Comparison

[jadnifer]

This thread is in response to Troy's thread about the different issues with the candidates.

Correct me if Im wrong, but this is how I feel on this subject.

Okay Roe V Wade is about abortion (killing unborn babies) and the death penalty is killing people that are already alive, however in my opinion an unborn child is already alive.

I understand that the death penalty is killing people that have committed a crime but it still confuses me if you are against one form of murder...shouldnt you be against all forms of murder?

Let me know how you guys feel about this.

This is just my opinion guys and I would like to know yours.

[predaking]

both of these a touchy subjects with alot of people, in my opinion i think abortion should be the woman's choice. No one has the right to tell someone what they can and cannot do envolving something like that. As for the death penality, I do support it so long as the crime warrents it.

[ttogreh]

I am against the death penalty. I am also not a fan of abortion. However, that is rather shallow, to leave it at that.

I don't think the state has any business dealing with matters of life or death. War, abortion, the death penalty... these things are wedge issues. I think real leaders are people that do their best, irrespective of the law, to lower abortion rates, lower crime, and keep the peace.

Of course, some pregnancies are fatal to the mother if not terminated, some monsters in human skin need to be put down mike the animals they are, and speaking softly means nothing if you don't carry a big stick.

It's all about balance... if someone is for the death penalty and against abortion, but abortions and unwanted pregnancies as well as crime are down in their state or city...

[know_buddy_kares]

Honestly... I'm not one for the death penalty crazy like, but I am for it in certain cases...

If someone commits the following, death penalty no excuses...

Pedophiles, anyone who sexually assaults/molests a child who hasn't gone through puberty

Cold blooded premeditated murder. If it's premeditated, then self defence is obviously not a worthy excuse.

Rapists, this could be a fine line between he said she said cases, however if convicted that it was infact rape and one person was never willing and resisted, then rapist should be put to death.

These are of the extreme cases, ones that are clearly black and white. Yes, I think OJ should have gotten the death setence as an example.

As for abortion, personally I'm morally against it. If I get a girl pregnant, I would much rather see her keep it and do all I can to help raise it if she doesn't want to stay with me however, I am very very big on the right to personal freedoms in what someone should choose to care for themselves to include suicide, smoking, drugs, drinking, ect, anything society deems "bad" as long as it does not physically or financhially harm someone else, be a fuckin junkie all you want, so with that I do believe that a woman has every right to have that option of abortion if she should so choose it. And this stretches to a broad horizon of topics such as homosexuality, who the fuck has the right to tell another human being who they should and shouldn't choose to be their partner. Thats one thing I really can't stand about this country, there's always someone trying to tell you how you should live your life in any topic you can think of. Follow your morals for yourself, don't tell others how they should live their life based on your morals.

[hunhee]

both of these a touchy subjects with alot of people, in my opinion i think abortion should be the woman's choice. No one has the right to tell someone what they can and cannot do envolving something like that. As for the death penality, I do support it so long as the crime warrents it.

Umm.. If we're for woman's choice, then what about father's choice? I would like to see more freedoms given to the father's of aborted or un-aborted fetus's.. (but that's kind of another topic all together)..

I believe it is a woman's right to decide, but then again I'm with Jadnifer, if you're all about killing an unborn fetus (and I don't believe fetus's are alive, because otherwise we'd count the conception as the start of their "birthday's" but since this isn't the case, existence to me isn't there till you're born.

But if someone commits a crime against humanity, throw that bloody switch! They honestly don't do it enough. BUT if you're overtly religious, then I suppose this wouldn't work for you because well lets face it, none of us are worthy enough to put judgment against anyone else. YET Republicans are FOR the death penalty. Go Logic!!! wins over all the time..

OH and KBK, watch out what you consider moral, no two people view things the exact same way, and what you find to be moral and what others find to be moral are two completely different things. This is why the government steps in and says..yea or nay to things. Someone has to regulate morality. Why not our government or the church.

[know_buddy_kares]

OH and KBK, watch out what you consider moral, no two people view things the exact same way, and what you find to be moral and what others find to be moral are two completely different things. This is why the government steps in and says..yea or nay to things. Someone has to regulate morality. Why not our government or the church.

Well I tried to write out my opinion the best I could, but I don't believe the government should set morals, they just need to make sure the economy doesn't implode on its self, deal with foreign relations, Keep some sence of order as in organization with some laws such as traffic rules so everyone's on the same sheet of music.

Church.. no way, one religeon can be different than the next.

So please, let me try to clearify what I meant earlier about morals... You can do whatever you want with your life as long as it doesn't harm another person. Such as 2 neighbors being a gay couple. No one has the right to try to make it unlawful for them to be together, or even marry. I don't think anyone has the right to tell a pregnant girl that she can't have her kid aborted, yes personally I find it against my morals, but who am I to tell her she can't do it, it's her life, she's gotta be the one that lives with herself, not me. I know we all could get drawn into alot of detailed hypothetical situations about my opinion, wich would all be on a case by case basis, but just for simplified explanations, this is just how I feel about the whole topic abroad. I hope I explained myself better. If I didn't I apologize, sometimes I do have difficulty trying to explain what I mean.

[Hellion]

Sorry about the threadjack

All I have to say is,..if I had a kid and some someone molests him/her,well the SOB had better hope he gets the death penalty before I get ahold of him,there will be no time for any bleeding hearts to help the molester if I got ahold of the POS..PS: this is if I had a kid and had to deal with something like this,hopefully never,I hate molesters!!!

counciling does nothing for ppl that commit this disgusting crime.it has been proven,IMO if the proof is 100%(making sure no innocent person gets blamed)then punishment should be death,you cannot rehabilitate a molester,nough said.

When it comes to crime and punishment I hope whoever wins takes a hard look at crimes like this.we shall see what the future brings,carry on!!

[sass_in_the_pants]

I believe it is a woman's right to decide, but then again I'm with Jadnifer, if you're all about killing an unborn fetus (and I don't believe fetus's are alive, because otherwise we'd count the conception as the start of their "birthday's" but since this isn't the case, existence to me isn't there till you're born.

If you don't exist before you're born, then what are you?

Also, I would guess that the reason your birthday doesn't start on your conception day is that, though your birthday is obvious, your conception day might not be so apparent.

[hunhee]

If you don't exist before you're born, then what are you?

Also, I would guess that the reason your birthday doesn't start on your conception day is that, though your birthday is obvious, your conception day might not be so apparent.

See, that begs the question.. what ARE you before you're born? What are you before you've even been concieved between two people? Is it any more right to deny an egg to be firtilized by a sperm than aborting an unborn fetus? Most would say an egg is life, and a sperm is life, so What are you? You've got to draw the line somewhere, why not at birth?

Why isn't it immoral for us to think that ejaculating without implantion wrong? That's a form of life, it may not have arms and legs, but it has the indredients to HAVE arms and legs and a brain (and you sentimental people out there, a soul). What makes that sperm and that egg that you pass every once a month not valid? So are we commiting a moral sin once a month (us women) if we go through our periods? We're in essence telling that egg in our bodies they don't have the right to life... and us men who ejaculate with no intention of planting, in essence you're murdering if you want to begin life at that stage.. See where I'm going with this?

So the question is where does life happen? Where does it begin? Where do you draw the lines, and I'm not really asking for your opinions per se, because I know I'm going to get opinionated answers and not solid fact based answers.

[Steven]

This thread is in response to Troy's thread about the different issues with the candidates.

Correct me if Im wrong, but this is how I feel on this subject.

Okay Roe V Wade is about abortion (killing unborn babies) and the death penalty is killing people that are already alive, however in my opinion an unborn child is already alive.

I understand that the death penalty is killing people that have committed a crime but it still confuses me if you are against one form of murder...shouldnt you be against all forms of murder?

Let me know how you guys feel about this.

This is just my opinion guys and I would like to know yours.

that was a good simple question.

I liked it.

Honest anwer time?

Im biased.

I have career criminal relatives and grew up witnessing predator behaviour in many extremes.

I do not beleive that most career predators are capable of rehabilitation.

I do not beleive that we really pour our resources into true rehabilitation anyway.

and I do not beleive in feeding, clothing, and educating career criminal predators - predators beign the operative word there.

so I would kill them myself for 30 bucks and hour and a nice dental plan.

as for abortion....

I beleive in a womans right to choose.

and yet I beleive that most abortions, are wrong.

again, I am biased.

I was once, a baby.

I have held babies.

wiped their poopy little butts.

watched them tear thru the house full of wonderment.

to me a baby is nothing more thatn 100% pure unadulterated magical god breathed potential.

and to kill it.

is exatly that. you killed it.

and - most of the time - it FELT it.

[ttogreh]

Personally, I draw the line at being able to conceptualize pain. An inherently innocent organism that has done nothing wrong, but will experience pure, unmitigated torture while it is killed? Yeah... life... is pain.

[Steven]

See, that begs the question.. what ARE you before you're born? What are you before you've even been concieved between two people? Is it any more right to deny an egg to be firtilized by a sperm than aborting an unborn fetus? Most would say an egg is life, and a sperm is life, so What are you? You've got to draw the line somewhere, why not at birth?

Why isn't it immoral for us to think that ejaculating without implantion wrong? That's a form of life, it may not have arms and legs, but it has the indredients to HAVE arms and legs and a brain (and you sentimental people out there, a soul). What makes that sperm and that egg that you pass every once a month not valid? So are we commiting a moral sin once a month (us women) if we go through our periods? We're in essence telling that egg in our bodies they don't have the right to life... and us men who ejaculate with no intention of planting, in essence you're murdering if you want to begin life at that stage.. See where I'm going with this?

So the question is where does life happen? Where does it begin? Where do you draw the lines, and I'm not really asking for your opinions per se, because I know I'm going to get opinionated answers and not solid fact based answers.

does a sperm feel pain?

does an egg feel pain?

I know Im a bleeding heart.

but ive looked at pictures of "tissue"...thats only 6 weeks old.

little tiny arms and feet and hands and toes.

a mini person about the size of a quarter.

Ive seen the evidence that they have a nervous system allready developed enough to suffer pain from dismemeberment, scraping, and saline burning.

to me this argument is just silly.

you cannot have a developing life force until the joining of the two elements.

its the life force that is beign defended.

\

so lets cut the crap.

look at a developing zygote.

hey look - it looks like a human.

poke it with a needle.

shoot salt solution all over it.

clip its arms and legs off.

or let it develop for awhile, then suck its brain out.

its just tissue.

[Steven]

Personally, I draw the line at being able to conceptualize pain. An inherently innocent organism that has done nothing wrong, but will experience pure, unmitigated torture while it is killed? Yeah... life... is pain.

yeah, but she's got (mom) a life to lead, in fact in 6 years she might make partner, or on two years she gets a 401K, and do you know what childcare costs?

whats a little torture in light of thatt?

[CandyQuackenbush]

My views:

Abortion: I'm for it. It's my body, not yours. If something is in there that I don't want, then I want it out. I refuse to raise a child when I cannot support myself. Why would anyone want to do that to a kid? I wouldn't have it and give it up, because that can hurt a kid even more. It's either you have it, take care of it with knowledge that you are able to take care of yourself and another life, or you don't.

I am also a huge believer on Marriage then Babbies. When you use a baby to stay together, then its just as bad as having it and not have any funds to support it. When you have a baby, and there isn't two people to be there, the that is just as bad too.

Death Penalty: I'm for it. If you can kill for either joy, hate, mental issues, money or any other form on non self defence, then you deserve to be killed for your deed. If it has the knowledge of feer, and understands what another life form is capiable of doing, then it is capiable of being killef for the wrong doing.

If someone killed your loved one, for a car, what would you think? You'd want that S.O.B dead. You want taken from that person and there family, what has happened to yours.

Now what would you feel if your loved one was able to kill that person that tried to attack them, in self defence? You'd be worried to know how they where able to do it, but praise them for doing so.

An abortion is not like killing someone in my eyes. Yes, you are killing a life form, but it doesn't know fear or pain.

[Steven]

But if someone commits a crime against humanity, throw that bloody switch! They honestly don't do it enough. BUT if you're overtly religious, then I suppose this wouldn't work for you because well lets face it, none of us are worthy enough to put judgment against anyone else. YET Republicans are FOR the death penalty. Go Logic!!! wins over all the time..

Have you ever been the victom of a violent crime Hun Hee?

Im not being nasty here...I just want to know.

[Steven]

My views:

Abortion: I'm for it. It's my body, not yours. If something is in there that I don't want, then I want it out. I refuse to raise a child when I cannot support myself. Why would anyone want to do that to a kid? I wouldn't have it and give it up, because that can hurt a kid even more. It's either you have it, take care of it with knowledge that you are able to take care of yourself and another life, or you don't.

I am also a huge believer on Marriage then Babbies. When you use a baby to stay together, then its just as bad as having it and not have any funds to support it. When you have a baby, and there isn't two people to be there, the that is just as bad too.

Death Penalty: I'm for it. If you can kill for either joy, hate, mental issues, money or any other form on non self defence, then you deserve to be killed for your deed. If it has the knowledge of feer, and understands what another life form is capiable of doing, then it is capiable of being killef for the wrong doing.

If someone killed your loved one, for a car, what would you think? You'd want that S.O.B dead. You want taken from that person and there family, what has happened to yours.

Now what would you feel if your loved one was able to kill that person that tried to attack them, in self defence? You'd be worried to know how they where able to do it, but praise them for doing so.

An abortion is not like killing someone in my eyes. Yes, you are killing a life form, but it doesn't know fear or pain.

quick question then...

what do say to the evidence that suggests that a forming fetus DOES feel physical pain in the abortion proces?

That it even tries to swim away or crawl away from the medical devices that are attempting to kill it?

[ttogreh]

We are never going to agree on this. Abortion has to be the most awful debate between human beings that has ever been addressed. However, no one can deny that abortion is the ending of potential. It is an inherently negative act. So we have to see what can be done to reduce negativity, and increase inherently positive acts; adoption, kids waiting for sex, or making fully informed choices about contraception.

Abortion... diminishes us. We need to figure out ways to make us better.

[hunhee]

Have you ever been the victom of a violent crime Hun Hee?

Im not being nasty here...I just want to know.

I understand what it's like to be given up.

I understand the horrid uncertainty of not knowing if I'm going to have a hot meal, and a roof over my head.

I understand how it feels to be rejected.

Why are you asking me this?

[hunhee]

does a sperm feel pain?

does an egg feel pain?

I know Im a bleeding heart.

but ive looked at pictures of "tissue"...thats only 6 weeks old.

little tiny arms and feet and hands and toes.

a mini person about the size of a quarter.

Ive seen the evidence that they have a nervous system allready developed enough to suffer pain from dismemeberment, scraping, and saline burning.

to me this argument is just silly.

you cannot have a developing life force until the joining of the two elements.

its the life force that is beign defended.

\

so lets cut the crap.

look at a developing zygote.

hey look - it looks like a human.

poke it with a needle.

shoot salt solution all over it.

clip its arms and legs off.

or let it develop for awhile, then suck its brain out.

its just tissue.

Umm.. what about when it's only split once? or twice or three times? it's not human yet, doesn't look human does it feel pain?

[ttogreh]

You can't feel pain without a nervous system. Moreover, God is the biggest abortionist that ever was... millions of miscarriages happen every year...

[Steven]

Umm.. what about when it's only split once? or twice or three times? it's not human yet, doesn't look human does it feel pain?

the jury is out on that one.

Ive read and looked at compelling evidence both pro and con.

to me its human.

in the end its up to you to decide on the value of the risk.

[Steven]

I understand what it's like to be given up.

I understand the horrid uncertainty of not knowing if I'm going to have a hot meal, and a roof over my head.

I understand how it feels to be rejected.

Why are you asking me this?

I understand these thigns as well.

and I understand the look and smell of a dead body.

the long term after effects of rape

and child abuse

and physical abuse and assault

it has shaped my values and willingess to judge. and I do. and I do feel worthy to do so.

[Steven]

You can't feel pain without a nervous system. Moreover, God is the biggest abortionist that ever was... millions of miscarriages happen every year...

Im not even going to bother with this one.

[the eternal]

This thread is in response to Troy's thread about the different issues with the candidates.

Correct me if Im wrong, but this is how I feel on this subject.

Okay Roe V Wade is about abortion (killing unborn babies) and the death penalty is killing people that are already alive, however in my opinion an unborn child is already alive.

I understand that the death penalty is killing people that have committed a crime but it still confuses me if you are against one form of murder...shouldnt you be against all forms of murder?

Let me know how you guys feel about this.

This is just my opinion guys and I would like to know yours.

I'm not getting into this fracas, but I will say that Jadnifer is in very esteemed company.

Her point is the exact one that Mother Theresa made when she would speak to the masses.

That said, Jadnifer, you aint no Mother Theresa

[Msterbeau]

The day you can guarantee that ALL children born will have a someone who will love and raise them right out of the womb is the day that I'll consider having abortions outlawed for anything other then medical reasons or conception due to rape.

And yeah... I get that there are a lot of children born and raised by their parents who aren't really loved.

My point being that you have to weigh not only when life begins, but what kind of life the child will have. I find it far more cruel to subject a child to a life devoid of love and care then to cease their life in the womb.