Bush Just Really Really Can't Admit He's Wrong

[odims_sphere]

It is interesting that US citizens, both civillian and millitary can be slaughtered and somehow it's the US's fault. At least now we know that a non-combatent trying to restore a countries infrastructure is the real bad guy and it's ok to cut his head off, justified even. Damn the US for trying to make life a little more civilized. Damn the US for trying to help them not wallow in their own filth and increase the standard of living for the common people. It's a good thing that they are willing to blow up their own children to teach us how bad we are, we should really thank them.

[Steven]

It is interesting that US citizens, both civillian and millitary can be slaughtered and somehow it's the US's fault. At least now we know that a non-combatent trying to restore a countries infrastructure is the real bad guy and it's ok to cut his head off, justified even. Damn the US for trying to make life a little more civilized. Damn the US for trying to help them not wallow in their own filth and increase the standard of living for the common people. It's a good thing that they are willing to blow up their own children to teach us how bad we are, we should really thank them.

I noticed that nobody ever brings up that footage of the release of numerous CHILDREN in Iraqi prisons by US Soldiers upon our occupation. anybody remember that? We never talk about Saddam's history of rape, torture, and heinous crimes against his own. He used WMD on his neighbors, not to mention other creative neat stuff like drilling knee caps with cordless drills. Anybody who's done tours there has seen his opulent palaces - everthing you see that looks gold - IS gold. He's got gold in the shitter room. He had incredible wealth up the wazoo. Yet his own people were struggling. Nobody in here ever mentions the numerous Iraqis who have said "thank you" for this occupation - their points of view also count in the mix.

[BrassFusion]

Then why did they feel they had to make up some bullshit about Saddam's involvement in 9/11?

[Steven]

Then why did they feel they had to make up some bullshit about Saddam's involvement in 9/11?

wish I could answer that one for you Babe, I cant. And, I'm not sure if at first - it was 100% bullshit. We had an agenda that was not 100% honerable I'm sure, but we also had "bad" intelligence. The thing is, in my feeble opinion, we had a form of probable cause due to Saddam's past history (even though we put him there) and his behaviour after the first Desert Storm and his refusal to comply with UN inspection ordinances...his behaviour (very agressive at times) gave us a smoking gun.

And I still beleive that this region's mutual hatred for Mother America did and has created loose alliances between US Foes or potential threats. There is no loyalty among them, save for their mutual salivation over the downfall of America. When you factor in teh "infedel" mindset, to me it's not a stretch.

I beleive (personally) that Saddam DID have WMD or was in the process of attaining them. They are now in the hands of other nations or buried deep within the sands of babylon or are rotating thru the black market.

[Shade Everdark]

wish I could answer that one for you Babe, I cant. And, I'm not sure if at first - it was 100% bullshit. We had an agenda that was not 100% honerable I'm sure, but we also had "bad" intelligence. The thing is, in my feeble opinion, we had a form of probable cause due to Saddam's past history (even though we put him there) and his behaviour after the first Desert Storm and his refusal to comply with UN inspection ordinances...his behaviour (very agressive at times) gave us a smoking gun.

And I still beleive that this region's mutual hatred for Mother America did and has created loose alliances between US Foes or potential threats. There is no loyalty among them, save for their mutual salivation over the downfall of America. When you factor in teh "infedel" mindset, to me it's not a stretch.

I beleive (personally) that Saddam DID have WMD or was in the process of attaining them. They are now in the hands of other nations or buried deep within the sands of babylon or are rotating thru the black market.

You can believe what you want; the evidence indicates that he had no WMDs (and no, 25-year-old canisters with some mustard gas residue do NOT count), and the evidence is what matters. Quite honestly, and I apologize for being blunt here, your belief doesn't matter. It CAN'T matter, because if we ignored evidence and went with our beliefs, our gut, we'd still be living in an age without antibiotics, where man had never walked on the moon, where instant communication around the globe had never been achieved.

And that's a pretty sweeping statement about the Arabic-Muslim world. Don't you think it's generalizations like those that contribute to this morass? Y'know, I seriously hope I'm wrong, but more and more it seems like Gandhi was the anomaly among us. The way we (humanity) conduct ourselves, I become more and more convinced that none of us deserves to inhabit this planet.

[Steven]

You can believe what you want; the evidence indicates that he had no WMDs (and no, 25-year-old canisters with some mustard gas residue do NOT count), and the evidence is what matters. Quite honestly, and I apologize for being blunt here, your belief doesn't matter. It CAN'T matter, because if we ignored evidence and went with our beliefs, our gut, we'd still be living in an age without antibiotics, where man had never walked on the moon, where instant communication around the globe had never been achieved.

And that's a pretty sweeping statement about the Arabic-Muslim world. Don't you think it's generalizations like those that contribute to this morass? Y'know, I seriously hope I'm wrong, but more and more it seems like Gandhi was the anomaly among us. The way we (humanity) conduct ourselves, I become more and more convinced that none of us deserves to inhabit this planet.

point to point?

depends on what you value as evidence.

this example you used about going from the gut and therefore staying in the dark ages....just cant get behind it, I dont see the tie in here. But that's ok, cause my beleif doesent matter.

the sweeping statement I made about the Arab world can be measured and weighed out however, and you seem fond of that approach, a factual basis for an argument. It IS a sweeping generalization. But I stand behind it because i simply beleive its true, and I beleive historically it has a halfway decent foundation, regardles of how Ghandi would have felt about it. Sort of like how we still have racism in this country and we used to beleive in owning black people as property. Ugly, but true and historically relevent.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about Ghandi. He was an anomoly. And I dont see humanity flocking to his teachings or vision, because its not in our nature, something that is also historically relevent.

And then finnally, again I agree with you that none of us "deserves" to inhabit this planet. I never earned my existence, I was born here and I've been trying to work it out ever since.

[BrassFusion]

But I stand behind it because i simply beleive its true

*scattered applause*