Barack Obama

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Considering that people are actually starting to look at his record, his history and the people that he has close to him...

Do you think Barack has a chance to make it to the White House?

[phee]

Considering that people are actually starting to look at his record, his history and the people that he has close to him...

Do you think Barack has a chance to make it to the White House?

A chance? yes

Likely? No

[Fierce Critter]

Sigh.

I think the country is far, far too stuck in prejudice & racism to vote him in.

I mean, come on. Do you see southern white boys voting for him?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Not after finding out that he has gone to that Church for the last 20 years and listened to the racists and anti-American crap that "pastor" spews. Not with links to the New Black Panthers on his website.

His polls numbers are dropping like a rock now that people are actually looking at him with the same level of scrutiny that they did everyone else.

[ttogreh]

In all honesty, this whole thing seems to be guilt by association. Not that I feel that he shouldn't have to speak on his supporters, but I fear that Reverend Wright is a gift to the racists that hate Barack Obama because of the color of his skin.

I don't know. The fact is, as divisive and and as inflammatory the statements that Wright has made, along with the outright falsehoods on HIV... The man is speaking from a perspective of Jim Crow and frustration.

Obama shouldn't throw the man under the bus, but Wright makes him less likely to win.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

it's also a gift to those of us who needed to know what kind of person Barrack is.

The President needs to be able to make good decisions. Barack had 20 years to figure out what a racist his pastor was and then decide that he didn't need to expose his children to that.

So, he threw his grand mother under the bus instead of Wright.

I'll have to gather them up. Barack has many ties to racists. Wright, Ferican and the Black Panthers are just a few of them

[phee]

Of course the same could be said of our current President as well...

[freydis]

It's hard to say who's going to come out on top of all this...... eep. Aside from all those associations, the (i think it was indonesian?) muslim school he went to when he was young puts people off in the current political climate, too.

[ttogreh]

"Threw his grandmother under the bus?" Have you even watched the speech? Have you read the transcript?

"Threw his grandmother under the bus..." is a blatant and complete distortion of what was said by Barack Obama in Philadelphia yesterday. Phee... I'm trying here, I really am, but he isn't making it easy.

[torn asunder]

"Threw his grandmother under the bus?" Have you even watched the speech? Have you read the transcript?

"Threw his grandmother under the bus..." is a blatant and complete distortion of what was said by Barack Obama in Philadelphia yesterday. Phee... I'm trying here, I really am, but he isn't making it easy.

maybe try explaining why it's inaccurate, instead of just voicing apparent "outrage" or "disbelief", or whatever emotion it is that you're trying to communicate... implying that you're on the verge of "breaking the rules" again by referring to phee isn't helping in any way, either. it's your responsibility ot control yourself, regardless of what anyone else does - keep that in mind, please...

[ttogreh]

Fine. Here are the relevant sentences on Obama's grandmother.

can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Does that look to you like he threw his Grandmother under the bus?

[torn asunder]

Fine. Here are the relevant sentences on Obama's grandmother.

Does that look to you like he threw his Grandmother under the bus?

in a way, sure - why bother bringing her into it? nobody knew she had racist viewpoints or opinions. (i mean, i understand his reasons, but doing so, in essence, "threw her under the bus") at least, that's how i see it...

[Reaper]

I really can't see myself voting for any of them. I really don't want to return to republican ways, only to stretch the debt into more wars and Iraq more. I also don't like the idea of having Obama as president, nor Clinton with her annoying voice in the same position. Bring back Perot!

[torn asunder]

I really can't see myself voting for any of them. I really don't want to return to republican ways, only to stretch the debt into more wars and Iraq more. I also don't like the idea of having Obama as president, nor Clinton with her annoying voice in the same position. Bring back Perot!

[ttogreh]

I have a better chance of winning the White House this November than Ralph Nader, and I am constitutionally precluded from running because I am too young.

[torn asunder]

I have a better chance of winning the White House this November than Ralph Nader, and I am constitutionally precluded from running because I am too young.

well, no shit... the entire reason to vote for nader (or any third-party or independant) is to elevate one of them to 5% of the popular vote, thus giving them federal funding, and allowing them into the national debates. that's the gateway to changing the stranglehold that the current "duopoly" has on the political scene.

i'll never understand why people have this insane need to "vote for the winner"!? just vote for who you want! if enough people agree, they *will* win! of course, that will never happen as long as people think that they're ":throwing away" their vote. people (in general) suck!!

[Shade Everdark]

I don't want to derail the discussion, but I am curious as to why it's a media explosion when this happened to Obama, but McCain actively courting the likes of Hagee is a non-starter.

[ttogreh]

McCain IS the nominee, Shade. That story is done. It won't heat up for months. Barack Obama MIGHT be the nominee. The horse race is all that mainstream media cares about.

[Fierce Critter]

well, no shit... the entire reason to vote for nader (or any third-party or independant) is to elevate one of them to 5% of the popular vote, thus giving them federal funding, and allowing them into the national debates. that's the gateway to changing the stranglehold that the current "duopoly" has on the political scene.

i'll never understand why people have this insane need to "vote for the winner"!? just vote for who you want! if enough people agree, they *will* win! of course, that will never happen as long as people think that they're ":throwing away" their vote. people (in general) suck!!

I look at it more this way.

My vote can do three things. Put someone in office. Keep someone else OUT of office. Or send a message.

In a given election, I have to weigh whether it's more important to me at that time to use my vote to send a message, or do one of the other two.

In these times, I do not feel like my #1 priority is sending a message.

There you go.

[torn asunder]

I look at it more this way.

My vote can do three things. Put someone in office. Keep someone else OUT of office. Or send a message.

In a given election, I have to weigh whether it's more important to me at that time to use my vote to send a message, or do one of the other two.

In these times, I do not feel like my #1 priority is sending a message.

There you go.

(sorry for this derailment)

so, do you like either candidate? or do you just hate one candidate less than the others? if it's the former, great! go vote! if it's the latter, how does anyone (not just you) ever expect to get decent candidates, unless they show their discontent with the current parties? imo, there will never be a good time to do it - it's always going to be "well, this person has us all screwed up - it's too important right now to do this!"

as many have said, "there's no time like the present!"...,

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yes. He threw his grand mother under the bus. How? He lied. Read his book. The story is completely different in the book.

He painted the picture of his grand mother as just another white racists. All so he could stay as politically neutral as he could and still keep his ties to his racist anti-American preacher.

That speech just showed him to be another Washington politician with added racism and bad judgement.

[ttogreh]

All right, fine. I am sure you can find an excerpt or two from both of his books. Show me the words. Forgive me if I do not take your assertions at face value.

[the eternal]

it's also a gift to those of us who needed to know what kind of person Barrack is.

The President needs to be able to make good decisions. Barack had 20 years to figure out what a racist his pastor was and then decide that he didn't need to expose his children to that.

So, he threw his grand mother under the bus instead of Wright.

I'll have to gather them up. Barack has many ties to racists. Wright, Ferican and the Black Panthers are just a few of them

Ok, I admit I honestly don't know who Ferican is, but I'm not concerned about the "radicalism" of Obama's views.

Because they aren't radical.

I respect your opinion, Gaf, but you are painting him with a VERY broad brush here.

Obama's actually, when it comes down to it, not as strong-willed as Hillary.

His heart's in the right place, but I don't think he's going to come close ruffling feathers the way some are so worried about.

If you look at his record, and read up how he interacted with his state and US Senate colleagues

it will show a liberal voting record,

more so than Clinton, BUT,

unlike someone with Bush's arrogant stubbornness,

it'll also reveal that he's been a man all through his career willing to be a consensus-builder,

even if it meant making concessions for the greater good.

THAT'S what people love about this guy.

He sees beyond race, and he's trying to bring us together.

The reason why people, who know nothing of the man, like him so much is

HE GIVES THEM HOPE

And with five years in Iraq, and the state of our economy, THAT's what people are looking for.

____________________________________________________________________________

The quotes in the press from Obama's pastor are morally reprehensible, AND

they are also not a good picture of either man.

What is conveniently overlooked, is that, according to his actual churchgoers,

this was not the type of hate speech that Rev. Wright did

on a weekly basis, nor was it the type of speech that Obama heard or supported in any way, shape, or form.

Those selected snippets of Rev Wright provide 2 things:

1. A distorted view of Obama's pastor

2. A keyhole into the anger and disillusionment that a lot of African Americans still have in this country

In other words, on these occassions, as opposed to when he would speak eloquently about the "audacity of hope,"

which Obama used to title his second book, he was giving his church an outlet for their anger and frustration, of still only making .60 to a white mans dollar, and still having a disproportionate percentage oftheir population in prison, instead of college.

And it was STILL wrong.

And it was STILL distasteful, regardless of the circumstances.

___________________________________________________________

YET Obama responded-----

NOT by apologizing

NOT by disowning Wright,

BUT by putting it in perspective of the troubled state we are in, in terms of race relations.

and YES,

by telling America,

his own Grandmother was racist, and that he loved her and cared for her more than anything in the world.

He EVEN gave a sympathetic voice to the pain and fear that whites feel from crimes perpetuated by Blacks,

as well as White anger over losing a job to Affirmative Action

By doing so, he showed how complicated things are in term of race in this country.

Historians and others described the speech’s candidness on race as almost without precedent.

But don't take my word for it, SEE IT FOR YOURSELF, (like Gaf did) THEN

reply and refute.

IF YOU CAN, listen to it mashed up with Front line Assembly. It sounds really good that way

It's hard to say who's going to come out on top of all this...... eep. Aside from all those associations, the (i think it was indonesian?) muslim school he went to when he was young puts people off in the current political climate, too.

Actually, I have to disagree.

The "Muslim school" thing was a hit job, irresponsibly reported by a Washington Times offshoot and then picked up by Fox News.

Now THIS is why I f^%$ing hate Fox News. it's not their slant.

It is---

FOX NEWS'S persistent willingness to take anything off a blogger or right-wing rag and run it as fact.

You just don't see that level of irrresponsibility at CNN.

You don't.

Anyway, why I respectfully disagree with Munin,

is that it seems like most people actually forgot about that misreporting.

Which is probably why Obama went on a tear and won a dozen states in a row shortly after it came out.

And is now over 100 delegates ahead of Clinton

The fallout from Rev. Wright is really the only substantive thing that can undo Obama IMHO.

And trust me, it WILL have negative repercussions

Especially if the media does its usual hatchet job, ONLY reporting the "sexy bits"

ie. the headline grabbing epithets that Wright spoke on occassion.

How bad will it be for him?

ALL WE CAN DO NOW IS WAIT AND SEE HOW THIS ALL SHAKES OUT

____________________________________________________________________________

NOW,

IF you want to read the truth about the SECULAR school Obama attended alongside Buddhists and Christians for all of two years, as a boy, READ BELOW

CNN debunks false report about Obama (first reported in January)

JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a "madrassa" are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as (the conservative-run) Washington Times,

reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama's school)

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by "researchers connected to Senator Clinton." A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obamaoccasionsof their claim.

He called the story "an obvious right-wing hit joirresponsibilityb."

occasionInsight stood by its story in a response posted on its Web site Monday afternoon.

The Insight article was cited several times Friday on Fox News and was also referenced by the New York Post, The Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News and a number of political blogs. (Watch how the Obama "gossip" spread)

School not a madrassa

But reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

Fox News executive Bill Shine told CNN "Reliable Sources" anchor Howard Kurtz that some of the network's hosts were simply expressing their opinions and repeatedly cited Insight as the source of the allegations.

Obama has noted in his two books, "Dreams From My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope," that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

BTW. While you are feeling the need to attack me for having an opinion on his life changing speech of race... Just keep in mind... I'm not the only one who thought he threw grandma under the bus. I'm not the only one that thought his speech was an exorcise in pandering.

He is dropping like a rock in the polls. His 15point lead over Clinton has turned into a 4 point lead... His slightly behind McCain has turned into 8 or 9 point behind.

Hillary was right.. no one has ever really put Barrack to any kind of scrutiny. Now that people are actually starting to look at him... He is going from the Great Hope... to just another racists.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Louis Farrakhan, thats who I was talking about. eternal.. if you don't think Louis Farrakhan is radical... I'm not sure how to talk to you about this anymore.

btw, I watched the speech. I wanted to hear what he had to say. He had my vote on Friday. On Monday I wasn;t so sure. He lost it with that speech.