What's Your Opinion On Ultimatums?

[sass_in_the_pants]

Our friend Stephen was issued an ultimatum by his girlfriend - propose by summer, or she walks.

All of the girls in our group were horrified by this, except, of course, me.

Their thinking went like this - 'That's not the RIGHT way to go about this!' and 'He should propose to her because he loves her, not because she made him.' and 'He should be able to act when he feels it's right to act.'

I disgree with all of the above.

He knows she wants to get married and have children. She has never been shy about that. She's got her eye on Stephen to fill those roles. She has also never been shy about that. But, if he is unwilling to be that person in her life, then I say stop stringing her along and let her find someone who WILL be that person for her. He shouldn't hold up HER life just because he's got some phobia about weddings.

Oh yeah, and she won't propose to him because, as of right now, he would say 'no, baby, let's just wait'.

[Steven]

Our friend Stephen was issued an ultimatum by his girlfriend - propose by summer, or she walks.

All of the girls in our group were horrified by this, except, of course, me.

Their thinking went like this - 'That's not the RIGHT way to go about this!' and 'He should propose to her because he loves her, not because she made him.' and 'He should be able to act when he feels it's right to act.'

I disgree with all of the above.

He knows she wants to get married and have children. She has never been shy about that. She's got her eye on Stephen to fill those roles. She has also never been shy about that. But, if he is unwilling to be that person in her life, then I say stop stringing her along and let her find someone who WILL be that person for her. He shouldn't hold up HER life just because he's got some phobia about weddings.

Oh yeah, and she won't propose to him because, as of right now, he would say 'no, baby, let's just wait'.

based on all of the above I only have one question then:

why is she with him?

[Homicidalheathen]

I agree. Now he knows what its going to take to keep her and that she has goals he is not willing to live up to. Good for her for not wasting time on someone not willing to meet those goals.

[Steven]

if we cant strip our relationships down to the nitty gritty then we'll have nothing to stand on when life forces us to peel the layers back.

if this girl gets married this way then she starts her life long quest rooted in fear, distrust, imbalance, and general fuck upedness.

[Brenda Starrr]

People should marry because the WANT to. Because their HEARTS are in it. Because they know that they'll grow old together. Not because of some form of pressure from one or the other. It won't last.

[Onyx]

Yep, what Brenda and Steven said.

[BrassFusion]

What everybody else said, plus:

That's the stupidest ultimatum I've ever heard. If she really thinks he'll change his mind in the summer, she should propose to him then... but if she really values the relationship as it is, why does she need the validation of marriage?

[bav]

if we cant strip our relationships down to the nitty gritty then we'll have nothing to stand on when life forces us to peel the layers back.

if this girl gets married this way then she starts her life long quest rooted in fear, distrust, imbalance, and general fuck upedness.

Quoted for truth.

[maeve]

Ultimatums....Don't make them, don't take them

[bean]

Ultimatums cause problems. Instead of issuing an ultimatum, they should discuss the issue(s) at hand. There may be a damn good reason why he hasn't proposed yet. It's better to wait a little longer and be happy than to rush things and be miserable.

[the eternal]

Agreed.

They need to discuss why he's not ready to get married, since it seems apparent why she IS.

Maybe he has things to work through. Then, once he does, he'll be ready.

Maybe he has unfounded fears that nedd to be validated and discussed, instead of Marry me Now! Marry Me now!"

Bean and I give each other "flexible ultimatums"

We set certain things to happen in the future, though we know it cant happen at a certain moment.

The difference is we're on the same page. (at least about most things)

If after discussing you find he's not going to be on the same page, think about it and she may want to say goodbye.

[Shade Everdark]

There is only one acceptable answer to this ultimatum: "There is the door; I suggest you use it."

[torn asunder]

two words...

buh-bye!!

(no matter who it is...)

[Gauge]

fuck.that. dump her ass and run.

[GOREgeouslyDecorated]

I dont think it was fair of her to do that, but I also dont think he should be stringing her along if that's not what h e wants

[Nienna]

I agree with what everyone else is saying... What a psycho thing to do!

[Onyx]

I agree with what everyone else is saying... What a psycho thing to do!

The more I think about this and how I'd feel if some guy told me that I better agree to marry him before summer or he's moving on, yeah, I'd tell him to go ahead and move on now.

It definitely wouldn't make me feel loving toward him, more likely would completely kill any feelings of love if I had any!

[sass_in_the_pants]

I guess I just don't understand why it's psycho. She's got shit to do. She doesn't have time to waste on someone who won't make up his mind. And, with that, she, like others on here, decided that ultimatums are stupid, and dumped his ass.

He's totally fucked up about it now. He loved her, I believe that, but not enough to get over himself. No, it's over and done.

They had talked the issue to death, and he just has this idea in his head, I'm not sure where it's from, but he just thinks once people get married, life sucks. All the talk in the world couldn't show him differently.

She loved him, I believe that, too. He will be moving out of state soon, his job was transferred. He wanted her to come with him, leave her family, her friends (they would be moving to where his family is from), her job (which she loves), all with the promise that eventually he would propose. Maybe-kinda-sorta. That wasn't enough for her. I know this girl. Before Stephen, she had boys tripping over themselves to marry her. Not date, marry, but, I will admit, Stephen is damn charming, and all those other boys just kind of faded away once she met Stephen.

So, I expect things will eventually return to some degree of normalcy for the both of them. In two years, she'll be happily married and Stephen will still be crying in his scotch and soda. Bet. Oh, he'll move on, eventually. Not before her, that's just not his way, but eventually.

Not exactly fairy tale, but they both will get what they wanted. She will marry another, different, equally wonderful man. Stephen gets to keep the freedom he was afraid to lose with marriage. Neither of them knows this yet, but they'll both come out the other end of this just fine. Seperate, but fine.

I just hope in the meantime, he doesn't drink all my scotch...

[BrassFusion]

I guess I just don't understand why it's psycho. She's got shit to do. She doesn't have time to waste on someone who won't make up his mind. And, with that, she, like others on here, decided that ultimatums are stupid, and dumped his ass.

He's totally fucked up about it now. He loved her, I believe that, but not enough to get over himself. No, it's over and done.

They had talked the issue to death, and he just has this idea in his head, I'm not sure where it's from, but he just thinks once people get married, life sucks. All the talk in the world couldn't show him differently.

She loved him, I believe that, too. He will be moving out of state soon, his job was transferred. He wanted her to come with him, leave her family, her friends (they would be moving to where his family is from), her job (which she loves), all with the promise that eventually he would propose. Maybe-kinda-sorta. That wasn't enough for her. I know this girl. Before Stephen, she had boys tripping over themselves to marry her. Not date, marry, but, I will admit, Stephen is damn charming, and all those other boys just kind of faded away once she met Stephen.

So, I expect things will eventually return to some degree of normalcy for the both of them. In two years, she'll be happily married and Stephen will still be crying in his scotch and soda. Bet. Oh, he'll move on, eventually. Not before her, that's just not his way, but eventually.

Not exactly fairy tale, but they both will get what they wanted. She will marry another, different, equally wonderful man. Stephen gets to keep the freedom he was afraid to lose with marriage. Neither of them knows this yet, but they'll both come out the other end of this just fine. Seperate, but fine.

I just hope in the meantime, he doesn't drink all my scotch...

It's still her fault that they broke up.

[Rayne]

I don't agree with ultimatums. Never have, proabably never will. Marriage is a VERY serious thing. I would take Shade's advice in a heartbeat if someone told me that. I don't care who they are and how much I care about them.

[sass_in_the_pants]

It's still her fault that they broke up.

Well, yeah, I mean, she dumped him. You can't very well dump someone and then act like the break-up had nothing to do with you. She needed someone who could make decisions. Stephen is notoriously bad about making decisions. So, now, at least, they are both free to find someone who is better for them.

[pomba gira]

if we cant strip our relationships down to the nitty gritty then we'll have nothing to stand on when life forces us to peel the layers back.

if this girl gets married this way then she starts her life long quest rooted in fear, distrust, imbalance, and general fuck upedness.

Yes.

People should marry because the WANT to. Because their HEARTS are in it. Because they know that they'll grow old together. Not because of some form of pressure from one or the other. It won't last.

Double yes.

If they married, the first time things didn't go well, he would be "well you forced me into this anyway".

Of course there is the chance he really would be OK with marriage but is just one of those guys who needs a kick in the butt to take action or make decisions. But, if I suspected that, I wouldn't give a flat-out ultimatum because ultimata tend to trigger the "fight or flight" reaction... this is something you learn very quickly teaching fucked-in-the-head kids, but it applies to all of us. If I thought he just needed a little push, or had fears that could be worked through, I would sit him down and have a loving but straight talk, a' la Beanie & Eternal's (BeanTernal? ) thoughts. Then not mention it again for a week or so. Then another talk. If no progress at that point, then "sorry but I got my life to live and I can't spend it waiting for you to get it together". I just don't see the need for rancor and emotional bullying in these situations... but that's just me... and I certainly had no aversion to major drama when I was younger. But... my experience is... this way works better.

So I guess, bottom line, this woman made the right decision (based on the info we have here of course), but there are better ways she could have gone about it... that maybe would've led to a better outcome for both parties.

[CatsEyeOfTheWiccan]

Well, if there relenship isn't have the same level or wave length that dosen't make a healthy relenship. In the long run can make hardship..and break the fondation of there relenship.

-CatsEye

[kellygrrrrrl]

She did the right thing by ending the relationship.

IMO

NOw she can find what she needs and he can do what he wants.

[TygerLili]

I agree that in this case that she went about it the wrong way, she should have just told him that he couldn't give her what she wanted and left, but I can definitely understand feeling like you don't want to spend years waiting for someone to feel the way you do now with a good chance that they never will.

I think most ultimatums are mistakes made by those who are young and inexperienced, and who want to believe that love conquers all. If you're with someone who doesn't want the same thing as you it'll save you a lot of prolonged pain if you just end it and don't wait around to see if the other person changes his or her mind. They probably won't, and even if they do it will seem like too little too late and nothing they do will be good enough.