Smooth Move John....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

That depends on how you look at it. Morale plays a big part in "staying alive" in a combat zone. The troops "hear" what the people back home say. Constant bashing of the job they are doing, never getting recognition by the media and the left for the good things they do, the constant focus on a few bad apples... all kill morale. Low morale means more death.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Let me clarify for those that like to read into things...

I am not saying Bush is Blameless. I am saying that not all the blame should sit on his shoulders for those 108 job openings.

[phee]

Let me clarify for those that like to read into things...

I am not saying Bush is Blameless. I am saying that not all the blame should sit on his shoulders for those 108 job openings.

I can agree with that assesment

[pharoh]

That depends on how you look at it. Morale plays a big part in "staying alive" in a combat zone. The troops "hear" what the people back home say. Constant bashing of the job they are doing, never getting recognition by the media and the left for the good things they do, the constant focus on a few bad apples... all kill morale. Low morale means more death.

This I agree withh 100%

[BrassFusion]

That depends on how you look at it. Morale plays a big part in "staying alive" in a combat zone. The troops "hear" what the people back home say. Constant bashing of the job they are doing, never getting recognition by the media and the left for the good things they do, the constant focus on a few bad apples... all kill morale. Low morale means more death.

I never hear any of my hippie peacenik friends bash the troops in general- quite the opposite, in most cases. We're bashing the management.

[Shade Everdark]

Let me clarify for those that like to read into things...

I am not saying Bush is Blameless. I am saying that not all the blame should sit on his shoulders for those 108 job openings.

Yeah, the Republican-controlled Congress and the SecDef both need to accept responsibility for their roles in our Middle East debacle.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

true

and so do the people in the Media

and the Democratic party

and a great many people on the street

and anyone and everyone that does things to ruin thier morale.

[phee]

true

and so do the people in the Media

and the Democratic party

and a great many people on the street

and anyone and everyone that does things to ruin thier morale.

I agree with almost all of it...

But what do you mean by mean by "ruin morale?"

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yep... sure looks like only the poor join... odd... there are more of the "richest" than there is the "poorest"

Hrmmm... those damn rich kids.... How dare they make up a larger proportion of the military than the porr kids....

and the militarys is all minoritys.... just forget that 75% are white

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

We, the civilians they joined to serve, sitting back like arm chair quarter backs second geussing everything they do. By not demanding to hear something other than death tolls. By branding them all rapists and torturers all because of a few bad apples. By the media constantly telling them they have failed. OPur schools trying to drive the recruiters off campus... like joining the military is some kind of shamefull dishonest action. By never even once telling them.... "Good Job, Thank you." even when they fail.

Thats how we ruin thier morale.

[phee]

SO we should not question what they are doing or why they or there?

[odims_sphere]

We, the civilians they joined to serve, sitting back like arm chair quarter backs second geussing everything they do. By not demanding to hear something other than death tolls. By branding them all rapists and torturers all because of a few bad apples. By the media constantly telling them they have failed. OPur schools trying to drive the recruiters off campus... like joining the military is some kind of shamefull dishonest action. By never even once telling them.... "Good Job, Thank you." even when they fail.

Thats how we ruin thier morale.

For me, none of that stuff bothered me. The biggest morale killer was the morters and rockets that blew us up every day. To a soldier in battle politics don't mean shit. We had a Job to do and we just wanted to stay alive while doing it.

As for Kerry's comments, I personally believe he was making a crack at Bush being stupid and getting us into the war to begin with. I don't feel he was directing that at the troops themselves keep in mind he is a vietnam vet.

[AntiHero]

Isn't there something better to put in the news than John Kerry taking a shot at the Bush administration? Must have been a couple of slow news days this week.

Also, FNC had text scrolling across the screen claiming that 99% of the military were high school grads. I could have sworn when I was looking into serving my country a high school diploma or g.e.d was a requirement.

one last thing: THE 04' ELECTION IS OVER, TAKE THOSE STUPID STICKERS OFF OF YOUR CARS!!!!

[pomba gira]

Having the "right" to say something doesn't mean you don't have to face the consequences if anyone doesn't like it. However true it may have been (whichever way he "really" meant it)... and I could go on a huge rant here about military recruiting in low-income area high schools... it was a godawful dumb thing to say right before an important election.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Odims. Kerry is a known basher of the military. Yes, he was in vietnam. As soon as he came home he testified before congress that every man over there was a baby butcher. Look at his voting record in congress when it comes to the military. look at the last 30 years of his speachs. He hates the military and trash talks them every time he opens his moouth.

Pomba. They do recruit in poor areas. Not very damn many join though, Look at the graphs above. Those are the real figures. The majority of the military is from the middle class. More rich kids join than poor kids. Though not as many as the middle class. It's safe to say that the majority of the military is middle class white kids.

Which brings up the point that Kerry, when fighing to keep the draft in 1972 or should i say fighting against an all volinteer military, he predicted that if we got rid of the draft the military would be mostly made up of the "poor" and be "brown".

Kerry is a fucking asshole that needs to keep his big mouth shut. People need to stop buying into the bullshit he speaks and look at the things he does. His own party condemed his most recent slam on the military. I know that he was trying to slam Bush. He worded it wrong. You have to think about what he said before you get it. Well, most people do. Every one else is smart enough realize the most people are going to take it as a bash on the troops.

aahhh fuck. i can't get everything out that i want to say. I rally hate my brain sometimes.

There is so much more to say on troop moral. Comparing now with with WWII and Vietnam.

I could go on for a while on recruiting, the make up of the military and the Democrats making statements about bringing back the draft. Two democratics senators are already writing bills for it. Just waiting for control of Congress.

I could write a book on the evil piece of shit that we call John.

If I could just slow down and get it all out before it's gone...

I should just go to bed. I have some tossing and turning to do.

[BrassFusion]

Yep... sure looks like only the poor join... odd... there are more of the "richest" than there is the "poorest"

Notice the arc of the curve here is right over 35K.

Median household income.

HOUSEHOLD.

And honestly... the table you have there breaks down the household income groups into approximately 20% brackets, each of which have very comparable percentages of recruitments. Notice that 50K-200K is all in one big lump because only 20% of the population fits into that bracket. I wouldn't call anyone in a lower bracket than that "well off." What does YOUR family make annually, Mark?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Household is the word every Government agency uses. These income levels are what everyone uses to determine where the money is and where it goes.

Right now, the Average household in the USA is 2.59 so lets just call it 3. The US Average household income is just about $43000. "Low Income" for a Household of 3 is a little under $25000. Poverty level is $19,500. All of these numbers are relative. There are many factors in determining how well off a Household is. Just saying something like anyone who earns under $50k is not well off just shows that you don't know what your talking about when it comes to economics. BTW, that Bracket that you so wish to be in, yet dispise so much.. the 50k on up... they pay 80% of all taxes. Most people that earn under 50k pay none at all. If you apid taxes and you make under 30k, then you need to have someone else do you tax returns. You got screwed by who ever filed them.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The point still stands though... Most of the military... around 70% is middle income white kids. NOT poor black and latino kids like the Liberal Media and Liberal Democrats like to say.

[BrassFusion]

Household is the word every Government agency uses. These income levels are what everyone uses to determine where the money is and where it goes.

Right now, the Average household in the USA is 2.59 so lets just call it 3. The US Average household income is just about $43000. "Low Income" for a Household of 3 is a little under $25000. Poverty level is $19,500. All of these numbers are relative. There are many factors in determining how well off a Household is. Just saying something like anyone who earns under $50k is not well off just shows that you don't know what your talking about when it comes to economics. BTW, that Bracket that you so wish to be in, yet dispise so much.. the 50k on up... they pay 80% of all taxes. Most people that earn under 50k pay none at all. If you apid taxes and you make under 30k, then you need to have someone else do you tax returns. You got screwed by who ever filed them.

Jesus Christ, man. You think we povs don't pay taxes? I make a little under FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR (that the government knows about, at any rate), and I'm taxed out the ass on it, because I'm "self employed" as a contracted teacher and they bypass deductions. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

I gotta say, I'm a little bit offended that you think it's all wine and roses for people with shit incomes.

The point still stands though... Most of the military... around 70% is middle income white kids. NOT poor black and latino kids like the Liberal Media and Liberal Democrats like to say.

35K household isn't middle income, and why are you bringing race into this? I don't care what color poor people are.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I'm not bringing race into anything. Read everything I write. Kerry brings race into it. It's one of his major reasons for supporting a draft.

I am going to go listen to some Pink Floyd and talk to a rock.