Anti-smoking law in Michigan?

[Hellion]

Just go to Gary Ind,or Delray,you dont need to smoke to get lung disease in those areas

[Rev.Reverence]

That remark was aimed at our fine outstanding government and not anyone here.

Oh how I love our lawmakers.

+1

*to O_M_G*

^{(look honey we're being sarcastic!)}

[peelingchrome]

Name Three.

A good article if anyone has time or is inclined to read it.

I myself would like to see one death certificate where the cause of death is listed as second hand smoke.

Great article!

On topic: I'm against the ban of smoking. I feel that Benjamin Franklin was right when he said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." The temporary safety is that which occured during prohibition. People were "safe" from alcohol, but it lead to a large (and often violent) black market. Same with the "War on Drugs". Same with various states' weapons bans. If you ban something, a black market will be created. If the desire for the item is high enough, then that black market will be a violent one.

Nicotine is a drug, like alcohol, THC, and many others. Banning this one will eventually lead to the same results that were brought about by banning other drugs.

What if people had just a little respect for eachother? If a nonsmoker was in the park near a smoker, couldn't the non just politely ask the smoker to move a little out of the way until they were done smoking? Is this really such an issue? "Hey, man, I have respiratory problems but I want to keep a good eye on my kids at the park here. Would you mind taking that a bit over there till you're done? I'd appreciate it." Yes there will be assholes who would disrespect an approach like that, but the world is full of assholes.

What if we let people regulate themselves instead of having the government regulate us?

And anyways, the police and courts have better things to do than ticket smokers. Like protect people from violent crime.

[Oh_My_Goth]

+1

*to O_M_G*

^{(look honey we're being sarcastic!)}

Good job.....BB steps.....

[Fin]

At 6'6" I am 'supposed' (Dr.'s quote) about 235-250

You really should stop smoking--it will stunt your growth, you know.

What if people had just a little respect for each other?

There is the heart of this issue, IMO. Thanks for posting that rhetorical question, PC.

Courtesy counts, whether you smoke or don't. Go ahead--call me old-fashioned.

[Rev.Reverence]

Great article!

I feel that Benjamin Franklin was right when he said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

What if people had just a little respect for eachother? If a nonsmoker was in the park near a smoker, couldn't the non just politely ask the smoker to move a little out of the way until they were done smoking? Is this really such an issue? "Hey, man, I have respiratory problems but I want to keep a good eye on my kids at the park here. Would you mind taking that a bit over there till you're done? I'd appreciate it." Yes there will be assholes who would disrespect an approach like that, but the world is full of assholes.

What if we let people regulate themselves instead of having the government regulate us?

And anyways, the police and courts have better things to do than ticket smokers. Like protect people from violent crime.

Ben is smiling right now!

We have a consensus! People need to respect each other...

[n0Mad]

Name Three.

A good article if anyone has time or is inclined to read it.

I myself would like to see one death certificate where the cause of death is listed as second hand smoke.

That was a good article. I enjoyed reading it, thanks.

[n0Mad]

Great article!

On topic: I'm against the ban of smoking. I feel that Benjamin Franklin was right when he said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." The temporary safety is that which occured during prohibition. People were "safe" from alcohol, but it lead to a large (and often violent) black market. Same with the "War on Drugs". Same with various states' weapons bans. If you ban something, a black market will be created. If the desire for the item is high enough, then that black market will be a violent one.

Nicotine is a drug, like alcohol, THC, and many others. Banning this one will eventually lead to the same results that were brought about by banning other drugs.

What if people had just a little respect for eachother? If a nonsmoker was in the park near a smoker, couldn't the non just politely ask the smoker to move a little out of the way until they were done smoking? Is this really such an issue? "Hey, man, I have respiratory problems but I want to keep a good eye on my kids at the park here. Would you mind taking that a bit over there till you're done? I'd appreciate it." Yes there will be assholes who would disrespect an approach like that, but the world is full of assholes.

What if we let people regulate themselves instead of having the government regulate us?

And anyways, the police and courts have better things to do than ticket smokers. Like protect people from violent crime.

Great post! I agree with everything you just wrote. I use a paraphrase of the Ben Franklin quote often.

There was an episode of Penn & Teller's "Bullshit" that dealt with the Americans With Disabilities Act. The main theme was people will polite and courteous or they won't and no amount of legislation will change that. In fact, legislation is more likely to make people less kind.

[Rayne]

Is there evidence that second hand smoke has ever caused one death?

No.

Are there many studies that say "Maybe"?

Yes.

Maybe is not proof positive.

Is there proof that smoke is an Asthma trigger?

Yes.

Is there proof that to keep an asthatic away from all possible triggers requires them living in a plastic bubble?

Yes.

How much are you willing to go the put the rest of the world in a plastic bubble to protect yourself?

My biggest triggers are smoke. Mainly anything you smoke will send me into an asthma attack or at the very least a sneezing fit -- and I'm talking sneezing until my throat bleeds.

Followed by outside junk (dogwood, pollen etc -- but I also have allergies on top of that) and city tap water (seriously, ask Phee, it must be some chemical they add at the water treatment plant -- I go into a sneezing fit everytime).

I am not aware if there is proof that SHS has actually caused any deaths, but I admitted that. I'm also *pretty sure* there's proof of SHS causing serious problems for other people.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

My biggest triggers are smoke. Mainly anything you smoke will send me into an asthma attack or at the very least a sneezing fit -- and I'm talking sneezing until my throat bleeds.

Followed by outside junk (dogwood, pollen etc -- but I also have allergies on top of that) and city tap water (seriously, ask Phee, it must be some chemical they add at the water treatment plant -- I go into a sneezing fit everytime).

I am not aware if there is proof that SHS has actually caused any deaths, but I admitted that. I'm also *pretty sure* there's proof of SHS causing serious problems for other people.

agreed....smoke of ANY kind can be an asthma trigger...but there are ppl with asthma that are better off BECAUSE they smoke.

I used to have a friend that smoked menthol cigarettes to a somewhat ample degree...and he has asthma. The fiberglass in the filters for the menthol cigs actually coats his lungs and keeps him from coughing fits, something that I've only seen once or twice in 4-5 years of know him.

no, it's not the DIRECT effects of the smoke itself...it's the effects of the filter....but if he had never taken up smoking, then he could very well be worse for wear.

[odims_sphere]

This argument is pointless really. It's impossible to convince an addict that what they are doing is wrong. Ask any crack head, they'll tell you it has no negative effects and should be legal.

Since we're so on the subject of laws taking away freedoms, why have laws at all? Every single law on the book takes away god-given rights. I don't here you bitching about the ban on murder, but isn't that taking away my right to kill other people? Why is it illegal to rape 5 year-old boys? That's taking away my freedom to do just that!

It's very very clear. Smoking puts something in the air that was not there before, which I am now forced to make a choice to deal with it or go somewhere else. I'm not arguing the health issue, kill yourself slowly if you want, I don't give a shit, but your "right" to smoke does not inherently give you the "right" to do it to me.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

This argument is pointless really. It's impossible to convince an addict that what they are doing is wrong. Ask any crack head, they'll tell you it has no negative effects and should be legal.

Since we're so on the subject of laws taking away freedoms, why have laws at all? Every single law on the book takes away god-given rights. I don't here you bitching about the ban on murder, but isn't that taking away my right to kill other people? Why is it illegal to rape 5 year-old boys? That's taking away my freedom to do just that!

It's very very clear. Smoking puts something in the air that was not there before, which I am now forced to make a choice to deal with it or go somewhere else. I'm not arguing the health issue, kill yourself slowly if you want, I don't give a shit, but your "right" to smoke does not inherently give you the "right" to do it to me.

your NOT smoking...and you can easily move away as well....again..it comes down to respect...not bans.

[odims_sphere]

your NOT smoking...and you can easily move away as well....again..it comes down to respect...not bans.

Please explain how not smoking is disrespectful?

And what you are saying is that killing people should be legal, we should just ask murderers to be respectful and not kill?

Asking a smoker to be respectful and not smoke is just as asinine.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Asking a smoker to be respectful and not smoke is just as asinine.

Wow...because I've done it...i'm sure Rev has....and I know MANY other smokers that have as well.

I just love how, just because people smoke, that you just grouped us all into this fence and called us all asses...very, very mature and thought out there.

If you would PREFER that I not smoke around you....make the request...I'll grant it...just as anyone else with any sense of decency and respect...but don't sit there and tell me that because I smoke I'm asinine.

[phee]

Wow...because I've done it...i'm sure Rev has....and I know MANY other smokers that have as well.

I just love how, just because people smoke, that you just grouped us all into this fence and called us all asses...very, very mature and thought out there.

If you would PREFER that I not smoke around you....make the request...I'll grant it...just as anyone else with any sense of decency and respect...but don't sit there and tell me that because I smoke I'm asinine.

Again... and for those people who would say "Fuck Off" and blow a puff in your kids face knowing that nothing can happen to them?

[Rev.Reverence]

This argument is pointless really. It's impossible to convince an addict that what they are doing is wrong. Ask any crack head, they'll tell you it has no negative effects and should be legal.

Since we're so on the subject of laws taking away freedoms, why have laws at all? Every single law on the book takes away god-given rights. I don't here you bitching about the ban on murder, but isn't that taking away my right to kill other people? Why is it illegal to rape 5 year-old boys? That's taking away my freedom to do just that!

It's very very clear. Smoking puts something in the air that was not there before, which I am now forced to make a choice to deal with it or go somewhere else. I'm not arguing the health issue, kill yourself slowly if you want, I don't give a shit, but your "right" to smoke does not inherently give you the "right" to do it to me.

That is just the point. SO DO FACTORIES...and incinerators...and cars...and planes...etc.....

Why can I not smoke walking down the street?

How is me walking with a tiny trail of smoke (goin' up) going to hurt anyone?

I gave back my auto license out of a sense of responsibility, so I don't drive.

This law, (as I understand it), will make it so that I have to smoke in my house.

I have a child, in a small house. I would rather smoke outside (responsible, ya' I know).

What right have you or any other person have to curtail me in my pursuit of what I deem to make me happy?

I think I do that fine on my own.

Also please do not speak for all smokers the way you did...it is not empirical in any way nor does it show the superior intellect that I know you to possess.

I for one know I am blowing poison into the air, and do my best to not hurt anyone around me.

Your words hurt my feelings and shed an ill light upon yourself.

[Destroit]

Again... and for those people who would say "Fuck Off" and blow a puff in your kids face knowing that nothing can happen to them?

...beat down?

Oh fuck...that's right...not everyone is me.

[phee]

That is just the point. SO DO FACTORIES...and incinerators...and cars...and planes...etc.....

Why can I not smoke walking down the street?

How is me walking with a tiny trail of smoke (goin' up) going to hurt anyone?

I gave back my auto license out of a sense of responsibility, so I don't drive.

This law, (as I understand it), will make it so that I have to smoke in my house.

I have a child, in a small house. I would rather smoke outside (responsible, ya' I know).

What right have you or any other person have to curtail me in my pursuit of what I deem to make me happy?

I think I do that fine on my own.

Also please do not speak for all smokers the way you did...it is not empirical in any way nor does it show the superior intellect that I know you to possess.

I for one know I am blowing poison into the air, and do my best to not hurt anyone around me.

Your words hurt my feelings and shed an ill light upon yourself.

The answer.... the street is not owned by the factory... no one is forcing you to be on the property of said factory and breath in. Next there are people who are trying to control air pollution from factrories for that reason.

[Rev.Reverence]

Again... and for those people who would say "Fuck Off" and blow a puff in your kids face knowing that nothing can happen to them?

Punch them in the eye. I would...in an instant.

I forget who I'm quoting....."If the world had more black eyes..........there would be fewer wars."

[phee]

...beat down?

Oh fuck...that's right...not everyone is me.

Punch them in the eye. I would...in an instant.

I forget who I'm quoting....."If the world had more black eyes..........there would be fewer wars."

Again... there are laws that prevent a persons right to beat down another... and for good reason IMO. But if you are truelly an anarchist... then more power to ya!

[Rev.Reverence]

Again... there are laws that prevent a persons right to beat down another... and for good reason IMO. But if you are truelly an anarchist... then more power to ya!

I see cigarette smoke in my child's face as an ASSAULT on my family.

Perhaps a "full beat down" is a bit out of order.....but the fucker needs to get hit...that is why people do not respect each other any more...NO FEAR.

[Destroit]

Wow...because I've done it...i'm sure Rev has....and I know MANY other smokers that have as well.

I just love how, just because people smoke, that you just grouped us all into this fence and called us all asses...very, very mature and thought out there.

If you would PREFER that I not smoke around you....make the request...I'll grant it...just as anyone else with any sense of decency and respect...but don't sit there and tell me that because I smoke I'm asinine.

Or me...I always keep a good distance between myself and a child when I'm smoking outside.

Hell...when my best friend Lisa smoked she wouldn't even in FRONT of kids because she felt bad...like it was setting a bad example.

And...if there's some disrespectful anus face who won't go away from your children while blowing out smoke...please refer to my last post (i.e. BEAT DOWN). Yeah...it's not legal...but hell I break the law at least daily, usually more than once, so whatev.

[phee]

I see cigarette smoke in my child's face as an ASSAULT on my family.

Perhaps a "full beat down" is a bit out of order.....but the fucker needs to get hit...that is why people do not respect each other any more...NO FEAR.

And yet.... him blowing smoke in your kids face is what you are trying to defend.... and the beat down/smack in the face is illegal.... I think you can see the hypocracy there.

[odims_sphere]

That is just the point. SO DO FACTORIES...and incinerators...and cars...and planes...etc.....

Since you want to equate smoking with these other cancer causing agents i'll choose to follow your logic. Remember these are your analogies so...

It is illegal to operate

FACTORIES...and incinerators...and cars...and planes...etc.....

in a public park. Therefore, again following your logic, it should be illegal to smoke in a public park.

Don't you see, your own argument is in favor of banning smoking in public places, you just don't want to.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

And yet.... him blowing smoke in your kids face is what you are trying to defend.... and the beat down/smack in the face is illegal.... I think you can see the hypocracy there.

no...I think we been saying that a level of advertising or something of the sort that shows proper RESPECT and RESPONSIBILITY for smoking in public needs to be proceeded with BEFORE you straight out take away rights.