sound like they are communicating well though so my thought was that maybe it will be worked out. Occasionally the courts manage to get some visitation arrangements made where both parents are getting time.

I can't understand this whole business of trying to keep a child from one of the parents. It's often vindictive behavior and bad for everyone unless there is some sort of abuse.

The thing is, when you get caught up in these family battles it often gets even worse than if you stand back and just see if the parties can work things out for themselves. In fact I'm in that sort of situation now and I'm biting my tongue. I wish adults would act like adults! grrrr.

[Msterbeau]

My own experience with the court has been a very bad one and unfortunately my ex only communicated through his lawyer and would not discuss anything with me, so the court was my only way to get anything arranged. 

It doesn't sound like they are communicating well though so my thought was that maybe it will be worked out.  Occasionally the courts manage to get some visitation arrangements made where both parents are getting time. 

I can't understand this whole business of trying to keep a child from one of the parents.  It's often vindictive behavior and bad for everyone unless there is some sort of abuse. 

The thing is, when you get caught up in these family battles it often gets even worse than if you stand back and just see if the parties can work things out for themselves.  In fact I'm in that sort of situation now and I'm biting my tongue.  I wish adults would act like adults!  grrrr.

Yeah... my theory doesn't hold up if the people are too stubborn/stupid/etc to communicate properly. Or like in your case when one side will and the other won't. It sucks that people get like that. =(

[Rayne]

Onyx...  I would rely on the court to do little more then fuck things up.  Maybe I'm jaded... I've heard too many bad judgements to have any faith in their ability to make things reasonable when it comes to divorce and child custody.  The best way to make sure that a good settlement happens is to work directly with your ex to make it so.  My daughter's mom and I make a big effort to do this.

Good quote Onyx.  It's a tough one to remember.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with Marc on this one. ... that's all I'm going to say.

[AstralCrux]

Never, let me repeat this, never send messages to anyone who is going to court with you before or after court- any court. If there is anything in that letter- doesn't look like it thankfully- that could be used against your brother or if you implied defamation of character that girl will use it against your poor brother. My mom mastered this concept with her divorce and custody battle. If you don't know what's going on and you suspect she/her family has severe problems (drugs, etc.) get a private detective and bring any information to court.

Otherwise, it really is technically his "problem" that noone is seeing the baby. If you get involved at all and they get back together it could put you in an awkward position. I'd say be supportive of your brother, but don't get involved.

[Miranda]

Never, let me repeat this, never send messages to anyone who is going to court with you before or after court- any court.  If there is anything in that letter- doesn't look like it thankfully- that could be used against your brother or if you implied defamation of character that girl will use it against your poor brother.  My mom mastered this concept with her divorce and custody battle.  If you don't know what's going on and you suspect she/her family has severe problems (drugs, etc.) get a private detective and bring any information to court. 

Otherwise, it really is technically his "problem" that noone is seeing the baby.  If you get involved at all and they get back together it could put you in an awkward position.  I'd say be supportive of your brother, but don't get involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For my own sanity, I have to try to stay away from this situation. To clarify a few things; I don't suspect her parent's of excessive drug abuse, I know about the drug use, they don't/never did hide it. They take up to and over 10 Vicodin ES a day each and 7 or more 1 mg Xanax each. My brother has the empty bottles to prove it for court. They took the baby into seclusion almost 3 hours away to a house on a lake, and there is no one to watch the baby but his ex gf. or her parents. She cannot stay awake 24 hours a day... who watches the baby then? That's what makes us fearful. Her father also suffers from Delusional Parasitosis... he thinks he has parasites, that combined with the OCD he has, he has taken straight razors to his body cutting into himself... her mother once took one to his cock then had to call 911 after almost killing him after slicing on his cock with a straight razor on his insistence thinking he saw bugs on it. Douses/immerses himself in a scalding hot bath tub mixture of alcohol and bleach in order to cleanse himself of these parasites, which he doesn't even have. He has also threatened to kill his family members in the past , then himself and it isn't hearsay, it's fact.They have left full bottles of these drugs in bags in the floor, I saw that myself. The baby is too little to get to them now but later? People may think, well this isn't about the grandparents but it is.. they have access to the child 24 hours a day. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that this could be potentially dangerous environment for the baby. The grandmother even tried to kill herself a couple years ago at a hotel, slicing her wrists deeply. We are scared for the child. The parents have a mansion but came to live with my brother and his ex in order to control her through guilt. She has been divorced twice, the reason for the breakups is the parents, every time. It's a mess, I have to face that it will probably always be fucked up. My brother is a moron at times too, not just downgrading or judging her side. My mother warned be about the talking shit about my brother no matter how true it was because she will/could use it. I am too honest at times for my own good, she knows me. I at least wrote the letter but I may or may not send it. It made me feel better but I am officially walking away. I took into consideration all the advice I was given and it was greatly appreciated.

[Homicidalheathen]

Women do loose. My man got his kid, my freind (female) lost hers. I hope your brother gets her, it sounds like she would be in a much more stable environment. I am rooting for him

[Miranda]

Women do loose.  My man got his kid, my freind (female) lost hers.  I hope your brother gets her, it sounds like she would be in a much more stable environment.  I am rooting for him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate your opinion. It's not so much about taking her away as it is making sure she is safe. That is the biggest concern. The mother has just taken her so far away and they are in seclusion. His ex- gf put the baby in a stroller and pushed her inside of the house... that seems a bit odd to me and extremely paranoid. I mean the house is huge but that's a bit much.