Ladies - The Marines want you.

[Msterbeau]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060820/ap_on_.../recruiters_sex

[HipsterDufus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060820/ap_on_.../recruiters_sex

Oiy vey. That's awful. Corruption starts at the top and leaks its way down. When you're fighting an immoral war, it's no wonder some troops don't know what's right and wrong. =(

[Msterbeau]

It's not just that it's happening to women... it's that these recruiters are taking advantage of people who have little other choice in terms of employemnt and bettering themselves. They have cushy jobs (Relative to those serving on the front lines) and yet the still want more....

I think a good penalty would be to send them to Iraq until it's over. No chance for a break. If they survive... then let them be a barracks bitch for women recruits until their term of punishment is over.

[Brenda Starrr]

Wow. Just....wow.

[BrassFusion]

I know I'm gonna get some hate-on for this, but... after reading some of the testimonials, it doesn't look like the situations were violent so much as coercive.

Why in the world would women who can't either just say no to (or ATTEMPT to physically defend themselves from) an unwanted advance even consider joining the military? What kind of soldier would a woman like that make?

[Msterbeau]

I know I'm gonna get some hate-on for this, but... after reading some of the testimonials, it doesn't look like the situations were violent so much as coercive.

Why in the world would women who can't either just say no to (or ATTEMPT to physically defend themselves from) an unwanted advance even consider joining the military? What kind of soldier would a woman like that make?

Consider yourself slapped silly.

Did you not read my post...?? Some of them feel like they have no alternative out of whatever crap situation they're in. They're trying to make a better life for themselves and they get taken advantage of. Sure they could say no... but in their place, that's too big a risk. Soldiers don't all have to have giant balls of steel...

[Steven]

Soldiers don't all have to have giant balls of steel...

yes we do. (kidding!)

[BrassFusion]

The ones who don't have giant balls of steel should have giant ovaries of steel. Where's the risk in turning down a sexual advance from a military recruiter? If the asshole turns you down because you don't give it up, either A. tattle on his ass or B. go to a different recruiter.

Edit: I mean holy shit, what does it say about women when they're EXPECTED to just submit to sexual exploitation like that? We have to fucking stand up for ourselves, for once, or the whole feminist movement was a waste.

Also... look at all the pretty new smilies.

Don't see what use this one's going to be...

[Msterbeau]

The ones who don't have giant balls of steel should have giant ovaries of steel. Where's the risk in turning down a sexual advance from a military recruiter? If the asshole turns you down because you don't give it up, either A. tattle on his ass or B. go to a different recruiter.

I'm pretty sure that's completely beside the point. Recruiters shouldn't be doing this shit. Period.

[BrassFusion]

I'm pretty sure that's completely beside the point. Recruiters shouldn't be doing this shit. Period.

Well yeah, can't argue with that. But the women in question's first line of defense shouldn't be a class action lawsuit after the fact.

[Medea]

What's happening to these women is horrible.

But I can see where Erin is coming from too.

The thing is though, these are girls that are still just -thinking- about going into the military. Girls that are 16, 17, 18 and unsure of what they're going to do with their life. When you enter the military and go through boot camp, they TEACH you discipline, how to defend yourself, etc.

Though I also agree that they shouldn't be suing the US Govt. or Military for what happened to them, unless there is some obvious sort of neglect on their part, which the story didn't seem to indicate.

What they SHOULD do, however, is press criminal or military charges and make sure these men get punished for what they do.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct. Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

[phee]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct. Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

This is true... the military while it looks after it's own... if they find out that you have broken the law... they almost have no mercy at all...

[BrassFusion]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct.

Haven't Catholic priests been "disciplined" for molesting all those altar boys? There's no way to tell whether they were fairly punished for their actions.

Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

And this assertion is just flat absolutely ridiculous, I'm sorry... how does one "prove" a rape has taken place if the rapee doesn't admit to being an unwilling victim?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Simple. Go to the hospital beaten and bruised. They do a rape kit. Then they ask you if the sex was consensual. If you say no and don't press charges, you go to jail for obstruction of justice.

Perhaps you could have asked that question with out the insult first?

[BrassFusion]

I'm sure the people that DIDN'T draft that requirement realize that it would discourage women to seek medical and psychological attention if they didn't want to press charges on their attacker.

That, and that it wouldn't do them any good to punish the victims in that circumstance. Until you have some way to back up your claim that the military punishes rape victims who don't press charges against their attackers, I don't believe it.

Perhaps you could have asked that question with out the insult first?

Whatever you say, Mark II. :eyeroll

Heh. I made a funny.

[phee]

Be nice people please!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I am being nice.

BF - First off.. my name is Gary, Not Mark. Second, What happened to your statement that until someone proves something to be false you believe it to be possible? Third, you have never been in the military, so, you have no clue what Military Justice is. BTW, I capatilized that because it's a proper noun and appears in all military manuals that way.

[BrassFusion]

I am being nice.

BF - First off.. my name is Gary, Not Mark. Second, What happened to your statement that until someone proves something to be false you believe it to be possible? Third, you have never been in the military, so, you have no clue what Military Justice is. BTW, I capatilized that because it's a proper noun and appears in all military manuals that way.

H'lo Gary! Good to know your real name, finally, it's been keeping me up nights.

Henceforth you shall be known as Gary, and the Mark I've been referring to shall be known as "Pre-Gary." I honestly thought Mark II sounded a lot cooler. And if you don't know the guy... don't automatically assume I'm not complimenting you on your similarity to him.

The assertion that the US military would punish rape victims is preposterous. I say that because it's a travesty of justice, and I would HOPE that if it were true, NOW and the ACLU and just about every civil rights group would be up in arms about it.

How do you know I've never been in the military?

And I didn't question your capitalization here. =) When I did that before, I didn't mean to say it was incorrect, it was just unusual and I wondered why you chose to capitalize the way you did. Like I said then, I still don't know if you're a German transplant.

[Msterbeau]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct. Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

I saw it. I like my punishment better.

[Steven]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct. Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

well...yes and no.

its harsh, yes. I will give you that. But also bear in mind - there is a great deal that is locked inside that never gets out for public consumption. Ever. What the press is able to dig up is in all probability, a drop in the bucket.

And in theory I understand what your saying about the possibility of going to jail yourself if you dont press charges, but usually there are some extenuating circumstances (such as protecting the Brass) that would lead to such a drastic end result.

As for the stories about recruiters abuse....I'm sure there is a great deal of truth to those stories. Happened in my day, didint stop there. I know that holdover companies also have NCO's that have raped or demanded sexual favors in exchange for favorable orders and placement. This also is a fact. And there are NCO's who have taken advantage of new recruits while in boot camp. This too - is a fact.

In fairness (if there is such a thing) I also know that female soldiers have offerred themselves as part of the exchange willingly. Sometimes in groups. Sad but true.

[mallochai]

I am not getting into this. No way.

The ones who don't have giant balls of steel should have giant ovaries of steel. Where's the risk in turning down a sexual advance from a military recruiter? If the asshole turns you down because you don't give it up, either A. tattle on his ass or B. go to a different recruiter.

Edit: I mean holy shit, what does it say about women when they're EXPECTED to just submit to sexual exploitation like that? We have to fucking stand up for ourselves, for once, or the whole feminist movement was a waste.

I would, however, just like to point out that not EVERY woman is a feminist, nor does every woman believe in the fundamentals of the feminist movement.

In addition, I'd like to point out that, if you've never been a victim of abuse, you might not understand the mentality of someone who has been abused, sexually or otherwise. If you have, then you've obviously become stronger for it, and forgotten what it might have been like to be young, desperate, and afraid. Sure... these girls could say no, they could go to another recruiter, but they could also be too scared to say no, for lots of reasons people like you and I might find ridiculous, but would also be completely valid.

And now, I'd like to reiterate that I'm not getting involved.

*goes back to her hole*

[Homicidalheathen]

Oh god. Sorry peeps but don't even get me started on Marines today. Just don't.

[n0Mad]

Did people miss this part:

"A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees."

Military discipline is far harsher than anything you get outside the military. These people have commited crimes. The military punished them. Most likely, they lost that cushy job and thier freedom, depending on what they did. The military doesn't stand for sexual misconduct. Infact, if your raped and don't press charges... you will go to jail.

Did people miss this part?

Most recruiters found guilty of sexual misconduct are disciplined administratively, facing a reduction in rank or forfeiture of pay; military and civilian prosecutions are rare.

And this part? (Underlining is mine.)

In Gainesville, Fla., a 20-year-old woman told this story: Walking into an Army recruiting station last summer, she was greeted by Sgt. George Kirkman, a 6-foot-4, 220-pound soldier. Kirkman is 41.

He was friendly and encouraging, but told her she might be a bit too heavy. He asked if she wanted to go to the gym with him. She agreed, and he drove her to his apartment complex.

There, he walked her to his apartment, pulled out a laptop, and suggested she take a basic recruiting aptitude test. Afterward, Kirkman said he needed to measure her. Twice. He said she had to take her pants off. And he attacked her.

Kirkman, who did not respond to repeated requests for an interview, pleaded no contest to sexual battery in January and is on probation and a registered sexual offender. He's still in the military, working now as a clerk in the Jacksonville, Fla., Army recruiting office.

[phee]

She is stupid and he is a monster