What kind of behavior is acceptable during war?

[Msterbeau]

Well? Should we lower our expectations and accountability "because it's war"? Should friendly fire situations and accidental deaths be punished? Should we forgive those who go nuts in a wartime environment and turn into psychopaths?

Please refrain from discussing the morality/righteousness of war. That's a whole other topic of discussion.

[Onyx]

There has to be some accountability. Humans will turn inhuman when they have unlimited power.

It's hard to make general statements though. I think mostly it would have to be looked at on a case by case basis. It seems to me that war gets uglier with each passing conflict.

[The_Dark]

Onyx,

It appears that way only because what is acceptable behaviour has changed. A good example is WWII. "The Greatest Generation" *cough*bullshit*cough* As time has passed we tend to gloss over some of the really bad stuff. By today's standards some of the tactics used to fight the Japanese military were deplorable. On a battle field today.. we toss grenades and bombs into caves. In WWII we pumped liquid fire into the hole. One kills almost instantly.. the other is a bit more gruesome and slow. Neither tactic is morally acceptable to any sane person.. but one is an evil you can accept as part of war. We do everything we can to limit the deaths of civilians these days. In WWII it was acceptable to destroy a whole town to get the fuel dump with 5 gaurds.

There are evils commited in every war.. by every people. The measure of a sociaty is what we do to the people after the war is over.

[Head Wreck]

two words. white phosfor(sp?)

[The_Dark]

Mustard Gas

[Guest Megalicious]

Should we forgive those who go nuts in a wartime environment and turn into psychopaths? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know that is hard question..... My mothers SO is a Vietnam Vet, we have NEVER gotten along well, but in January went I went to visit them In AZ I found something even more disturbing ... that he is somewhat proud of the awful things he has done in battle. He has slides and pictures, 'gook" patches from his unit ect. But the most distrubing of all, is a belt, it was a neat looking belt, (they have shit all over the house that is neat and old Jim collects everything from war veichles to guns) It was small and light brown with this neat looking star on it .. And Asked Jim where he got it from .. because it was so small and I know it wasnt his .. and he proudly smiled and laughed as he told me how he had stole it off of one of those "gooks" after he had killed him.... :tear I was just sickened by how he was gloating about it ... and I cant understand how my hippie of a mother could be with someone like this...

However, he later told me when we were sitting on the back porch debating war that out of all the things he had went through, the things he had seen, and the way he had been treated .. the most tramatic thing was when he came home from Vietnam, He had flown into LAX and was carrying his sack and issued rifile, when a little boy look up at him with such wonder and excitement. Jim procceded to go up to the little boy, just as his mother spit in Jims face and called him "a fucking baby killer" I believe is way he put it. When I looked at him I could see the hurt in his face, here was a man that had gone to war for his country only to come back to ppl spitting in his face. I felt so bad for him .. because he looked as if he was going to cry, and I could feel his pain.

I dont not support the war, but I support the troops that are over there fighthing and the hardships they must have to go through on a daliy basis.

War can make ppl do some crazy shit just trying to survive, Im not here to judge them, HOWEVER I do believe we should have a better support system for mental health for soliders when they come home, I think it should be manitory for them to have therapy and or support groups with other troops, that why they are less likely to have PTSD or some kind of other mental illness. But it should'nt give ppl the right to think they can run a muk and do what ever they want. No one has that right. Ive said it before and I will say it again .. there is no such thing as a action without concequences .. period.

[The_Dark]

Meg... I think maybe your misunderstanding something.

What happens in war...

People want to forget the bad things. You never forget. You can never let yourself forget. You can't let anyone else forget. Mistakes happen. We do things we would not normally do. Part of us trys to push allthat bad stuff down.. but part knows we have to not forget. So we keep things. We boast about our "trophys". It's all a lesson for those that come later...

War is hell.. that belt is a reminder that he walked in Hell and came back. It's a warning to ther to do EVERYTHING you can to never send another sould there.

[Guest Megalicious]

I do understand that ...and after the story about the little boy I felt really bad for him.

[The_Dark]

Noone really supports war. Not sane people anyway. War is something that happens... sometimes, it's the only way to get something done. It's how you fight the war, what you do when the smoke settles and how well you can sleep 30 years later that define what kind of person you are.

My grand father faught in WWII in North Africa, Italy, France and Germany. He was at almost every major battle that had US forces in. He still wakes up crying. He has never directly spoken about the things he "had to do" to me. Though I do most of it. He's not proud of what he did, but he is proud of the outcome and the cause.

[Guest Megalicious]

He has never directly spoken about the things he "had to do" to me. Though I do most of it. He's not proud of what he did, but he is proud of the outcome and the cause.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you mean, My Grandfather was in the Korean War, my grandmother use to have to wake him up with a broomstick. One day I asked him what it was like over there, and all he could say to me was "Meggie, no one has ever asked me that before" and we left it at that.

[The_Dark]

My grand Father has always told me that there are two types of people that brag about what they did during a war...

1. The Insane ones

2. The Liars

People that have never been in a war really have no idea what it's like. We can set guidlines for what can and can't happen.. but they are only guidelines. They will get crossed. Most of the time.. only by a fraction and really... there is nothing we can do about it. other times.... Really bad things happen, even by the standards of war. Even then, we were not there... Can we really judge those who were? Not easily. How do you punish someone that you sent to hell for the actions they commit while there? Anyone who is accused of "war crimes" should be tried by a panel of both civilians and military personel that have actually been in War. It's the fairest we can be to the poor bastards.

[Steven]

My grand Father has always told me that there are two types of people that brag about what they did during a war...

1. The Insane ones

2. The Liars

People that have never been in a war really have no idea what it's like. We can set guidlines for what can and can't happen.. but they are only guidelines. They will get crossed. Most of the time.. only by a fraction and really... there is nothing we can do about it. other times.... Really bad things happen, even by the standards of war. Even then, we were not there... Can we really judge those who were? Not easily. How do you punish someone that you sent to hell for the actions they commit while there? Anyone who is accused of "war crimes" should be tried by a panel of both civilians and military personel that have actually been in War. It's the fairest we can be to the poor bastards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this was very well presented.

[Hellion]

:devil Na-palm was very evil,and what it did to the innocent victims.

[phee]

War itself is a reaction to something unresolvable... it is a desperate and unreasonable reaction to a desperate and unreasonable situation... At least we hope that is this case instead of someone pushing their own agenda...

[Msterbeau]

War itself is a reaction to something unresolvable... it is a desperate and unreasonable reaction to a desperate and unreasonable situation... At least we hope that is this case instead of someone pushing their own agenda...

*Points to notice at the bottom of my first post*

[Blackmail]

I just hate how some combatants use children (i.e. Palestinians).

[Msterbeau]

I just hate how some combatants use children (i.e. Palestinians).

Vietnam springs to mind as well.

The whole idea of a nations culture and how that affects what is permissable behavior could be a whole other thread. Certainly there is a culture of guns and violence amongst many middle-east countries. Not all of the people support this I'm sure, but violence seems to be the answer to everything for many of them. A misperception? Perhaps... then again, It seems that many Americans advocate "blowing the hell" out of percieved enemies .. or "kicking their ass"... Our violence tends to get carried out via the fist though. Stupid, but not as harmful as a bomb.

Back to the subject.. :whistling

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

Every society brings its cultural norms and beliefs to war... and usually the opponant does not agree with them. Its hard to say what is right... but since every nation has its own cultural bias and heirarchy of culture, its pretty subjective.