What Can Actually Change Your Opinion?

[pharoh]

um....yes

oh now you fucked up.....now you fucked up.....you have fucked up now......

(inside joke)

[Msterbeau]

what if YOU saw the purple goat? (I hate these kinds of examples, they always border on extreme, everyone knows that there are no purple goats in the spring)

with that logic - is there truly no desire within you personally, to have those you value, attatch some from of credibility to your experiences?

for example Ive been married for a long time.

but there were still plenty of years and experiences that Lola and I had that did not include the other.

we know each other, and trust each other however, to trust each other's perspective on those experiences.

I for one, actually DO want that to count....

Which brings up a point... I think the more that something strains believability (To you) the harder it will be for anyone to change your mind about that subject. A dearly loved one may have more success in getting you to consider it but that might not be enough to completely win you over. Perhaps those who more easily place trust in faith are more easily able to make a leap like this?

[Steven]

Which brings up a point... I think the more that something strains believability (To you) the harder it will be for anyone to change your mind about that subject. A dearly loved one may have more success in getting you to consider it but that might not be enough to completely win you over. Perhaps those who more easily place trust in faith are more easily able to make a leap like this?

more trust in faith.....to me faith and trust are virtually the same....being that faith is simply beleif....

[Steven]

oh now you fucked up.....now you fucked up.....you have fucked up now......

(inside joke)

pizza's not for breakfast......(double inside joke)

[creatureofthenyte]

What can change my opinion ?

That depends on what's being discussed.

If I say that I do not like pork rind flavored key lime apple sauce, having never tried it, then I try it and like it, that would change my opinion.

In parallel with Phee's point,

if I were him, I would be wanting to see the goat's tracks in the bedroom, or definitive goat debris left behind, or a snapshot photo of the goat sitting on the bed, so I could clearly tell it was actually there; verbal testimony, no matter how much I trust someone, isn't enough.

I listen to what someone says, and then I compare it with evidence, to see how well the evidence matches up, if at all, and I include any observation or corroberation I make on the subject, and in that process, the decision to change my opinion or not to, is made.

Evidence is the key though, because when you have undisputable proof of something, then there are no words to disprove what the evidence shows and at that point I would be a fool to not change my opinion on the subject.

I also want to add, that in dgn, it seems that religion and politics are two majorly hot button issues that I rarely post on because some people who post on those topics, freely choose to word their posts in such a way as to get readers all fired up unneccesarily.

[Hellion]

Unless I see 100% actual proof that would change my opinion,I will stick to what I believe.

[TygerLili]

what if YOU saw the purple goat? (I hate these kinds of examples, they always border on extreme, everyone knows that there are no purple goats in the spring)

with that logic - is there truly no desire within you personally, to have those you value, attatch some from of credibility to your experiences?

for example Ive been married for a long time.

but there were still plenty of years and experiences that Lola and I had that did not include the other.

we know each other, and trust each other however, to trust each other's perspective on those experiences.

I for one, actually DO want that to count....

Many people in my life, my parents, my close friends, my boyfriends, are important to me, and I respect their opinions and beliefs, but that doesn't mean I'll always agree with their views just because I trust the people.

For example: Charlie believes in ghosts and spirits. I don't. I don't deny that there's a chance that they do exist, but I've never seen any convincing evidence to support that they do exist, and until I do I'll continue to believe that they do not exist.

Charlie, on the other hand, has told me stories of experiences he has had with what he believes are ghosts. I don't think he is lying or making things up. I believe that he has experienced something to make him feel this way, and while I believe that he genuinely believes he's seen ghosts, I think that there's some other, more concrete explanation for his experiences.

I could be wrong, or he could be wrong.

[phee]

what if YOU saw the purple goat? (I hate these kinds of examples, they always border on extreme, everyone knows that there are no purple goats in the spring)

with that logic - is there truly no desire within you personally, to have those you value, attatch some from of credibility to your experiences?

for example Ive been married for a long time.

but there were still plenty of years and experiences that Lola and I had that did not include the other.

we know each other, and trust each other however, to trust each other's perspective on those experiences.

I for one, actually DO want that to count....

If I saw said purple goat... I could not expect anyone to believe me right off either, no matter how they know me. The credibility comes from the fact that they would believe that I believe it (as I said above).

Probability is another factor that goes into belief for me (while I know that belief is in itself by definition in denial of needing evidence). Let's take a factor like love, I believe my wife loves me, even though love is an abstract concept in a lot of ways, her actions increase the probability to the point where it is pretty much proven to me. Where as purple goat angels, zombies, and water into wine, are not probable, and therefore not really believable.

[Steven]

If I saw said purple goat... I could not expect anyone to believe me right off either, no matter how they know me. The credibility comes from the fact that they would believe that I believe it (as I said above).

Probability is another factor that goes into belief for me (while I know that belief is in itself by definition in denial of needing evidence). Let's take a factor like love, I believe my wife loves me, even though love is an abstract concept in a lot of ways, her actions increase the probability to the point where it is pretty much proven to me. Where as purple goat angels, zombies, and water into wine, are not probable, and therefore not really believable.

K lets try another approach......

I teach christian couples, how to fix their marriages that have broken down or are just generally bad, by way of evidence that I cannot prove.

I use a biblical blueprint or framework - but its bible based - hence unprovable.

and I use Lola and myself as a working example. However that too cannot be "proved" that were not liars or that we dont really have a bad marriage or even a ho hum one because these peeps dont live with us and see us in good times and bad times and in different scenarios.

but lots of these same people "believe" the things I tell them about us, and they likewise "beleive" the concepts and methods that I teach are sound and usable, simply because they "beleive" that I'm onto something that "seems" to manifest, and because they "believe" in my charactor as a teacher and leader.

if these folks only "beleive that I beleive".....then they are doomed to fail in what I'm teaching are they not?

lets get away from purple goats altogethor (something I was trygin to do in the beginning of this thread for a reason - it relates to nothign in real life) and move toward those abstract ideas or principles.

were talking about....what can change our opinions.

and I would argue that many types of "unprovable" abstract or lofty ideals unto themselves can actually sway opinions. I would also argue that many if not msot of us....actually are indeed somewhat impressionable just by being humans.

interestingly enough (half jack) your idea on your wife's love being constant enough in actions to give you enough proof is exactly the same sort of thing that proves God and my faith to me. Exactly.

My half Jack point being: in the end it comes down to choice to that which appeals to us.

inceidently if you told me you saw a purple goat I'd tell you you were high and then ask you why purple goats are so important to you when we all have bigger fish to fry....

[phee]

K lets try another approach......

I teach christian couples, how to fix their marriages that have broken down or are just generally bad, by way of evidence that I cannot prove.

I use a biblical blueprint or framework - but its bible based - hence unprovable.

and I use Lola and myself as a working example. However that too cannot be "proved" that were not liars or that we dont really have a bad marriage or even a ho hum one because these peeps dont live with us and see us in good times and bad times and in different scenarios.

but lots of these same people "believe" the things I tell them about us, and they likewise "beleive" the concepts and methods that I teach are sound and usable, simply because they "beleive" that I'm onto something that "seems" to manifest, and because they "believe" in my charactor as a teacher and leader.

if these folks only "beleive that I beleive".....then they are doomed to fail in what I'm teaching are they not?

lets get away from purple goats altogethor (something I was trygin to do in the beginning of this thread for a reason - it relates to nothign in real life) and move toward those abstract ideas or principles.

were talking about....what can change our opinions.

and I would argue that many types of "unprovable" abstract or lofty ideals unto themselves can actually sway opinions. I would also argue that many if not msot of us....actually are indeed somewhat impressionable just by being humans.

interestingly enough (half jack) your idea on your wife's love being constant enough in actions to give you enough proof is exactly the same sort of thing that proves God and my faith to me. Exactly.

My half Jack point being: in the end it comes down to choice to that which appeals to us.

inceidently if you told me you saw a purple goat I'd tell you you were high and then ask you why purple goats are so important to you when we all have bigger fish to fry....

I think I can understand this point of view.

[Steven]

I think I can understand this point of view.

Holy Moly.

Phee and I just had a moment.....

[pharoh]

Holy Moly.

Phee and I just had a moment.....

Holy crap sound the trumpets, bring out the cattle to slaughter, and the virgins to bust.......

Ok that last one was for me.....alllllll for me lol

See that conversation above is what I like to see, no your mamma jokes and it was done civil.....thats what I really dig. even if it ended up both agreeing to disagree, It was still done the right way....and I feel I won my own small battle with this thread alone....peace

[Steven]

I actually DO try to be civil homie.....its a challange at times but I try. I think we all takes turns on that one.

[pharoh]

I actually DO try to be civil homie.....its a challange at times but I try. I think we all takes turns on that one.

wasn't pointin fingers vato, just using above as an example lol

[Steven]

wasn't pointin fingers vato, just using above as an example lol

I know....jus sayin iz all.......

[jadnifer]

Reading anything in here in regards to religion and prostitution and multiple topics (I used those two because they are the newest example I can think of this morning), I see everyone always tilts to one side. I also see that nobody on here will ever be convinced of anything different than thier own opinion (we all do it lol).

So my question(s) is this:

What can actually persuade you to change your mind?

What are the reasons why you see someone as flawed in thier opinion (they're logic if you will)?

Do you have experience in the subjects at hand other than web based?

---My intentions of this thread is to help comminication between fellow dgn 'rs and try to get a better understanding of each other so it won't get to that level to where we all have seen threads take "THAT" turn. With that being in mind, lets keep it civil.---

I'll put my answer up in a bit cause I gotta go to work

Evidence is really the only thing that can make me change my mind. On my beliefs or otherwise.

For example: I believe in ghosts and spirits because I have actually seen them. If someone told me that they didn't exist, I wouldn't be like,"Well, okay, I won't believe in them anymore because you said so." It doesn't work that way. I believe because I have seen.

As far as religion is concerned, that is a touchy subject for a lot of people because technically, the way I see it is, no one religion or God can be proven to exist. It's all in that one person's faith. Who is someone to tell me that my God doesn't exist or who am I to tell someone else that their God doesn't exist? We can talk about what we believe, but I would never be nasty about it and I would want the other person to have the same respect for me that I have for them.

I don't ever really something as flawed in their opinion. It may be scientifically wrong and in that case I would try to prove to them in a non-threatening way that what they think is indeed wrong. For example: If someone came up to me and said the sky is red, I would try to prove to them that the sky is blue. If it works great. If it doesn't well at least I tried. Differing opinions are good because if everyone thought the same way, this world would be a very boring place.

Some things that I talk about I have experience in. Others I don't. If I don't have experience, I'm not going to say that I do. If I do have experience, I'm not going to deny it, but I'm also not going to throw it into someone's face. I like posting in areas that I don't have experience in because then I could learn about new things.

I've seen a few people who were anti-gun but they've never even touched one. Once they went to the range, learned about firearm safety and usage, and fired off a few dozen rounds, their minds changed.

Experiencing something firsthand of which you were formerly ignorant on is a great way to change your mind. I call it "Green Eggs and Ham Syndrome".

I am guilty of anti-gun thing. It's not really that I'm anti-gun, I just think that there should be tougher laws on them. I have never been to a firing range and yes as I said above I will admit to not having experience in that area.

for me, the funnest part of a conversation (debate-ish) is when someone phrases something in a way i hadn't thought of ebfore, or mentions something that hasn't occurred to me. i'm always happy to reconsider, and if the new info warrants it, i'll gladly change my mind. of course, the info has to be either very solid (facts) or *very* persuasive (opinions) for me to do so, but i actually change my mind on things quite often! (more often than some people might think...)

I could'nt have worded this better myself. As long as it is civil, it's nice to hear things that you have never considered before. Sometimes it makes me think long and hard about something. Depending on what the topic is, I'll either change my mind or I won't

I've gotten frustrated with this aspect too. Certain people can't seem to state their opinion or present some new facts without becoming deeply embroiled in topics near and dear to their heart. And they keep countering everyone else's posts until the tension rises and the name calling ensues or everyone gets sick of it and abandons the thread and there's no one left to argue with. I generally post once and only respond again if there's something very compelling, and when things get heated, I bail out. I'm not interested in people's personal problems with each other boiling over into every thread they participate in and I'm pretty sure most of the rest of DGN isn't either.

I don't like seeing the arguing either. People can argue without arguing. Do you understand what I mean? An argument CAN be civil. You just talk out your difference in beliefs or opinions. I don't like coming on here and seeing people arguing back and forth and back and forth about something which turns into name calling. It just isn't cool. We are all adults and most of us know each other in person. Would we argue like this is real life? Ask yourself that. If not, then why are you doing it on a computer?