Life

[jadnifer]

I dont know what has gotten into me and wanting to make all of these deep posts but what the hell here we go.

I believe that life starts at the point of conception. I believe that way because a zygote is a living thing that will turn into an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby, and then be born.

I Know that this will all be opinion based, but Im very curious to know what you guys think

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Depends...

and Egg if half a cell.... a Sperm is half a cell....

a cell is a living thing.

As long as we use words like viable or not viable... we dehumanize.. de-life what ever we are talking about...

A germ is alive... a virus is alive... so is a single cell...

[know_buddy_kares]

not to rain on your new topic parade, but why are there 3 new threads having very similar topics of discussion?

[Steven]

I dont know what has gotten into me and wanting to make all of these deep posts but what the hell here we go.

I believe that life starts at the point of conception. I believe that way because a zygote is a living thing that will turn into an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby, and then be born.

I Know that this will all be opinion based, but Im very curious to know what you guys think

I beleive...

....what you beleive.

[jadnifer]

not to rain on your new topic parade, but why are there 3 new threads having very similar topics of discussion?

They are similar yes. But very different in their own respects.

They all spun off from talking about the candidates and what they were for and what they weren't.

[Fierce Critter]

To me, this relates to abortion, so here's what I think.

I believe that there is life at conception. But to me, it is not viable life. And for me, the major point at issue where abortion is concerned is when pain can be felt.

I know this is uber-simplifying things. But to me, so long as the "thing conceived" cannot yet feel pain, it isn't functioning on a level that makes it something that HAS to be brought to full term.

This is really stating how I feel on the subject in a very badly expressed way.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Look for the film "A Silent Scream". It's out there... below is a description.

A Realtime ultrasound video tape and movie of a 12- week suction abortion is commercially available as, The Silent Scream, narrated by Dr. B. Nathanson, a former abortionist. It dramatically, but factually, shows the pre-born baby dodging the suction instrument time after time, while its heartbeat doubles in rate. When finally caught, its body being dismembered, the baby’s mouth clearly opens wide — hence, the title

It has been medically proven that a BABY can feel pain and react to it at 8 weeks from conception.

[jadnifer]

You said it just fine. I understood what you were trying to convey.

[know_buddy_kares]

They are similar yes. But very different in their own respects.

They all spun off from talking about the candidates and what they were for and what they weren't.

no abortion is abortion is abortion..

every aspect of it relates... but ya know what.. if the mods approve of 3topics concerning abortion then who am I to say differently....

[saechalyn]

I believe that the beginning of life is a process and not an instantaneous event. The precursors to that process has already begun in all of us who are fertile. Along the way we make choices about whether to continue that process or stop it; sometimes those choices go the way we want them to, and sometimes they don't.

[phee]

What if life begins not only at conception.... but at the idea of conception? In other words every woman that turns a guy down for sex is committing murder!

[saechalyn]

What if life begins not only at conception.... but at the idea of conception? In other words every woman that turns a guy down for sex is committing murder!

Neat, I'm a serial killer.

[phee]

Neat, I'm a serial killer.

I knew it!!!

[Fierce Critter]

Look for the film "A Silent Scream". It's out there... below is a description.

It has been medically proven that a BABY can feel pain and react to it at 8 weeks from conception.

Thing is, I'm also of a mind that abortions should happen as quick as humanly possible. I'm definitely against late-term.

Only once before Jon had his vasectomy did we have a "the condom broke" scare. I didn't wait to find out if I'd miss a period. I went the NEXT DAY to a clinic to get the morning after pill. It turns out that due to the time in my cycle that this happened, there wasn't any possibility of conception. So I didn't need to get it.

But I really don't understand why anyone needs a ton of time to realize they are/might be pregnant and to have something done about it. Why in the world wait until the fetus is so incredibly human in form to rip it out of your body?

(In case you didn't realize, I'm pro-choice, but somewhat anti-abortion.)

[saechalyn]

It has been medically proven that a BABY can feel pain and react to it at 8 weeks from conception.

It has been medically proven by whom, and when? The journal of the American Medical Association disagrees

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/294/8/947

Conclusions Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester.

Here's a rebuttal to the silent scream (attached, if I did it right)

[the eternal]

Oh my, I didn't know there were still people that watched, let alone believed the silent scream

I remember that Oscar nominated work for best short fiction rebutted in my Women's Studies class about 1000 years ago when I was in college.

----------------------------------------

As for my view--

It all depends on the person.

I'm old, and I still haven't started to live.

On second thought,

I've decided that Life begins at 40, since I alternate taking my knowledge from unsubstantiated DGN posters,

and bumper stickers.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

We can go back and forth all day with links to studys about fetal pain that debunk each other.

It's a hotly contested debate. I'll error on the side of caution.

BTW... I am Pro-Choice, not pro-abortion. That is to say, I believe adoption and keeping it are valid choices.

I also dont think we should try to dehuminize the fetus so noone has to feel guilt for killing it. Notice I did not say murder. I don't think 1st trimester is murder, but it is killing.

I also don't have to forget the cow to eat the steak.

[saechalyn]

I never stated nor meant to imply that abortion is not killing. Abortion absolutely is killing, and anyone who does not admit such is lying to themselves. I don't believe that abortion should be chosen lightly or with a cavalier attitude, and I completely agree that keeping it and adoption are valid choices. I was just pointing out that "medically proven" is not cut and dry...which you also stated, so I think we are basically in agreement here.

[Steven]

Oh my, I didn't know there were still people that watched, let alone believed the silent scream

I remember that Oscar nominated work for best short fiction rebutted in my Women's Studies class about 1000 years ago when I was in college.

----------------------------------------

As for my view--

It all depends on the person.

I'm old, and I still haven't started to live.

On second thought,

I've decided that Life begins at 40, since I alternate taking my knowledge from unsubstantiated DGN posters,

and bumper stickers.

Dude - caution to your tone on this subject, and note that at times only YOUR research seems valid - there are a great many credible professionals who would dismiss what you've just said about faulty research and myths....

[Steven]

What if life begins not only at conception.... but at the idea of conception? In other words every woman that turns a guy down for sex is committing murder!

Phee, please....

[Steven]

We can go back and forth all day with links to studys about fetal pain that debunk each other.

It's a hotly contested debate. I'll error on the side of caution.

godddddddd , no shit.

[Homicidalheathen]

I have had an experience I usually don't share......

When I was 31/2 months pregnant I saw my kids souls enter their bodies.....

I was 'asked' by what I don't know.......If I wanted this. (or coarse I said yes)

It was like a light that came down from the ceiling and had this spinning triangle of light at the end of it, waiting above my belly then when it entered I felt the first kick. Now yes, I am a budhist per se' and this is what they believe but this was NOT self induced.....it just happeded to be I was meditating at the time.

And no I was not high.......I was pregnant lol!!!

However, I dont believe in abortion for ME anyway. If you wanna go do it yourself.....go ahead. Personally I could never do that.

If its an unplanned pregnancy......Alive or not......its YOUR mistake and killing something is not the way out. However if you were raped I can totally understand you not wanting to raise it....so adopt it out!

I had a miscarriage at 17...they thought I could never have kids. I was so heart broken I went off the pill and tried for years before I conceived again.

I talk to lots of girls who regret getting an abortion.

There is this little tiny life inside you, a product of the love you shared with your boyfriend.......how do you kill that???

So whether the soul is in there or not isn't really the question.....its still killing.

Also, I believe in reincarnation and charma.....and I think anyone who is very selfish and never raises a kid, waits FOREVER to get another body the next time around.

Which stunts your growth....spiritually.

I believe it should be kept legal and easy access because some women will do this no matter what and I don't want the days of back alley abortions coming to haunt us....bloody coathangers.......ugh. Everyone should have a choice as to what they want to do with their lives.....and its private and personal and its your body......so......

But I really don't have allot of repsect for people who get them over and over, keep your legs closed or get on the pill damnit!

[the eternal]

Dude - caution to your tone on this subject, and note that at times only YOUR research seems valid - there are a great many credible professionals who would dismiss what you've just said about faulty research and myths....

I give you my best work and all you do is chuckle.

And with this, my latest humor, I get a mild threat.

You're making me cry

OK, not really, but we're done, me and you.

The next time you're late to Al's house, I'm eating all of his meat.

---------------------------------------------

To quote Clerks, "I shouldn't even be (on) here today! "

[Destroit]

I have had an experience I usually don't share......

When I was 31/2 months pregnant I saw my kids souls enter their bodies.....

I was 'asked' by what I don't know.......If I wanted this. (or coarse I said yes)

It was like a light that came down from the ceiling and had this spinning triangle of light at the end of it, waiting above my belly then when it entered I felt the first kick. Now yes, I am a budhist per se' and this is what they believe but this was NOT self induced.....it just happeded to be I was meditating at the time.

And no I was not high.......I was pregnant lol!!!

However, I dont believe in abortion for ME anyway. If you wanna go do it yourself.....go ahead. Personally I could never do that.

If its an unplanned pregnancy......Alive or not......its YOUR mistake and killing something is not the way out. However if you were raped I can totally understand you not wanting to raise it....so adopt it out!

I had a miscarriage at 17...they thought I could never have kids. I was so heart broken I went off the pill and tried for years before I conceived again.

I talk to lots of girls who regret getting an abortion.

There is this little tiny life inside you, a product of the love you shared with your boyfriend.......how do you kill that???

So whether the soul is in there or not isn't really the question.....its still killing.

Also, I believe in reincarnation and charma.....and I think anyone who is very selfish and never raises a kid, waits FOREVER to get another body the next time around.

Which stunts your growth....spiritually.

I believe it should be kept legal and easy access because some women will do this no matter what and I don't want the days of back alley abortions coming to haunt us....bloody coathangers.......ugh. Everyone should have a choice as to what they want to do with their lives.....and its private and personal and its your body......so......

But I really don't have allot of repsect for people who get them over and over, keep your legs closed or get on the pill damnit!

I, scientifically, don't think your crazy. As a woman of biology I can tell you that, coincidentally, that's roughly the same time a fetal heart begins to beat. Creepy...no? Meaning that your daughter's souls entered about the time their hearts started ticking and their brains started flicking, which to me, makes sense.

Which...is why I'm pro-choice. I would never get an abortion, I think it's absolutely disgusting and a horrible cop-out. As a Christian I would hope anyone that gets one for a selfish reason (i.e. her life or well being is not threatened) is looked down upon and gets a chance to sit in purgatory for a good long time to think about what they've done, since it's appalling. However, as an American citizen, I go along with the separation of church and state and I think women should be able to get one up until 3 months. It's murder, but like HH said, if we don't let them they're just going to do it anyway with coat hangers.

But...with that, if we can murder babies in America....why shouldn't we be able to murder people who have already been born?

As an Ame

[hunhee]

Oh for the love of peat! you guys who think that having a baby and giving it up is so much better.. PFFT!!!!! *shakes head*