Spokespersons for Left and Right

[Fierce Critter]

It's being tossed around in another thread how Michael Moore is a bad spokesperson for the left, whereas Rush Limbaugh is a bad spokesperson for the right, etc.

I wonder, if you lean one way or the other, is there someone who generally takes the "other side" that you can deal with? Or those who speak for "your side" that you can't stand?

Liberal leaning myself, I used to listen to Al Franken a lot on Sirius, before Air America jumped to XM. Al has a longtime friend who's a pretty hardcore conservative that he has on his show for a segment every day. The guy ought to have his own talk show, he can be darned interesting to hear from.

I used to listen to a lot of conservative talk radio when working a crap plastics factory job in Florida. G. Gordon Liddy, Rush, etc. It was a means of keeping myself sane in insane circumstances, and a means of educating myself on the way conservatives think. I found the crankiness & negativity pretty scary.

But I also have a big problem with Ed Schultz. I think he's the Liberal equivalent to Rush Limbaugh.

And Lynne Samuel's voice grates on me like crazy.

The Young Turks and Franken were my favorites. But I don't have Sirius right now, and forget to listen to them on the 'net, so I haven't heard them in months.

[Blackmail]

I think most on both sides are pretty bad as they rarely concede anything.

Some good ones though:

right: PJ O'rourke

left: Thom Hartmann, but I've only listened to him a few times.

[Fierce Critter]

I think most on both sides are pretty bad as they rarely concede anything. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, the ability and willingness to concede a point presented by the "other side" is also something with which I judge a commentator or debate participant.

I agree - you don't see enough of it. Anywhere.

[n0Mad]

Good spokespeople for the Libertarians, I vote Penn & Teller (though Teller doesn't do much speaking).

[Homicidalheathen]

I saw him on HBO......he likes hookers too. Hee hee. :cheerful

Good spokespeople for the Libertarians, I vote Penn & Teller (though Teller doesn't do much speaking).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[phee]

Al Franken tends to back his rhetoric up with facts... Others such as O'Reily, Limbaugh, and a lot of the Michael Moore stuff is twisted and fabricated (and sometimes just outright lies)

That usually goes a long way for me... someones opinion needs to be backed up by proveable sources

[Msterbeau]

Al Franken tends to back his rhetoric up with facts... Others such as O'Reily, Limbaugh, and a lot of the Michael Moore stuff is twisted and fabricated (and sometimes just outright lies)

That usually goes a long way for me... someones opinion needs to be backed up by proveable sources

Plus... he's really nice, darnit!!

[phee]

Plus... he's really nice, darnit!!

Yeah... he seems likeable and reasonable... and he doesn't take himself too seriously....

One of the things I liked in one of his last books was he was stating an opinion about a future president he would like to see... and he says something like: "He is deeply religious and spiritual, oh you wouldn't know that though, because this President doesn't feel the need to show off his religous and spiritual beliefs as an advertising tool for his own presidency"

[Blackmail]

Yeah... he seems likeable and reasonable... and he doesn't take himself too seriously....

One of the things I liked in one of his last books was he was stating an opinion about a future president he would like to see... and he says something like: "He is deeply religious and spiritual, oh you wouldn't know that though, because this President doesn't feel the need to show off his religous and spiritual beliefs as an advertising tool for his own presidency"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.frankenlies.com/

[phee]

http://www.frankenlies.com/

And where does this site back up it's claims... if you have read the books, every factual claim the book makes sites a source...

On this site I am seeing a lot of... "Yes it is... not it isn't"

[Blackmail]

And where does this site back up it's claims... if you have read the books, every factual claim the book makes sites a source...

On this site I am seeing a lot of... "Yes it is... not it isn't"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.frankenlies.com/lies/clintontape.htm

Ok the first one I looked up, Sean Hannity claims that he was mad that Clinton didn't capture Bin Laden when he had a chance.

In his book about Fox news, he blasts Hannity for lying, saying that Clinton never had a chance to capture Bin laden and that it's republican/fox news propaganda.

On the site it has a quote from Clinton who himself said he had a chance and there is a link to the audio of Clinton saying it.

I'm just saying, Franken is hardly the most trustworthy man I've ever read.

[phee]

OK

[BrassFusion]

From the site:

If Franken wanted to cite true examples of racism in the 2002 Maryland election (rather than a bogus flier), he should have looked across to his friends the Democrats. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend had to fire a top political strategist after he announced he would plan to portray Republican Robert Ehrlich as a "Nazi" to black voters. (Lest there be any question about the context in which the remark was made, here is what the man told the Washington Post: "Bob Ehrlich is a Nazi."1) The strategist had also made issue of the fact that Ehrlich chose a black man named Michael Steele as his running mate for lieutenant governor. He said Ehrlich probably picked Steele only because he "felt sorry for him because he needs money to pay his mortgage."2 And when Steele appeared at the gubernatorial debate a month before the election, Democrats passed out Oreo cookies to mock the black Republican candidate.3,4 (An "Oreo" is a terribly derogatory term to describe a black man who is perceived as "black on the outside, but white on the inside.") After the debate, Democratic officials tried to deny this had happened, but one of the cookies had actually rolled to Steele’s feet during the debate. "Maybe it was just someone having their snack, but it was there," said Steele.5

    Now, Mr. Franken, which side was racist in this election?

I feel stupider for having read that. What does that have to do with Al Franken?

Edit: Forgot to mention- I didn't sift through the articles until I found something stupid and decidedly un-damning to Franken. I just picked that one at random.

[phee]

From the site:

I feel stupider for having read that. What does that have to do with Al Franken?

Edit: Forgot to mention- I didn't sift through the articles until I found something stupid and decidedly un-damning to Franken. I just picked that one at random.

Kind of the feeling I got from the site... just sort of distracting not really actually disproving anything

[Blackmail]

From the site:

I feel stupider for having read that. What does that have to do with Al Franken?

Edit: Forgot to mention- I didn't sift through the articles until I found something stupid and decidedly un-damning to Franken. I just picked that one at random.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Franken makes unfounded claims of racism against republicans, which he failed to mention were proved false according to the department of justice, yet ignores "racism" in his "own" party.

Get it now?

[BrassFusion]

Franken makes unfounded claims of racism against republicans, which he failed to mention were proved false according to the department of justice, yet ignores "racism" in his "own" party. 

Get it now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The website didn't even tell me what the claims against the Republicans were, and I STRONGLY doubt all allegations were "proven" false. It is rather difficult to prove that someone isn't biased against people based on race.

As for the claims of "racism" in his own party, the first one is about a woman (not specified if she was a candidate or anything) FIRING a strategist for trying to describe someone else as a Nazi. How is that racist? It's in bad taste, sure, but it's not racist at all.

The second piece of "evidence" is about how the asshole who was fired made comments about a black man being chosen as a running mate because he had to pay off his mortgage.

Again- THE GUY WAS FIRED FOR THOSE REASONS.

Last thing- cookies. Oreo cookies. Assuming the worst, that a Democratic contingent served those cookies as an affront to Steele (which again, would be impossible to prove), that is fucking hilarious. How much of a tool would he have to be to complain about it?

Because they were saying he acts white... Sheesh.

[Blackmail]

The website didn't even tell me what the claims against the Republicans were, and I STRONGLY doubt all allegations were "proven" false. It is rather difficult to prove that someone isn't biased against people based on race.

As for the claims of "racism" in his own party, the first one is about a woman (not specified if she was a candidate or anything) FIRING a strategist for trying to describe someone else as a Nazi. How is that racist? It's in bad taste, sure, but it's not racist at all.

The second piece of "evidence" is about how the asshole who was fired made comments about a black man being chosen as a running mate because he had to pay off his mortgage.

Again- THE GUY WAS FIRED FOR THOSE REASONS.

Last thing- cookies. Oreo cookies. Assuming the worst, that a Democratic contingent served those cookies as an affront to Steele (which again, would be impossible to prove), that is fucking hilarious. How much of a tool would he have to be to complain about it?

Because they were saying he acts white... Sheesh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok so you didn't read the site, Franken made specific claims against the Republican party.

Please do not comment about something you don't believe to be true until you know what you are talking about. For example, if you havn't read the DOJ report on the 2000 elections and racism claims - then don't talk about it. Ok? Because honestly, you sound pretty uneducated on these forums.

[BrassFusion]

Damn, and I thought reading poorly punctuated Republican propoganda would make me smarter.

[phee]

Ok so you didn't read the site, Franken made specific claims against the Republican party.

Please do not comment about something you don't believe to be true until you know what you are talking about.  For example, if you havn't read the DOJ report on the 2000 elections and racism claims - then don't talk about it. Ok?  Because honestly, you sound pretty uneducated on these forums.

This paticular case actually doesn't disprove anything that Franken was claiming... it simply brings up another unrelated subject, distracting from the main point *Cough* Cough* Fox News.... *Cough*

[Blackmail]

This paticular case actually doesn't disprove anything that Franken was claiming... it simply brings up another unrelated subject, distracting from the main point *Cough* Cough* Fox News.... *Cough*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I sort of agree with you, what I think the intent was by the site was to show that what he accuses the republicans of, the Democrats are also guilty of, and he never says a word about them.

By the way, I agree that Fox News leans to the right and they give you a Republican perspective. Franken is correct about that. I do have issues with alot of other stuff he says though.

[phee]

Glad that we can agree on some issues any way

[The_Dark]

OK, I would just like to point something out on the whole "which party is racists and which is not" thingy. Lets let actions speak... Everyone crack a history book and lets look at the Civil Rights movement and the Women's Liberation movement... Everyone done reading? Got all the history fresh in your head now?

OK.... Which party through out it's history has fought for Civil Rights and which has done everything they can to stop them?

[phee]

OK, I would just like to point something out on the whole "which party is racists and which is not" thingy. Lets let actions speak... Everyone crack a history book and lets look at the Civil Rights movement and the Women's Liberation movement... Everyone done reading? Got all the history fresh in your head now?

OK.... Which party through out it's history has fought for Civil Rights and which has done everything they can to stop them?

Both Partys have been very guilty or racism thrughout History.... Andrew Jackson... one of the worst violators of human rights in the History of the country was a Democrat... Pat Buchanin (sp) was an extreme Right wing republican... but 2 things are important.... 1.) Time has past and the definition of Democrat and Republican are not the same as they were in Andrew Jackson's time... 2.) Don't judge the individual for the whole party.... Tom Delay is (hopefully) not what the entire Republican party has become right now...

What I do see is what is happening right now (or what seems to be) Is the the Republican right seems to have an agenda of violating peoples civil rights.... One group comes to mind without question: Homosexuals...

And Democrats on the left right now, seem to be on the whole trying to improve the qualities of the lives of individuals (universal health care for example)

Both Parties have there exeptions... on the left... Grandholm does not really seem improve anything at all... and on the Right, well Colin Powell, seems to have done a lot for civil rights while he was in office...

[Blackmail]

Both Partys have been very guilty or racism thrughout History.... Andrew Jackson... one of the worst violators of human rights in the History of the country was a Democrat... Pat Buchanin (sp) was an extreme Right wing republican... but 2 things are important.... 1.) Time has past and the definition of Democrat and Republican are not the same as they were in Andrew Jackson's time... 2.) Don't judge the individual for the whole party.... Tom Delay is (hopefully) not what the entire Republican party has become right now...

What I do see is what is happening right now (or what seems to be) Is the the Republican right seems to have an agenda of violating peoples civil rights.... One group comes to mind without question: Homosexuals...

And Democrats on the left right now, seem to be on the whole trying to improve the qualities of the lives of individuals (universal health care for example)

Both Parties have there exeptions... on the left... Grandholm does not really seem improve anything at all... and on the Right, well Colin Powell, seems to have done a lot for civil rights while he was in office...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat Buchanan is not a racist and he had a black female running mate the last time he ran for president.

Your point about the Democrats trying to improve the lives of individuals is highly debatable and universal health care has lots of problems and when it was put to the senate back in the 90's all the Democrats voted against it, including John Kerry.

[The_Dark]

Hence my focus on recent history... as in the last 50 years....

It was the Democrats that fought against De-Segregation.

It was the Democrats that fought against Women's Liberation.

It was the Democrats that fought against giving Blacks and Women the Right to Vote. (thought these are outside the 50 years span)