Supreme Court says Americans have right to guns

[phee]

I have nothing against guns. The more the merrier. They should be issued to everyone at birth as an American right to honor the 2nd Amendment.

I just say we make all ammunition illegal. See? Both sides happy.

LOL

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The militia of the day, 1770s, was any force of men ready to defend their town. One only has to read about the Revolutionary war in a little detail to see that.

It was the everyday Man dropping his plow and picking up his rifle. Standing with his neighbors and countrymen to defend what was theirs and their way of life.

The National Guard is a trained government fighting force that didn't exist for another... 140 years?

Right, its the historical progression of what was an informal state militia, and the constitutional interpretation seems to be that "milita" referred to there, as it exists in modern times, is now the national guard. That is part time citizen-solders that slowly shifted from more informal groups to a government "well regulated" militia. Its fairly well accepted that the national guard fills the role of the old , more informal paramilitary militias. Not to say I like, or want that to be the case.

The militia system existing at the time of the second amendment's ratification has disappeared. Instead, the United States now has an organized militia system, the national guard; a federal unorganized militia as well as an unorganized militia in most states and various police and law enforcement agencies. Some proponents of the private militias claim that their organizations fit within the scope of second amendment protections as well. However, recent federal decisions have limited the militia to include only the national guard.

(just some crap I typed out from a constitutional law article i have.)

"A well regulated militia" is not, just random people picking up a gun and throwing down the plow and beating their chests with some sort of righteous patriotism. I know you don't think it is, i'm just setting up a point there. That's not to say we shouldn't have both the national guard and (somewhat) informal militia, its just that I've read at least 4 times now that what was once a large, paramilitary militia slowly morphed into the national guard. What i mean by that is the courts INTERPRITATION of what "militia" refers to.

From a "original intent" interpretation of the constitution both Madison and Jefferson exposed the idea in one form or another that to quote Jefferson "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." extrapolated out, the only way to really do that would be with a non-governmental militia, since the national guard is basically just an arm of the army.

They were in fear of the government becoming too strong. Unfortunately i think we are far, far beyond the ability of the civilian population to really "rise up and overthrow" the government anymore. The hair splitting we do legally over what type of guns we can and can't own is funny in this context of the people, keeping the government in its place, via arms. Would take a lot more than a rabble of tech-9 wielding Michigan state militiamen to overthrow the U.S. government. Not that I'm happy about that.

[n0Mad]

On the militia ...

During WWII the Japanese had intricate plans to invade the American mainland but after considerable deliberation, they decided not to. Why? While our military was deployed over in Europe, America would've been pretty easy to invade but the Japanese feared the private citizen with a gun. They knew even our women packed heat and were scared shitless because of it so they canceled their invasion.

And, you don't think a bunch of civilians with hunting rifles and handguns can do anything against a modern military? Just look at places like Croatia. Hell, the war in Iraq would've been over years ago if it were just military vs. military. It's all those damn civilians with rifles and homemade bombs that's dragging this out. Never underestimate a civilian fighting force. It's like Stormtroopers vs. Ewoks.

As far as civilians owning rocket launchers ... I read a great article on that once. Something about Jefferson owning a machine gun or something. I'll have to see if I can find the article but our forefathers were all about modern, automatic, military weapons.

[machine]

On the militia ...

During WWII the Japanese had intricate plans to invade the American mainland but after considerable deliberation, they decided not to. Why? While our military was deployed over in Europe, America would've been pretty easy to invade but the Japanese feared the private citizen with a gun. They knew even our women packed heat and were scared shitless because of it so they canceled their invasion.

And, you don't think a bunch of civilians with hunting rifles and handguns can do anything against a modern military? Just look at places like Croatia. Hell, the war in Iraq would've been over years ago if it were just military vs. military. It's all those damn civilians with rifles and homemade bombs that's dragging this out. Never underestimate a civilian fighting force. It's like Stormtroopers vs. Ewoks.

As far as civilians owning rocket launchers ... I read a great article on that once. Something about Jefferson owning a machine gun or something. I'll have to see if I can find the article but our forefathers were all about modern, automatic, military weapons.

You mean insurgents... and the insurgent's deliberate attacks on the civilians.

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/10/03/iraq11804.htm

[ttogreh]

I think spook means informally trained militia. Their motivations and tactics are irrelevant to his point.

[Hellion]

I have two friends in the Mi Militia they are very responsible with firearms and believe highly in the right to own and bare arms,with common sense.

I own three guns as well,but have them in locked storage since I got bored with hunting,and

the only time I use them is on a firing range.

[phee]

I have two friends in the Mi Militia they are very responsible with firearms and believe highly in the right to own and bare arms,with common sense.

I own three guns as well,but have them in locked storage since I got bored with hunting,and

the only time I use them is on a firing range.

I thought the MI Militia disbanded in 2001....

[Homicidalheathen]

I dunno...(I dont think it will hold) look at what happened in New Orleans.

If it comes right down to it....we have already lost our right to bare arms.

You going to go up against a tank to make your point if it comes down to that? Cause I am not.

[Hellion]

I thought the MI Militia disbanded in 2001....

Not quite sure myself if they did,have not spoke to them in a long time,I think they pretty much keep everything underground to avoid attention,just my theory.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Michigan Militia

[Fin]

Michigan Militia

Further interesting reading

[jynxxxedangel]

Just a thought my friends..

In case you all don't do this already..copy the link and paste into your browser, rather than quick linking..

We don't want too much undue attention from The Man.

[Nightgaunt]

I wouldn't necessarily hail this as a 2nd Amendment victory...

In a concluding paragraph to the his 64-page opinion, Scalia said the justices in the majority "are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country" and believe the Constitution "leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that problem, including some measures regulating handguns."

Couldn't this be read as, "We uphold your right to bear arms and also the right of the authorities to ban them."? Maybe not; I'm certainly no lawyer, but this sounds a little fucky to me.

[ttogreh]

I think Scalia is saying that a reasonable interpretation of the "well regulated" clause could be not allowing felons to (legally) own firearms, and requiring law abiding folk to go through a gun safety course.

That doesn't sound onerous to me.

[Rev.Reverence]

Scalia noted that the handgun is Americans' preferred weapon of self-defense in part because "it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police."

NOT A GREAT IDEAL...I have it on exceedingly good authority that you CAN break a wrist AND miss the shot.

[Rev.Reverence]

Mich Militia apparently is down on nerd count...all the interesting links are broken...most of the ones I clicked...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I dunno...(I dont think it will hold) look at what happened in New Orleans.

If it comes right down to it....we have already lost our right to bare arms.

You going to go up against a tank to make your point if it comes down to that? Cause I am not.

Yes, I would.

[phee]

Yes, I would.

Of course and unfortunatly the person in that photo was killed.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Your point?

Sometimes, a point is so HUGE that you have to die to make it.

[phee]

Your point?

Sometimes, a point is so HUGE that you have to die to make it.

That he was killed.... he did not "successfully" stand up to the tanks.

[Nightgaunt]

That he was killed.... he did not "successfully" stand up to the tanks.

No? The whole world remembers what he did on that day. He made his stand.

[phee]

No? The whole world remembers what he did on that day. He made his stand.

Not saying it was bad or wrong... but the question was whether one would be brave enough to do it themselves.... and Gaf was saying he is.... I am not disagreeing, just pointing out that he was in fact killed, and wasn't sure if that would effect ones bravery.

*Grabs the wheel, and steers the thread back on topic*

So do you guys think that more guns = less people killed by them?

[Rev.Reverence]

I'm not sure we will EVER have a handgun..(other than a black powder mussel loader to match the hunting rifle I have wanted since my Daniel Boone/Jim Bowie phase started at about 11years old.)

To answer the question though...

So do you guys think that more guns = less people killed by them?

I would not put the = sign in it...but it is a HIGHLY probable outcome.

Case point...

Switzerland...how many guns are there in Switzerland...how many people there 'die by bullet' in a year?

[phee]

I'm not sure we will EVER have a handgun..(other than a black powder mussel loader to match the hunting rifle I have wanted since my Daniel Boone/Jim Bowie phase started at about 11years old.)

To answer the question though...

I would not put the = sign in it...but it is a HIGHLY probable outcome.

Case point...

Switzerland...how many guns are there in Switzerland...how many people there 'die by bullet' in a year?

But that is not true for other contries that have less guns.... I don't think honestly that guns are the problem, its "Gun Culture" if you know what I mean?

[ttogreh]

Our gun culture...

80 million known gun owners, 200 million known guns...

More people die on our highways than by our guns. We are the most armed nation on the history of the planet.