Victory???

[Msterbeau]

Our president is getting delusional as his terms wears on...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6081400094.html

Hassan Nesralllah seems to be suffering from the same affliction of the mind...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ld/15154059.htm

[HipsterDufus]

You know who the real victor is in this? Us, the American public. Why? Because our news hours can now be filled with even more news of screwed up middle eastern folk bombing each other. Cease fire, my ass.

<sigh> Hasn't that part of the world just nuked itself yet?

But seriously, to me it looks like Hezbollah won. I mean, they're pretty much getting everything they want (i.e. Israeli troops leaving) while Israel is "hoping" that they'll get their two soldiers released. No one is even really talking about Hezbollah disarming anymore. I would say Hezbollah's getting the better deal, wouldn't you?

[Blackmail]

You know who the real victor is in this?  Us, the American public.  Why?  Because our news hours can now be filled with even more news of screwed up middle eastern folk bombing each other.  Cease fire, my ass.

<sigh>  Hasn't that part of the world just nuked itself yet?

But seriously, to me it looks like Hezbollah won.  I mean, they're pretty much getting everything they want (i.e. Israeli troops leaving) while Israel is "hoping" that they'll get their two soldiers released.  No one is even really talking about Hezbollah disarming anymore.  I would say Hezbollah's getting the better deal, wouldn't you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh? Israeli troops were gone in 2000 and havn't been back since. The only reason Israeli soldiers were in Lebanon was because Hezbollah started a war.

Israel won the diplomatic "war". Hezbollah can no longer patrol the south of Lebanon anymore, finally the UNIFIL and Lebanese Army have to.

Furthermore, 1/3 of the Hezbollah ammunition is gone, Far more Hezbollah soldiers were killed than IDF soldiers and 2 of thier senior officials were killed.

How on earth would you say Hezbollah got the better of the deal, especially since it's not the Israeli's complaining about the UN ceasefire, it's Iran and Hezbollah calling it "unfair".

Losing land, soldiers and weapons does not equal victory.

[Msterbeau]

Huh?  Israeli troops were gone in 2000 and havn't been back since.  The only reason Israeli soldiers were in Lebanon was because Hezbollah started a war.

Israel won the diplomatic "war".  Hezbollah can no longer patrol the south of Lebanon anymore, finally the UNIFIL and Lebanese Army have to.

Furthermore, 1/3 of the Hezbollah ammunition is gone, Far more Hezbollah soldiers were killed than IDF soldiers and 2 of thier senior officials were killed.

How on earth would you say Hezbollah got the better of the deal, especially since it's not the Israeli's complaining about the UN ceasefire, it's Iran and Hezbollah calling it "unfair".

Losing land, soldiers and weapons does not equal victory.

I think both sides lost out but I think Israel is the bigger loser. This is the first time that the IDF has not overwhelmingly met it's objectives. That all by itself is a significant acheivment for Hezbullah. Further, they still have the two soldiers and much of their capacity to toss rockets at Israel. Finally, despite what's in the cease-fire and UN resolutions... Lebanon is going to have a very difficult time disarming Hezbullah. Israel for its part has left southern Lebanon in shambles. Depending on how the locals think... they may hate Israel even more for that... or they may blame Hezbullah, which would weaken their position in the region. It was interesting to hear that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was being fairly harshly critisized for his performance. If I remember right, it came from both sides of the political spectrum.

[Msterbeau]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/08/17/bush/

[HipsterDufus]

I think both sides lost out but I think Israel is the bigger loser.  This is the first time that the IDF has not overwhelmingly met it's objectives.  That all by itself is a significant acheivment for Hezbullah.  Further, they still have the two soldiers and much of their capacity to toss rockets at Israel.  Finally, despite what's in the cease-fire and UN resolutions...  Lebanon is going to have a very difficult time disarming Hezbullah.  Israel for its part has left southern Lebanon in shambles.  Depending on how the locals think... they may hate Israel even more for that... or they may blame Hezbullah, which would weaken their position in the region.  It was interesting to hear that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was being fairly harshly critisized for his performance.  If I remember right, it came from both sides of the political spectrum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to have to agree here. I understand that Israel made some immediate headway in some of their goals; however, Hezbollah is the new darling of the Middle Eastern nutjob world. Iran is just dying to give an enemy of Israel more firepower. The 1/3rd of Hezbollah's ammunition that was destroyed will quickly be replenished through thanks to Syria/Iran. <shrug> I'm not a Middle East expert, but it seems that Israel's gains were limited at best.

[Head Wreck]

bush, the wars not over dumbass and they might fight harder to prove you wrong.

[Blackmail]

I think both sides lost out but I think Israel is the bigger loser.  This is the first time that the IDF has not overwhelmingly met it's objectives.  That all by itself is a significant acheivment for Hezbullah.  Further, they still have the two soldiers and much of their capacity to toss rockets at Israel.  Finally, despite what's in the cease-fire and UN resolutions...  Lebanon is going to have a very difficult time disarming Hezbullah.  Israel for its part has left southern Lebanon in shambles.  Depending on how the locals think... they may hate Israel even more for that... or they may blame Hezbullah, which would weaken their position in the region.  It was interesting to hear that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was being fairly harshly critisized for his performance.  If I remember right, it came from both sides of the political spectrum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Israel did not get their ultimate goal of disarming Hezbollah and it costs them billions of dollars and lives. But it did get what it wanted for the last 6 years, which is for hezbollah to move from the Israeli border where they've been tossing missles pretty much indiscriminately for 6 years without reprocussion. This won't happen anymore.

[phee]

Israel did not get their ultimate goal of disarming Hezbollah and it costs them billions of dollars and lives.  But it did get what it wanted for the last 6 years, which is for hezbollah to move from the Israeli border where they've been tossing missles pretty much indiscriminately for 6 years without reprocussion.  This won't happen anymore.

Kind of a lose win lose win.... er.... um..... kinda like any war I guess

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think in the long run Hezbollah, Iran and Syria are the losers. Hezbollah’s power in southern Lebanon has been severely crippled. For the first time in 29 years, Lebanon is taking control of its southern region from Syria. Though I doubt they are going to try to enforce the UN resolution (1590 I think) to disarm Hezbollah. I think they will leave that to the International force from the UN. Israel may not have gotten exactly what they wanted, right now, but everything is setup to get it within a few short years. Iran was not able to get the supply planes (full of more long range rockets) to them that they wanted to... because Iraq and Turkey would not clear the planes to cross their air space.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Globally / Historcially its has been since the earliest days, becomming less and less politically "accptable" to have violent solutions to problems. For many it wouldnt even occur to them to use force to solve an issue. I like this growing concept I think. Its a growing taboo to think otherwise in much (but certianly not all) of the devloped world.

Unintended pacifism i think is the eventual state of things. With a billion wars from here to there.

The quickness with which the outside world intervened on this (and other issues) is encouraging. Do we still have a long way to go? Sure. But dont be fooled, on the scale of centuries, the world is a more peaceful place per capita than it has ever been.

The idea of "agression solves issues" is losing its power and will continue to do so, it will still be a long time comming before we have a "global culture" but its on its way. Its a question of when more than of if.

Is this good ? Im not totally sure, but im guessing it is. Then "winners" after every "calmed down" period of violence is the whole planet im guessing. Each time there is this sort of violence the voices of peacefulness grow in strength sometimes in a very time-dealyed way. There are HUGE ups and downs with this but the overall trend is toward less and less violence on a very wide timescale.

Wouldnt think im a pretty hardcore military history buff from this above tree huggy sounding crap would you? heh. =D

[BrassFusion]

Globally / Historcially its has been since the earliest days, becomming less and less politically "accptable" to have violent solutions to problems. For many it wouldnt even occur to them to use force to solve an issue.  I  like this growing concept I think. Its a growing taboo to think otherwise in much (but certianly not all) of the devloped world. 

Unintended pacifism i think is the eventual state of things.  With a billion wars from here to there. 

The quickness with which the outside world intervened on this (and other issues) is encouraging.  Do we still have a long way to go? Sure.  But dont be fooled,  on the scale of centuries, the world is a more peaceful place per capita than it has ever been.

The idea of "agression solves issues" is losing its power and will continue to do so, it will still be a long time comming before we have a "global culture" but its on its way.  Its a question of when more than of if.

Is this good ? Im not  totally sure, but im guessing it is.  Then "winners" after every "calmed down" period of violence is the whole planet im guessing.  Each time there is this sort of violence the voices of peacefulness grow in strength sometimes in a very time-dealyed way.  There are HUGE ups and downs with this but the overall trend is toward less and less violence  on a very wide timescale.

Wouldnt think im a pretty hardcore military history buff from this above tree huggy sounding crap would you? heh.  =D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like the optimistic way you think. I don't necessarily agree with it from the point of wars, however.

The reason that hippie pacifists like me (well not really, but for example) can live day to day knowing there's a war on the other side of the world is because we're not there. We're coddled in a cone of silence and we don't fight as hard as we should to promote peace. Until every hippie has actually been IN a warzone, there are going to be 9 people content to sit around and get high for every 1 person who wants to actually do something constructive to end wars. And that ratio's only going to get higher if there are fewer wars in the world. So I think it'll be like a see-saw cycle. We're heading toward a downswing where people aren't content to be at war because it affects them directly, but after 20 or so years (or maybe less) of comparative peace in this country, there'll be another fucking war we have to get involved in.

Aw shit. If I have an 18-year-old son in 20 or so years when we invade China and there's a draft, I'm going to go on a killing spree.

[torn asunder]

and we don't fight as hard as we should to promote peace.

i just really enjoyed this "oxymoron-ish" statement, :laughing (and no, i'm not calling you a moron!)

fight to promote peace... hehe...

[BrassFusion]

i just really enjoyed this "oxymoron-ish" statement, :laughing  (and no, i'm not calling you a moron!) 

fight to promote peace... hehe...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well maybe your MOM'S an oxymoron!!! :whistling

[phee]

Well maybe your MOM'S an oxymoron!!!  :whistling

I am raising everyones warning level to mauve...

now back to the topic...

[torn asunder]

I am raising everyones warning level to mauve...

now back to the topic...

i really prefer mauve, or maybe chartreuse... :erm

[Head Wreck]

Si vis Pacem, Para bellum

[The Void]

Our president is getting delusional as his terms wears on...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6081400094.html

Hassan Nesralllah seems to be suffering from the same affliction of the mind...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ld/15154059.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought he was delusional from the start, but that's just my humble opinion. *lol*

[Soulrev]

I would say I'm so fuckin sick and tired of those god damned bastards in the Middle East with their fucking bullshit that I'm getting closer every day to making my own lifelong agenda to kill every last Allah worshipping son of a bitch until they're all gone because it's the only way this will ever stop.

Does anyone else see this? This shit is NEVER going to end until either A) They're all dead, B) One of those nations kills everyone else, or C) Jesus comes back. Until one of those three things happen, there will ALWAYS be terrorism, there will ALWAYS be stupid fuckin rag heads killing in the name of Allah. Those people are war mongers and they always will be. Bloodshed is in their genes and in their beliefs and they will NEVER live peacefully.

[phee]

I would say I'm so fuckin sick and tired of those god damned bastards in the Middle East with their fucking bullshit that I'm getting closer every day to making my own lifelong agenda to kill every last Allah worshipping son of a bitch until they're all gone because it's the only way this will ever stop.

Does anyone else see this? This shit is NEVER going to end until either A) They're all dead, B) One of those nations kills everyone else, or C) Jesus comes back. Until one of those three things happen, there will ALWAYS be terrorism, there will ALWAYS be stupid fuckin rag heads killing in the name of Allah. Those people are war mongers and they always will be. Bloodshed is in their genes and in their beliefs and they will NEVER live peacefully.

A bit one sided don't you think? I mean if it were as simple as the "Allah worshipers" are bad... then the problem would be over.... I am sure there are just as many "If only every Christ Worshiping/Yowey Worshiping SOB's would just die... these problems would just stop"

but that's not the way it is... it really comes down to human nature... and not who's imaginary friend is best... that is just the tool that people in power use to control the masses

[littlepinkkitty]

as a jew and a lover of israel i hated to see the cease fire. I have family and friends in israel ansd they say that there were arabs dancing in then streets becuase they think they won. No body won. Israel went to war because hizbullah took hostages, where are the hostages? Are they dead?

I went to a pro israel rally and saw protestors outside. One had an israeli flag with a swatstika in the place of the star of david. What if a holocaust survivor saw that?They were calling jews nazis! Did you know martin luther king was a zionist?

I had to stop watching the news because it depressed me so much. Israelis never went and suicide bombed busses with innocent people on it. Do people really beleive that a terrorist organization will stop being violent just because of the cease fire. These are people that were able to get onto a bus full of school children and blow it up. Who really are the nazis?

[BrassFusion]

as a jew and a lover of israel i hated to see the cease fire. I have family and friends in israel ansd they say that there were arabs dancing in then streets becuase they think they won. No body won. Israel went to war because hizbullah took hostages, where are the hostages? Are they dead?

I went to a pro israel rally and saw protestors outside. One had an israeli flag with a swatstika in the place of the star of david. What if a holocaust survivor saw that?They were calling jews nazis! Did you know martin luther king was a zionist?

I had to stop watching the news because it depressed me so much. Israelis never went and suicide bombed busses with innocent people on it. Do people really beleive that a terrorist organization will stop being violent just because of the cease fire. These are people that were able to get onto a bus full of school children and blow it up. Who really are the nazis?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...The Nazis.

[Blackmail]

A bit one sided don't you think? I mean if it were as simple as the "Allah worshipers" are bad... then the problem would be over.... I am sure there are just as many "If only every Christ Worshiping/Yowey Worshiping SOB's would just die... these problems would just stop"

but that's not the way it is... it really comes down to human nature... and not who's imaginary friend is best... that is just the tool that people in power use to control the masses

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But the Christ Worshippers aren't the ones beheading people on the internet or blowing up busses, or starting wars by kidnapping soldiers.

Obviously not all Muslims are bad. Most are good, in America muslims are just like everyone else.

But there is certainly a problem with a large lot of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, some people in Jordan and Saudi Arabia - and a lot of people from the same region who have the same religious beliefs.

The saving grace is that it was once the Christians who acted like this in the days of the crusades and now Christianity's name does not get used to wage holy wars. So in time, hopefully, Islam will not be the justification for terrorism and murder.

[Der Nister]

I love it whenever any of those middle east morons get their asses kicked and Isreal stops beating the crap out of them and they claim victory.

Yea - because when you're getting your ass kicked and then it stops you've won right?

Fucking dolts.

[Shade Everdark]

Some of them think it is.

And it may well have been. Israel lost a big ol' chunk of its credibility and goodwill worldwide when they mercilessly pounded Hezbollah. And that's the reason people have been laying into the Israelis so hard: we expect them to know better, especially since they get so much help from us. Of course, with them getting aid from our current administration, maybe they don't know any better, but still. Some in Hezbollah I'm sure think it was worth every Lebanese life lost to see Israel's global image damaged so much.