Polygamist Compound Searched...

[Jadis]

I am against multi-partner marriages because I think it's an un-healthy environment to raise children in.

I have to agree with this statement. I don't think that it is a healthy environment to raise children in ... it just cause confusion and in social settings it can be difficult for a child being brought up in it to adjust.

When my sister-in-law came for a visit... i watched my 5 year old boy and her 5 year old girl playing together and listened to what was said. "Lets play house! I'll be the mommy and you be the daddy.. we don't need a second mommy... thats weird."

My sister-in-law lives in Cali. They home school. The children have little contact outside her family. And the child still thinks what her parents are doing is wrong...

Thats all the justification I need for my feelings.

I feel for your little niece. Even at 5 years old to know that it's "weird" ... and to be home schooled and further taken out of a "normal" social setting ... wow. I wonder how that will affect her and her future relationships ...

Multi marriages don't equal love.

Multi marriages = power for men.

Yep. I completely agree.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Don't get me started.

My first husband was already married when he married me. I did not know until a week after I married him -- his mother mentioned it to me. I guess him wanting to get married in Canada should have been my first clue, but I was 18 and evidently stupid.

Anyway, I got a restraining order on his "other" wife because she was literally psychotic and tried to beat our door down once ... That was after we came home once to her sitting in a corner in our house, rocking back and forth, slicing her wrists. And that was even after I left him for a week because he left for a night and came back the next morning with her saying he was going to move her back in and we could just all live together.

It was very messed up ...

I'm getting off track.

So a few months later he gets really drunk and I wrestle the car keys away from him. He beats me in the process but never gets the keys ... Knocks me up against the kitchen cabinets and knocks me out for a few seconds. I hear him through the house looking for the keys, which I had hid. Hear him in the kitchen drawer then go outside. I hear the car start and back out. Tires squeal and car goes up on the curb. I call the cops ... He's going to seriously hurt himself or someone else.

Cops come and notice my heads bleeding and I'm bruised --- both old and new. I refuse to say anything. They take my lisence and recall the incident not too long before where his wife was trying to gain entry into our house. My name matches the wife and his at this point. They question me and I refuse to answer.

In the meantime he pulls up. He can't even walk straight and has an open bottle of whiskey in the car. They arrest him on multiple charges (DUI, open container, multiple I'd's, domestic violence and Pologamy). The state charged him. I was pregnant with my oldest daughter sheilding myself from the cameracrews on my way in to testify. About a week after he was released on bond his divorce went through from his other wife ( he had claimed he had no idea where she was and filed for a default judgement). A few months later I read in the paper that the Case was dropped because Michigan didn't know how to properly prosecute it. It was best for all parties involved, they said.

Three months later I got served with divorce papers from Ontario. 6 months later and just about three weeks before my daughter was born it was granted in an Ontario Provincial court. I was in the hospital unable to attend the hearing where he swore to the judge that I was not pregnant.

Two years later he would sue me for paternity saying he never knew about my daughter. .... And the lies have never stopped.

That is not multiple partners.....That is cheating and lies.....Soooooooo not the same!!!!!

[Oh_My_Goth]

I have to agree with this statement. I don't think that it is a healthy environment to raise children in ... it just cause confusion and in social settings it can be difficult for a child being brought up in it to adjust.

I feel for your little niece. Even at 5 years old to know that it's "weird" ... and to be home schooled and further taken out of a "normal" social setting ... wow. I wonder how that will affect her and her future relationships ...

Yep. I completely agree.

So let Me get this right.....My husband has power 'cuz we both have what we require,(because in ours & many other cases both partners will this to be) or are you talking about the dozen wife thing?????

[Msterbeau]

I have to agree with this statement. I don't think that it is a healthy environment to raise children in ... it just cause confusion and in social settings it can be difficult for a child being brought up in it to adjust.

I feel for your little niece. Even at 5 years old to know that it's "weird" ... and to be home schooled and further taken out of a "normal" social setting ... wow. I wonder how that will affect her and her future relationships ...

Yep. I completely agree.

I think the major reason it causes confusion is because society in general has been taught to reject poly arrangements of any kind. And children are often cruel... and parents don't teach them tolerance... and so they get teased and made to feel like outcasts... No wonder they feel awkward about it. Children generally feel the need to belong, and since our society does such a great job teaching acceptance of differing lifestyles and opinions they don't get it.

And now I've gone and veered off to where I said i didn't want to....

[Rayne]

That is not multiple partners.....That is cheating and lies.....Soooooooo not the same!!!!!

Legally there is no difference. Legally Polygamy is Polygamy.

Legally multiple partners is Polyomory (not sure on the spelling).

Polygamy is illegal. Polyomory is not.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Legally there is no difference. Legally Polygamy is Polygamy.

Legally multiple partners is Polyomory (not sure on the spelling).

Polygamy is illegal. Polyomory is not.

Well then it is people like that who ruin it for everyone else!!!!!

[vampire]

i did get more camels .. and boy was it hard ... but now i'm ready to buy more ...

[Troy Spiral (13)]

um, my Sister-in-law's family do not own a TV. So a sitcom would not help reprogram her children. Nor could I advocate intentional social programing via the Television.

TV seems to be the only medium that would really get a point across to large numbers of people, defiently better than the internet in terms of really trying to reach as many people as possible. It would be my first place to start if i felt i had some social truth to get the word out about and had the money to do so. "programming" might not be my plan though. I'd think of it more as awareness or education.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Mehhh...there's a problem.

One guy + A dozen wives = Sexist no matter what kind of light you try to shed on it.

Twelve Guys + Twelve Chicks = One hell of a party.

Not quite sure I'm drawing a distinction there. If they are all adults, and all consenting, i cant view it with any sexism (or lack of sexism) depending on how many people are involved. If its 5 women and 5 men 2 women and 3 men... not sure how the numerals involved = absolute moral or ethical determination. (referring to the "no matter what kind of light..." part)

I agree that there IS moral/ethical issues involved, but how many people and what gender they happen to be (or what sexual orientation for that matter) seems difficult to use as a yardstick to decide that by definition, something is intrinsically sexist. It might be sexist, but i think it would be more about the particular situation, not the numerals.

I might just not be thinking about it properly. I'm wrong like 57 times a day, so this might just be one of them times. lol

[Jadis]

So let Me get this right.....My husband has power 'cuz we both have what we require,(because in ours & many other cases both partners will this to be) or are you talking about the dozen wife thing?????

I'm talking about the dozen wives thing.

I think the major reason it causes confusion is because society in general has been taught to reject poly arrangements of any kind. And children are often cruel... and parents don't teach them tolerance... and so they get teased and made to feel like outcasts... No wonder they feel awkward about it. Children generally feel the need to belong, and since our society does such a great job teaching acceptance of differing lifestyles and opinions they don't get it.

And now I've gone and veered off to where I said i didn't want to....

I agree 100%. Children are cruel... I think that as time goes on there may be more tolerance for these things (different lifestyles)... but for right now... it's different than what we're used to so it's harder to accept.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think the major reason it causes confusion is because society in general has been taught to reject poly arrangements of any kind. And children are often cruel... and parents don't teach them tolerance... and so they get teased and made to feel like outcasts... No wonder they feel awkward about it. Children generally feel the need to belong, and since our society does such a great job teaching acceptance of differing lifestyles and opinions they don't get it.

And now I've gone and veered off to where I said i didn't want to....

I think you missed the part where I explained that my niece has almost no contact with the rest of society. She is not in public or even private schools. She doesn't go to day care. Two of her biological parents are Profs at San Diego State University, so she is being brought up in a rather liberal, non average society enviroment... and she still finds her parent's arrangement to be weird.

[Msterbeau]

I think you missed the part where I explained that my niece has almost no contact with the rest of society. She is not in public or even private schools. She doesn't go to day care. Two of her biological parents are Profs at San Diego State University, so she is being brought up in a rather liberal, non average society enviroment... and she still finds her parent's arrangement to be weird.

I read . One example does not a case make. Something I learned through therapy (From a very smart and well-read therapist) is that sometimes kids follow their parents patterns and sometimes they go the other way. On their own. This (To some degree) helps explains how some children turn out OK despite abuse and others are completely evil despite healthy and involved parenting. Nature vs nurture. I'm not discounting your experiences... But without comparing many similar family situations, it's tough to draw conclusions that fit for everyone.

[TygerLili]

*Sigh* How little must one value oneself (or how little must their parents value their child) to want to be one of someone's wives, or husbands.

I agree, in the example we have to work with here, it's purely about one man exerting power over women. A marriage is a commitment between two people to each other, it's not a one-way deal.

As far as three (or four, or five) consenting adults wanting to live together and build a household and raise children together, they're free to do so. But why should any state have to recognize that as a marriage?

[Rev.Reverence]

As far as three (or four, or five) consenting adults wanting to live together and build a household and raise children together, they're free to do so. But why should any state have to recognize that as a marriage?

Nice way to put it..and I've always felt similarly... but really it just made me think,

"Why does the government, a SECULAR entity, give a shit about marriage at all...ie. Tax Breaks, & numerical limitations?"

Maybe we should start another 'side thread'...1..2..3..NOT IT!

*runs away*

[torn asunder]

shouldent be where children are concerned.....and what were talkign about here is balanced, harmonious living that is ideally suited to equip children.

of course it should be! if it's not, then all you're saying is "my sense of decency over-rides everyone else's", and that's wrong...

one person's idea of balanced, harmonious living, is another man's sick, demented sin, as it were... people shouldn't blanket everyone with their own personal views, no matter how strongly they feel about it.

[torn asunder]

*Sigh* How little must one value oneself (or how little must their parents value their child) to want to be one of someone's wives, or husbands.

why does wanting to be involved in a multi-partner relationship imply low self-worth?

(general comments/thoughts: )

why are people so inherently against this idea, and why must they automatically think that "something's wrong" with people who think/feel this way? (polyamory/polygamy)

in a way, i almost feel like (and i'm not aiming this at anyone, just to head off any misunderstandings), people who feel a need for monogamy have selfishness/possessiveness/jealousy issues, and aren't mature enough to handle the concept of loving more than one person at a time, emotionally speaking. of course, that doesn't apply to everyone - some people choose monogamy, some choose solitude, some choose celibacy, some choose to serial-date... why should people who feel they have a capacity to love more than one, be singled out in such a negative way??

[Msterbeau]

So now there are accusations of abuse, rape and other unsavory practices:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_...mist_retreat_80

I can't help but think they're playing games with the religious persecution card. Religion can not be an excuse for child abuse. Ever.

[TygerLili]

why does wanting to be involved in a multi-partner relationship imply low self-worth?

I never said being in a multi-partner relationship implied low self-worth. As far as dating goes, you can date whoever you want, for whatever reason you want, and as long as everyone involved is cool with it, you can date as many people as you want. Polyamory is legal.

Marriage is a commitment and a choice. If you don't want to commit yourself to just one person, then you're free to choose not to get married, or I suppose you and your spouse can chose to have an open marriage and play around with other people. But for someone to come home and say "Honey, I'm going to marry So-and-so, too," is ridiculous. It implies that you have no "special" bond what-so-ever with your spouse and that they alone are not enough for you. Why get married at all?

In that way, I think it does imply low self-worth to settle for half, or one twelfth, of a marriage.

I appologize if I'm not expressing myself as clearly today as usual, the migrane meds are messing with my head.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I never said being in a multi-partner relationship implied low self-worth. As far as dating goes, you can date whoever you want, for whatever reason you want, and as long as everyone involved is cool with it, you can date as many people as you want. Polyamory is legal.

Marriage is a commitment and a choice. If you don't want to commit yourself to just one person, then you're free to choose not to get married, or I suppose you and your spouse can chose to have an open marriage and play around with other people. But for someone to come home and say "Honey, I'm going to marry So-and-so, too," is ridiculous. It implies that you have no "special" bond what-so-ever with your spouse and that they alone are not enough for you. Why get married at all?

In that way, I think it does imply low self-worth to settle for half, or one twelfth, of a marriage.

I appologize if I'm not expressing myself as clearly today as usual, the migrane meds are messing with my head.

I personally find it to be unfair that I can not have a "legal" wife and husband.....

Marriage dose not have to be about just 2 people.....

Well, at least the Universal Spirit will acknowledge my marriage.....

It can't judge love, like the government, and many religions think they have the right to!!!!!

*****Not attacking you, just making a point*****

[sass_in_the_pants]

I think that polygamy lends itself to abuse. There are certain arrangements which, though not inherently abusive, make it very, very easy for abuse to happen, and go undetected. Marriage of very young girls is one of those things. So is polygamy.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I personally find it to be unfair that I can not have a "legal" wife and husband.....

Marriage dose not have to be about just 2 people.....

Well, at least the Universal Spirit will acknowledge my marriage.....

It can't judge love, like the government, and many religions think they have the right to!!!!!

*****Not attacking you, just making a point*****

Life is not fair. No matter how many laws we pass. I could accept the government recognizing gay marriage way before I could accept a recognition of multi-partner marriages of any type.

[~Tszura~]

I think that polygamy lends itself to abuse. There are certain arrangements which, though not inherently abusive, make it very, very easy for abuse to happen, and go undetected. Marriage of very young girls is one of those things. So is polygamy.

I get the marriage to young girls/increased propensity for abuse statement, but I don't understand how polygamy lends itself to being any more abusive than a typical 1:1 marriage could be in a culture where the male sex is still viewed as being dominant over female. Could you explain your views further on this please?

The way I see it, there's more negotiating needed in a poly marriage, and when people are negotiating their lives to make things work, I don't see much room for abuse. In a 1:1 marriage, I see it actually almost being easier for abuse to happen because one partner can have full access to the other, and no one may know about whats going on.

[Fierce Critter]

2)In the 'I-ching' {book} it states that a mans first and second wives MUST 'be as sisters' in our language that would be like saying best friends.

3)Any one who thinks two people can complete the Karma Sutra; needs to look through it more closely.

I am so fucking sick of people letting books rule their wisdom.

I'm NOT going to turn this thread into a bible-bashing session.

But saying the I-ching and Kama Sutra should dictate what is and isn't right/wrong isn't any different than saying the bible should do so as well.

How about saying, "Fuck what others who have put their words down in print say" and looking within and figuring, through your own personal wisdom/morals/common sense, what is and isn't a good idea?

(Not aimed strictly at the Rev. Just so you know.)

[torn asunder]

I am so fucking sick of people letting books rule their wisdom.

I'm NOT going to turn this thread into a bible-bashing session.

But saying the I-ching and Kama Sutra should dictate what is and isn't right/wrong isn't any different than saying the bible should do so as well.

How about saying, "Fuck what others who have put their words down in print say" and looking within and figuring, through your own personal wisdom/morals/common sense, what is and isn't a good idea?

(Not aimed strictly at the Rev. Just so you know.)

books are the next best thing to having actual conversations with "the author", which most people are unable to do. are you saying the thoughts in books are invalid? i'm not understanding why books should be disregarded as sources of information!? people draw from all of their experiences, which include reading. what's the difference between saying "based on what i've read, my opinion is [this]", or "based on the conversations i've had, my opinion is [this]", or "based on the experiences i've had, my opinion is [this]", or "based on my intuition, my opinion is [this]"?

i don't get it...

[Rev.Reverence]

I am so fucking sick of people letting books rule their wisdom.

I'm NOT going to turn this thread into a bible-bashing session.

But saying the I-ching and Kama Sutra should dictate what is and isn't right/wrong isn't any different than saying the bible should do so as well.

How about saying, "Fuck what others who have put their words down in print say" and looking within and figuring, through your own personal wisdom/morals/common sense, what is and isn't a good idea?

(Not aimed strictly at the Rev. Just so you know.)

Yes, I agree, whole heartedly... BOOKS should not rule... the Heart should... but when my heart sais one thing, and people say my heart is wrong, I QUOTE. (but I would not use a quote that did not echo through my very soul...)

My point was not to convert, but to show that there are more than one set of moralistic virtues at work on this planet.

I quote sages, prophets, kings, and Rabbis; Yogis, scientists, bards, and Magi... I would quote a shaman as well... but nothins come up that any o' them would care about... they like to hang their heads, and say things like, "It doesn't effect my tribe... whatever.. do what makes your heart feel good...".

I would like to see a from the heart exchange, but alas, our world is running out of that...