Whirlpool Suspends 39 Workers, Says They Lied About Smoking

[Miranda]

By Tom Murphy Associated Press Writer

Apr 22nd, 2008 | INDIANAPOLIS -- Smoking can be hazardous to your health, and it's turning into a bad career move, too.

A Whirlpool Corp. factory in Evansville, Ind., has suspended 39 workers who signed insurance paperwork claiming they don't use tobacco and then were seen smoking or chewing tobacco on company property. Now, some could be fired for lying, company spokeswoman Debby Castrale said.

As annual health care premiums rise more than 10 percent a year, many companies are trying to rein in costs by encouraging healthy living.

"I can't think of a client of ours who has not shifted their focus to controlling the cost of their health care plan," said Indianapolis benefits lawyer Mike Paton.

Some employers have developed wellness programs to motivate employees, while others ask employees to state on benefits forms whether they use tobacco.

Whirlpool, based in Benton Harbor, Mich., uses financial incentives to encourage U.S. workers and their dependents to abstain from tobacco use, spokeswoman Jill Saletta said. The specifics vary according to location.

In Evansville, the 1,500-employee factory charges tobacco users an extra $500 in annual health insurance premiums. The refrigerator factory has levied the extra premium since 1996, and it depends on employees to honestly fill out forms. It doesn't mandate blood tests to detect nicotine or trail employees outside work, Castrale said.

Management suspended the 39 employees Friday after they were spotted using either chewing tobacco on company property or taking a drag in one of the factory's dozen shelters for outdoor smoking, Castrale said.

"It's definitely not something we wanted to do," she said. "It's unpleasant."

The employees were suspended without pay, and they'll present their case at "fact-finding" meetings before management determines their fate. Whirlpool had to recall some laid-off workers to keep production running due to the suspensions.

A 2007 national survey showed that 16 percent of all large employers — those with 20,000 or more employees — adjust health care premium contributions according to the worker's smoking status, according to the human resources consulting firm Mercer.

The federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act limits the changes an employer can make to a health premium because of a worker's unhealthy habits. But it doesn't set parameters on punishment if an employee lies about his or her habit, Paton said.

Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, which advocates for employee privacy, sees no problem with employers trying to curb smoking. But he worries that the trend of cracking down on employees' unhealthy behavior is extending beyond tobacco use.

"We shouldn't have to give employers complete control over our private life so they can save a few dollars on medical care," he said.

2008 The Associated Press

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

"We shouldn't have to give employers complete control over our private life so they can save a few dollars on medical care," he said.

That sums up my thoughts pretty well.

[freydis]

i heard about this on am 950 this morning.

Honestly? They're getting away with firing them not because they smoke, but because they lied on paperwork they *signed*. Good grief, just be honest. If you smoke, say you smoke. Sure, you save money by lying, but essentially, you're committing fraud.

You choose to smoke, and you know youre going to get charged more for health insurance. So either quit smoking, or pay your extra premium.

And dont whine when you get fired for making fraudulent statements on your company health care forms.

[Fierce Critter]

Let me state for the record that I think this is bullshit.

[freydis]

Let me state for the record that I think this is bullshit.

So, you think it's ok to lie on a signed document?

Yeah, theyre pretty much using it as an excuse, so they can save money on insurance premiums. But-- the basic principal is sound. Any document you sign with your employer, stating that x fact is true--they reasonably have an expectation that you didnt lie to them. I kind of think this is much like the businesses a little while back that found out certain employees lied about their credentials (claimed degrees they didnt have), and then fired *them*. You lie to your employer, you run the risk of getting fired. Especially when the answer you give them makes a difference in services rendered to them by a third party.

[phee]

Its called insurance fraud...

If one of these people had cancer and lied about it as not being a pre-existing condition... it would be the same thing

[Fierce Critter]

So, you think it's ok to lie on a signed document?

Yeah, theyre pretty much using it as an excuse, so they can save money on insurance premiums. But-- the basic principal is sound. Any document you sign with your employer, stating that x fact is true--they reasonably have an expectation that you didnt lie to them. I kind of think this is much like the businesses a little while back that found out certain employees lied about their credentials (claimed degrees they didnt have), and then fired *them*. You lie to your employer, you run the risk of getting fired. Especially when the answer you give them makes a difference in services rendered to them by a third party.

I think it's bullshit to control a person's rights to fuck their own body up with tactics like this.

I'm massively anti-smoking. But the way they're going about this is fucked.

[phee]

I think it's bullshit to control a person's rights to fuck their own body up with tactics like this.

I'm massively anti-smoking. But the way they're going about this is fucked.

That I agree with... but if they are going to f*** up their body, I think that the people paying for the insurance and the mess these people have a right not to be lied to.

[Rev.Reverence]

I do not believe in Lying... it causes problems... look at it Spiritually, or Secularly...

..civilization, language, inter-personal-relation... require TRUTH...

..It is what society is founded on, and since people stopped being truthful,

civilization is sliding back into the muck from which it issued forth.....

[Fierce Critter]

That I agree with... but if they are going to f*** up their body, I think that the people paying for the insurance and the mess these people have a right not to be lied to.

To clarify.

I'm not saying I approve of them lying.

I am saying I disapprove of the initial requirements.

As a non-smoking fat chick, I'd say it'd be just as legitimate to require people to also never eat at McDonald's.

[phee]

To clarify.

I'm not saying I approve of them lying.

I am saying I disapprove of the initial requirements.

As a non-smoking fat chick, I'd say it'd be just as legitimate to require people to also never eat at McDonald's.

I can see that perspective....

It is a hard line to find... most insurance will have a health test to find out colesterol and things like that before coverage these days.

A hard one to decide.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I do not believe in Lying... it causes problems... look at it Spiritually, or Secularly...

..civilization, language, inter-personal-relation... require TRUTH...

..It is what society is founded on, and since people stopped being truthful,

civilization is sliding back into the muck from which it issued forth.....

When exactly did we live in a truthfull society?

[freydis]

To clarify.

I'm not saying I approve of them lying.

I am saying I disapprove of the initial requirements.

As a non-smoking fat chick, I'd say it'd be just as legitimate to require people to also never eat at McDonald's.

You mean basically where smokers pay higher premiums?

Theyve been doing that for years.

You also pay higher premiums with a lot of pre-existing conditions. The company just doesn't always pass on that extra cost.

This isnt really about smoking, its about the companies being cheap.

[Rev.Reverence]

When exactly did we live in a truthfull society?

In the beginning of society... or we wouldn't be here...

..

...and apparently THIS slipped past your eyes...YAH.. it must have...

BUT YOU QUOTED THE ANSWER

.It is what society is founded on, and since people stopped being truthful,

civilization is sliding back into the muck from which it issued forth.....

[ttogreh]

Oh, I don't know, Gaf... when exactly did perjury, fraud, and other deceptions become illegal?

Whirlpool should not have made such a requirement, but the workers should not have lied. Two wrongs do not make a right.

As for the obesity corollary, the two biggest killers in America are heart disease and the various illnesses caused by air pollution, be it smoking or living too close to the Wayne coal plant.

Don't lie, quit smoking, eat something green, and buy a compact fluorescent light bulb.

[Rev.Reverence]

You mean basically where smokers pay higher premiums?

Theyve been doing that for years.

You also pay higher premiums with a lot of pre-existing conditions. The company just doesn't always pass on that extra cost.

This isnt really about smoking, its about the companies being cheap.

Yeah, try getting insurance with a 'scitzo-' on your household books... my wife looked into it... we insured the kid cheap, but for ME, it would be stupendous...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Smoking is not a pre-existing condition.

BTW, it's not the Insurance companys charging more. It's the Primary Employer charging more to discourage smoking. The Company charges $500 more a year to people that smoke... the insurance does not cost more. It's a "Wellness program". It states that in the article.

[freydis]

Smoking is not a pre-existing condition.

BTW, it's not the Insurance companys charging more. It's the Primary Employer charging more to discourage smoking. The Company charges $500 more a year to people that smoke... the insurance does not cost more. It's a "Wellness program". It states that in the article.

If you look at the article, it says they "charge smokers $500 more in health insurance premiums". It doesnt say they're paying a company smoking tax. Also, the article starts out talking about how companies all over are trying to save on continually rising health insurance costs. Also, it would be against existing laws if they were simply charging a "smokers tax" instead of charging them more specifically on their health premiums. See below, found elsewhere on the net:

State law expressly allows employers to charge different premium rates as long as the differences reflect actual differential costs to the company.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Oh, I don't know, Gaf... when exactly did perjury, fraud, and other deceptions become illegal?

Whirlpool should not have made such a requirement, but the workers should not have lied. Two wrongs do not make a right.

As for the obesity corollary, the two biggest killers in America are heart disease and the various illnesses caused by air pollution, be it smoking or living too close to the Wayne coal plant.

Don't lie, quit smoking, eat something green, and buy a compact fluorescent light bulb.

Your right, Heart Desease is the #1 killer... but your wrong bout #2. Cancer is the #2 spot... granted, lung cancer is 30% of the total cancer deaths... but that means 70% of those death are not Lung cancer.

Obesity is a major factor in Heart Desease the #1 killer... it also is the main cause of Diabites which is in the #6 slot. and a factor in High Blood Pressure...#13

but lets look at some numbers... Cancer amounts to 22.8% of all deaths in the USA. Lung Cancer is 30.9% of those deaths.... so, about 7-8%... and not all cases of lung cancer can be traced to smoking or air pollution... Asbestoes and genetics are a factor...

All that drops Smoking related lung cancer down to around 4-6 place depedning on a margin of error.

And puts Obesity at #1 or #2

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

If you look at the article, it says they "charge smokers $500 more in health insurance premiums". It doesnt say they're paying a company smoking tax. Also, the article starts out talking about how companies all over are trying to save on continually rising health insurance costs. Also, it would be against existing laws if they were simply charging a "smokers tax" instead of charging them more specifically on their health premiums. See below, found elsewhere on the net:

Yes, the company... Whirlpool in this case... is charing $500 more a year for the premium... where does it say that they pass that cash on to the insurance company? It says they do it as part of thier own internal "Wellness" program. No where does it say that they are being charged more for smoking employees.

More employers requiring tobacco users to pay higher premiums

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

In the beginning of society... or we wouldn't be here...

..

...and apparently THIS slipped past your eyes...YAH.. it must have...

BUT YOU QUOTED THE ANSWER

LET ME TRY THIS IN A WAY YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND.

WHEN WAS THAT? WHAT SOCIETY? WHAT TIME PERIOD? WHATS YOUR PROOF THAT NOBODY LIED?

[torn asunder]

simple fact - falsification of company documents = written up / fired, in every company i've ever worked for...

i don't really care what the topic being lied about is.

[Rev.Reverence]

Well a date is nigh impossible...

..but... how would a group of people who did not share HONESTLY kill mammoths...

...Pyramids...Aqueducts...Temples...invent MATH...

Or do you think these things are all lie?

[Oh_My_Goth]

Smokers tend to have more health problems, that is a fact.....

Insurance is for unexpected health issues.....

If somebody smokes and doesn't expect health problems, then physical health is the least of their issues.....

These people lied.....Why? Was it to save on their premiums? To save a buck? Probably.....

Who is really wrong here?????

I say the lairs are.....

Look at the big picture.....This type of stuff hurts everyones wallet.

[Oh_My_Goth]

LET ME TRY THIS IN A WAY YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND.

WHEN WAS THAT? WHAT SOCIETY? WHAT TIME PERIOD? WHATS YOUR PROOF THAT NOBODY LIED?

Petty!!!!! &