What drew you to the goth subculture?

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I think I started going because of the music... I started dressing like everyone else so they would talk to me.... now I dont care and I will just wear my work clothes out to the club. Its a nice way of limiting the number of conversations i will have with people who end up annoying me anyway.

[Paper Hearts]

^i don't even go to the clubs any more...i don't care for the music. But I've met a few people that would call themselves goths today...that are way off...that are still alright people. I think the times change, the music changes...but when the times change and the music changes (& the fashion changes), it's something different. I think just saying you are a goth is a trend...and i don't say I'm a goth...or a punk rocker.

[Blackmail]

I think the times change, the music changes...but when the times change and the music changes (& the fashion changes), it's something different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I agree. Scary Guy doesn't agree.

[Paper Hearts]

I know Scary doesn't agree...but Scary doesn't have a closet full of Mo Hair sweaters like i do, either.

Scary is a good guy. Sweet hearse too.

[Blackmail]

Hey PH what do you do instead of going to clubs then?

I havn't been to CC since New Years eve. I'm old though.

[Paper Hearts]

Well, I don't do a whole lot. I'm old. almost. I'm trying to lay-low so that 30 doesn't find me.

I hang w/ Steve sometimes. Somtimes I help friends work on cars or something. In general I'm disatisfied.

[Blackmail]

Well, I don't do a whole lot. I'm old. almost. I'm trying to lay-low so that 30 doesn't find me.

I hang w/ Steve sometimes. Somtimes I help friends work on cars or something. In general I'm disatisfied.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You should get married.

[Paper Hearts]

I'll do it. Vegas sound alright?

[sinmantyx]

Yeah, and in truth, if you were into punk in 76 or goth in hell, even 78 you were a rare MF. Iggy Pop said it best, I think--when interviewed about why he was letting one of (his) punk's sentinel songs be used for a car commercial, he responded, 'the only people who bought that album or came to the shows when that stuff was new were guys with really bad jobs who drove piece of shit cars--I hardly made a penny; I'm 50 years old now...if someone wants to use one of the songs to sell breakfast sausage, what the fuck can I possibly care?'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was 1 year old in 1976.

Neat quote. I enjoy Moby's reaction of (very paraphrased) they'll just steal it anyway, why not get rich off of them.

[Scary Guy]

BM: I don't agree because it's too much work to get people to apply a different term for it. "Freak" is the closest thing we've come to and to me it relates more to the mainstream goths and those that got into Korn and similar sounding bands. So rather than get rid of it we update it to fit today's deffinition.

Like I said before, gay nolonger means happy, dude nolonger means a city slicker, and goth(ic) nolonger means what it used to.

My system of what goth is puts things on a scale, and that way the things that are truely goth are still way more goth than the "freak" culture I mentioned earlier.

PH: thanks for the shout out. If you ever show up at I-Rock I'll buy you a drink.

[phee]

Truelly Goth?

[Scary Guy]

Truelly Goth?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, at least to those fundamnetalist orthodox goths.

[phee]

And who detrmines that exaclty

[Scary Guy]

And who detrmines that exaclty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why the fundamnetalist orthodox goths do, that is if they can ever agree on what goth actually is.

Since they can't I offer up my deffinition (yet again) of anything that is dark natured. Doesn't have to be evil and morbid necessarily, but at least one of the two. Yes I indeed split goth into two sections; that which is evil and that which is morbid/sorrow filled (satan and death, red and black, bloody orgys and funerals etc...).

[phee]

I really like the sentiment that when someone is in a scene... there needs no requirement... if they are there... then they are in the scene

[Paper Hearts]

PH: thanks for the shout out.  If you ever show up at I-Rock I'll buy you a drink.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Guy, you are not so Scary afterall.

No need for the drink. I'll be around to hear you spin as soon as I can get out.

[Blackmail]

I really like the sentiment that when someone is in a scene... there needs no requirement... if they are there... then they are in the scene

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. I just understand the older goth crowd's objections to calling today's scene 'goth'. I get where Joey Deadcat is coming from. You can be in the scene and being there is all the should be required but at least know what the scene is called!

Goth is sort of an umbrella word now anyway for alot of people. I like Future Pop. So I consider myself into the FuturePop scene, not the goth scene. I don't even like EBM, which for some reason people lump together - mostly because many of the Future Pop bands used to be EBM (VNV Nation for example). Some people think there are too many genre subcategories. I don't. I really do think VNV Nation sound completely different from Front 242 or CombiChrist. I really do think Icon of Coil sounds completely different from Wolfsheim. Thus, I like genre labeling.

I am not sure if that was all a rant or if I had a point in there somewhere.

[phee]

Yeah.... genres help to describe.... it's not so much about "earning a label"

[Paper Hearts]

I think there is a difference though between simply being in a scene and and being the someone responsible for the existance of a scene. This is Steve's thread, he's not here, but I've talked with him about it. I'm pretty sure he's asking people why they are involved in a music, or a scene, that is against everything they stand for.

It is not something I wish to explore with people, but I'm almost sure that's what he's meaning by this thread.

[phee]

Actually being in the scene is, I believe, the only factor which makes a scene exist in the first place...

The actual "flavor" of the scene however changes and alters as the members change... and sometimes it gets renamed in the process...

Usually when a scene forms it is a mutation of an existing one...

[BrassFusion]

Actually being in the scene is, I believe, the only factor which makes a scene exist in the first place...

The actual "flavor" of the scene however changes and alters as the members change... and sometimes it gets renamed in the process...

Usually when a scene forms it is a mutation of an existing one...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know why some people care what the scene's called. My friends who've never been to CC (and have no interest in going) call it "the goth club," because it's more "goth" than they're interested in being involved in.

And Scary- the goddamn goth scale again.

For that scale to have any meaning it has to be the opinion of the person who originally used the word "goth" to describe a subculture. Rename it the "Scary" scale and you'll have the power to accurately peg everything in the world.

[Blackmail]

I think there is a difference though between simply being in a scene and and being the someone responsible for the existance of a scene. This is Steve's thread, he's not here, but I've talked with him about it. I'm pretty sure he's asking people why they are involved in a music, or a scene, that is against everything they stand for.

It is not something I wish to explore with people, but I'm almost sure that's what he's meaning by this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you be more specific? Or can he?

What scene are we talking about? The Goth, punk, industrial or Future Pop scene?

What is it that this scene stands for that I am opposed to?

Also, is just finding the music to be sort of catchy enough to warrant your existence in the scene?

Breaking it down, the Punk scene did have political and social stances, as we've discussed before, but not all the bands were a monolith. As stated, Ian Curtis and Johnny Rotton probably would not have agreed on much.

The goth scene probably had some political or social commentary to it, but not all of it.

Synthpop is pretty A-political.

Futurepop is more concerned with the sound than lyrics, VNV has some political lyrics but most of the others don't.

Not sure about Industrial because I don't listen to it.

EBM, not sure.

So some clarification of what the scene is and what it supposedly represents would be helpful.

[Paper Hearts]

Can you be more specific? Or can he?

What scene are we talking about?  The Goth, punk, industrial or Future Pop scene?

What is it that this scene stands for that I am opposed to?

Also, is just finding the music to be sort of catchy enough to warrant your existence in the scene?

Breaking it down, the Punk scene did have political and social stances, as we've discussed before, but not all the bands were a monolith.  As stated, Ian Curtis and Johnny Rotton probably would not have agreed on much.

The goth scene probably had some political or social commentary to it, but not all of it. 

Synthpop is pretty A-political.   

Futurepop is more concerned with the sound than lyrics, VNV has some political lyrics but most of the others don't.

Not sure about Industrial because I don't listen to it. 

EBM, not sure.

So some clarification of what the scene is and what it supposedly represents would be helpful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In all fairness, he's titled the thread 'Something, something, the goth subculture'.

[Scary Guy]

And Scary- the goddamn goth scale again.

For that scale to have any meaning it has to be the opinion of the person who originally used the word "goth" to describe a subculture. Rename it the "Scary" scale and you'll have the power to accurately peg everything in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if I changed my name to "Goth Guy"?

In any case I'm goth, therefore I can define goth. I'm more "in the know" than most of the people who show up at CC or live in the Detroit area. The only people who might know more than me live in L.A., N.Y.C., and London where much of what it originally was has been defined.

[phee]

What if I changed my name to "Goth Guy"?

In any case I'm goth, therefore I can define goth.  I'm more "in the know" than most of the people who show up at CC or live in the Detroit area.  The only people who might know more than me live in L.A., N.Y.C., and London where much of what it originally was has been defined.

So am I.... therefore I know more than you.... Goth Boy A