Study Says Smoking Ban In Bars And Restaurants Is Better For Health And No Harm On Business.

[Msterbeau]

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...NEWS06/80415061

I think this page says all I need to know about the safety aspect:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/seco...factsheet7.html

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Study commissioned by non-smoking advocacy group

That says it all for me.

[phee]

Study commissioned by non-smoking advocacy group

That says it all for me.

Indeed...

Its kind of like watching a story on good a job the president is doing on FOX NEWS...

[Msterbeau]

Study commissioned by non-smoking advocacy group

That says it all for me.

Point noted. But can you prove that their data is incorrect? Look who the spokesman is... The former Republican Senate Majority Leader. Not exactly the most likely anti-smoking advocate.

[Angel of Death]

Point noted. But can you prove that their data is incorrect? Look who the spokesman is... The former Republican Senate Majority Leader. Not exactly the most likely anti-smoking advocate.

yeah well us smokers need our fix I'm not even gonna read this cuz I already know it's about how bad cigs r for you....I also already know how bad they r for you but it's sorta hard to quit...and I don't wanna have my right to smoke a cig after I eat at a resteraunt after I eator while I'm at the bar or club....

What r they planning on doing make us go outside? That wuld be gay as hell especially at CC where they make u repay ur entry fee EVERY time u go out then come back in........

........GAY

sry to those who don't agree but I need my nicotine......

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

A negative cant be proven.

Show me one actual study that PROVES second hand smoke causes cancer. Not one that says it "might". You are going to be looking a long time... no one has published one yet. There is more evidence that your cell phone is giving you brain cancer than secondhand smoke will give you cancer. Then there are the studies that just got published that PROVE that there is a genetic factor that makes some people far more likely to get lung cancer... Like 80% of people with lung cancer have the genetic marker.

I'm going to get this off my chest too...

It's medically impossible to be allergic to smoke (of any type). Smoke particles are too small for an allergic reaction. All smoke does is irritate existing conditions.

[ttogreh]

Attack the methodology. Point to contradictory results with similar methodology. Don't hide behind words like "proof".

Science doesn't prove a god damn thing. It records observed phenomena.

[Msterbeau]

A negative cant be proven.

Show me one actual study that PROVES second hand smoke causes cancer. Not one that says it "might". You are going to be looking a long time... no one has published one yet. There is more evidence that your cell phone is giving you brain cancer than secondhand smoke will give you cancer. Then there are the studies that just got published that PROVE that there is a genetic factor that makes some people far more likely to get lung cancer... Like 80% of people with lung cancer have the genetic marker.

I'm going to get this off my chest too...

It's medically impossible to be allergic to smoke (of any type). Smoke particles are too small for an allergic reaction. All smoke does is irritate existing conditions.

You'll never technically "prove" secondhand smoke causes cancer because you really have no subjects to test. On the other hand. why would you need to? The same stuff that goes into the smokers lungs are going into others as well. The other link I posted demonstrates that clearly enough.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "A negative can't be proven" Do you mean since this study says the economic impact of a smoking ban is not going hurt business that it's impossible to prove the opposite?

[Msterbeau]

yeah well us smokers need our fix I'm not even gonna read this cuz I already know it's about how bad cigs r for you....I also already know how bad they r for you but it's sorta hard to quit...and I don't wanna have my right to smoke a cig after I eat at a resteraunt after I eator while I'm at the bar or club....

What r they planning on doing make us go outside? That wuld be gay as hell especially at CC where they make u repay ur entry fee EVERY time u go out then come back in........

........GAY

sry to those who don't agree but I need my nicotine......

There is no "right" to smoke. Just like driving and many other things....

[Angel of Death]

There is no "right" to smoke. Just like driving and many other things....

I am 18 yrs old I have the right pursue my own happiness don't I? Well maybe smoking a cig makes me happy

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

OK.

Fine.

Methodology.

If a person EVER comes into contact with cigarette smoke and then later gets lung cancer from working in a coal mine for 30 years. It's counted as a smoking related death.

and ttogreh, why are you not trying to get laser printers banned? Do you know how much Ozone they produce? How about you Marc? How about the Ionic Breeze? It's sole purpose is to create ozone and pump it into your house. And you live in Michigan! What about all the Radon gas that seeps out of the ground into your house?

Look. Before you attack me. I am dieing. I have about 6-10 years left (maybe) before the Emphazema makes me cough my lungs out and kills me in a horrible way. I've smoked since I was 12. Know what? It wasn't the smoking thats killing me. It was the chemical burns in my lungs from an industrial accident.

I would really like to die in a country where I am free. So please, keep your facists policys in check until after I die. Then you can inact all the leftwing policys you want.

[Hellion]

I am constantly breathing grinding dust(aluminum oxide) and coolant mist,but we cannot smoke on the property,hmm,I really like when apples and oranges are compared,welding smoke vs cigarette smoke.you do not want to know whats in welding fumes,especially when welding nickle,or kirksite alloys.

and yes,no smoking at bars. IMO it would have a negative effect on bar businesses.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Marc - What was that word people bandy about... causation? It's that thing missing between cigarettes and lung cancer. Whole lot of correlation... no causation. and almost no correlation between second hand smoke and lung cancer. There are a few new studys that have shits loads of correlation between genetics and lung cancer.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I am 18 yrs old I have the right pursue my own happiness don't I? Well maybe smoking a cig makes me happy

Sorry, dear... your missing the key word. PURSUE. You are totally free to TRY to be happy. If you actually et to happiness or not... is not guaranteed.

[Msterbeau]

OK.

Fine.

Methodology.

If a person EVER comes into contact with cigarette smoke and then later gets lung cancer from working in a coal mine for 30 years. It's counted as a smoking related death.

and ttogreh, why are you not trying to get laser printers banned? Do you know how much Ozone they produce? How about you Marc? How about the Ionic Breeze? It's sole purpose is to create ozone and pump it into your house. And you live in Michigan! What about all the Radon gas that seeps out of the ground into your house?

Look. Before you attack me. I am dieing. I have about 6-10 years left (maybe) before the Emphazema makes me cough my lungs out and kills me in a horrible way. I've smoked since I was 12. Know what? It wasn't the smoking thats killing me. It was the chemical burns in my lungs from an industrial accident.

I would really like to die in a country where I am free. So please, keep your facists policys in check until after I die. Then you can inact all the leftwing policys you want.

You can smoke all you want. But I' shouldn't t have to deal with it. I'm sorry your dying way sooner then your time, but your characterization of banning smoking in SOME public places as facist is horseshit. You want to smoke and you're angry that you may not be able to do it anywhere you please. That's fair. I want the speed limit to be 100MPH but I can't do that because it's in the best interest of the many for it to be lower. I accept that even though it pisses me off, because I'm more then qualified to drive that fast. Smoking is harmful. Period. You can deny the effects of secondhand smoke until your blue in the face and it still doesn't change the fact that it's an addictive carcinogen.

And somebody disprove the economic angle... because that's why the restaurants and bars are claiming there should be no ban.

[Msterbeau]

Marc - What was that word people bandy about... causation? It's that thing missing between cigarettes and lung cancer. Whole lot of correlation... no causation. and almost no correlation between second hand smoke and lung cancer. There are a few new studys that have shits loads of correlation between genetics and lung cancer.

Mark. You're throwing up smokescreens. (Haha.. Get it.. ) There may be no DIRECT correlation between smoking and lung cancer but the evidence that cigarettes are a carcinogen is undisputed. They ARE harmful.

I dunno... maybe you don't care because you've already resigned yourself to a shortened life (And again, I'm sorry for you and your family that that's the case.) but that doesn't mean that those of us in the majority should have to put up with the annoyance and irritation and potential harm they cause.

I'm done discussing the health angle.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

If this was truly about health factors... and not about if you want to smell it or not...

You would be all for mandatory instalation of Radon gas mitigation systems in every house.

You would be all for banning laser printers and ionic breeze units to get rid of the Ozone they pump out.

You would be all for dehumidifiers in every crawlspace to get rid of the moister that causes mold.

You would never go in the woods because the mold spoors in the average forest is worse for you than just about anything you will find in the city.

you would be for mandatory burning of leaves in the fall, because the dead leaves put out shit laods of mold spors.

I'm sorry. I don't by the media hype. The psudo-science that everyone else does. I don;t by the "Truth" because it's not the same thing as "The Whole Truth"

[phee]

If this was truly about health factors... and not about if you want to smell it or not...

You would be all for mandatory instalation of Radon gas mitigation systems in every house.

You would be all for banning laser printers and ionic breeze units to get rid of the Ozone they pump out.

You would be all for dehumidifiers in every crawlspace to get rid of the moister that causes mold.

You would never go in the woods because the mold spoors in the average forest is worse for you than just about anything you will find in the city.

you would be for mandatory burning of leaves in the fall, because the dead leaves put out shit laods of mold spors.

I'm sorry. I don't by the media hype. The psudo-science that everyone else does. I don;t by the "Truth" because it's not the same thing as "The Whole Truth"

I think it is truelly about health factors... the problem is though that people are kind of shallow... people don't get upset at mold because they don't smell it all the time (OK some do). With smoking, you see someone doing it, and you smell it, and start gagging immediatly... with Radon gas and a lot of the other examples they are just as bad, but not as "in your face"...

For the record... I love second hand smoke... I have never smoked a cig in my life, but there is a reason why I feel instantly good when I walk into CC... I admit it... I am addicted to smokers, just not to cigs.... heh

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Thats exactly why I think it's not about health. It's about the smell.

For every study thats says second hand smoke is a helth issue... there is one that says it is not.

Radon, as an example... there is not one study that says this radioactive gas in not bad for you.

[phee]

Thats exactly why I think it's not about health. It's about the smell.

For every study thats says second hand smoke is a helth issue... there is one that says it is not.

Radon, as an example... there is not one study that says this radioactive gas in not bad for you.

I agree with that...

[xbittergracex]

This whole thing is ridiculous.

Like here's a good one.....

Cedar Point now has designated smoking areas. Now, I completely understand not smoking in lines because people are cramped together.....however....how in the FUCK are you going to make OUTSIDE non-smoking????????

Not to mention bars and restaurants.....people have been smoking in them for years, and there has been no epidemic in the past century of cancers.....cancer is everywhere. I agree with Gaf on this whole issue....

Now on the otherhand, I understand that the smell bothers some people at places like restaurants.....but I can recall back when I was a non-smoker sitting in non-smoking at an OPEN restaurant like Rams Horn or something....and never did I cough and carry on, nor do I remember even smelling like smoke to the point it bothered me. I think its just one more thing to make a big deal out of.

People in this country are not happy unless half the population can find one unified reason to piss off the other half. We've been doing it for centuries. (Women, Black People, communists, Dem's VS Rep's, don't get me started on marijuana, Witch trials, Global Warming, World Issues, the 60's alone could make my point here......)

The US is like a big high school. There are a million cliques pointing out the faults of all the others....all we need is our own Carrie White to burn this shit to the ground.

/rant

[Fierce Critter]

You know, it's just this simple.

By smoking, you're putting something into the air that wasn't there before you lit up. Doesn't matter if there are already radon/printer emissions/blue alien farts floating around the airspace. We're talking about something that can be directly and consciously not done by human choice.

If you're not smoking, I'm not breathing your shit.

If you're there smoking, I'm forced to breathe your shit, 'cause I can't put up a plexiglass bubble to keep your shit out of me.

So if I want to keep your shit out of me, I can choose to not go somewhere where smoking is allowed.

And if I go somewhere where smoking is allowed - it's my choice, so I need to shut the fuck up about it.

But if you ("you" being a smoker) go somewhere where smoking isn't allowed, you also need to shut the fuck up about it.

It's.Just.That.Simple.

[xbittergracex]

You know, it's just this simple.

By smoking, you're putting something into the air that wasn't there before you lit up. Doesn't matter if there are already radon/printer emissions/blue alien farts floating around the airspace. We're talking about something that can be directly and consciously not done by human choice.

If you're not smoking, I'm not breathing your shit.

If you're there smoking, I'm forced to breathe your shit, 'cause I can't put up a plexiglass bubble to keep your shit out of me.

So if I want to keep your shit out of me, I can choose to not go somewhere where smoking is allowed.

And if I go somewhere where smoking is allowed - it's my choice, so I need to shut the fuck up about it.

But if you ("you" being a smoker) go somewhere where smoking isn't allowed, you also need to shut the fuck up about it.

It's.Just.That.Simple.

I do agree....HOWEVER....in what your saying implies a choice. And now smoking is being BANNED....so its not about where it is or isn't allowed.....by making everything NON-Smoking...it makes that you do your thing, I'll do my thing view pretty one sided.

[odims_sphere]

You know, it's just this simple.

By smoking, you're putting something into the air that wasn't there before you lit up. Doesn't matter if there are already radon/printer emissions/blue alien farts floating around the airspace. We're talking about something that can be directly and consciously not done by human choice.

If you're not smoking, I'm not breathing your shit.

If you're there smoking, I'm forced to breathe your shit, 'cause I can't put up a plexiglass bubble to keep your shit out of me.

So if I want to keep your shit out of me, I can choose to not go somewhere where smoking is allowed.

And if I go somewhere where smoking is allowed - it's my choice, so I need to shut the fuck up about it.

But if you ("you" being a smoker) go somewhere where smoking isn't allowed, you also need to shut the fuck up about it.

It's.Just.That.Simple.

[Hellion]

IMO I don't need these asshole lawmakers to save my self from myself I can do that on my own,

and I bet alot of them smoke too.

Also I do what I can to keep my smoke away from friends and family members who don't smoke.

I myself can sit in a non smoking section of a restaurant with other non smokers,and have no problems

What kills me is why the f$#& does a non smoker sit in the smoking section of a restaurant?

They could also have separate ,rooms in a bar or restaurant for smokers and non smokers,I think that would work well.