Anti-smoking law in Michigan?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Responsible gun owners are lumped into a group with murders, gang members and common criminals all the time. It happens. Doesn't make it right, but it is a reality. If I choose to own a gun I choose to deal with the restrictions and limitations that come with it. If you choose to smoke, you choose to deal with the restrictions and limitations that come with that.

yeah...and if you go apeshit and own a gun...you can go and shoot up a whole room full of ppl.....if I have a pack of smokes and go apeshit...what am I gonna do.....smoke the pack till it's gone and hope everyone that walks by me gets cancer in 30 years?

[CandyQuackenbush]

This thread makes me giggle.

[phee]

yeah...and if you go apeshit and own a gun...you can go and shoot up a whole room full of ppl.....if I have a pack of smokes and go apeshit...what am I gonna do.....smoke the pack till it's gone and hope everyone that walks by me gets cancer in 30 years?

You were the one that brought up the gun comparison first I believe....

But.... I would like to ask what about things like noise restrictions.... people are no allowed to set up speakers and blair music in the park either... Car stereos have to be kept down to a certain level, even though neither action is a "health risk".... or do you believe that those noise ordinace laws should be done away with as well, as it interferes with someones right to choose to be noisey?

[peelingchrome]

You were the one that brought up the gun comparison first I believe....

But.... I would like to ask what about things like noise restrictions.... people are no allowed to set up speakers and blair music in the park either... Car stereos have to be kept down to a certain level, even though neither action is a "health risk".... or do you believe that those noise ordinace laws should be done away with as well, as it interferes with someones right to choose to be noisey?

I think that (imho) can be a reasonable comparison, bit I see it a bit differently...

I can choose to listen to music near a park or not listen to music near a park.

I can choose to smoke near a park or not smoke near a park.

I can choose to listen to music at a polite volume or a rude volume near a park.

I can choose to smoke politely or rudely near a park.

How appropriate is that view?

---

Edited to further a comparison.

What about different kinds of music versus different kinds of smoke? What about the difference between rap, kidsongs, heavy metal, and country? And what if we split hairs further to specify political rap, Christian-themed heavy metal, and only country about drinking heavily? How far do you want me to take this? A barbeque at a park will release much larger quantities of impurities than a cigarette smoker over an equal time frame. What about the difference between a charcoal barbeque and a wood barbeque? What about different brands of lighter fluid?

Or what if we stopped being all snarky and just said, "Hey, you mind turning that down?" or "Hey, I've got kids here. Would you mind smoking a bit further away?" I don't need a nanny with a badge to tell me where I can smoke. I just need people to give me a little respect; I respond with as much respect as I'm given.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

You were the one that brought up the gun comparison first I believe....

But.... I would like to ask what about things like noise restrictions.... people are no allowed to set up speakers and blair music in the park either... Car stereos have to be kept down to a certain level, even though neither action is a "health risk".... or do you believe that those noise ordinace laws should be done away with as well, as it interferes with someones right to choose to be noisey?

you asking me if I believe in "noise polution"??....phee...I'm a booking agent....the louder the better....lol

[phee]

you asking me if I believe in "noise polution"??....phee...I'm a booking agent....the louder the better....lol

What if its Britney Spears?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

What if its Britney Spears?

honestly...much as I hate her..yeah...turn it up....if I'm gonna do it...I can't discriminate...that would make me a hypocrite...and I try so hard NOT to be one.

[phee]

honestly...much as I hate her..yeah...turn it up....if I'm gonna do it...I can't discriminate...that would make me a hypocrite...and I try so hard NOT to be one.

What about gangsta rap in a public park where kids are? all swear words and kill whitey sentiment included?

[peelingchrome]

See edit to my post above...? /\ /\ /\

[phee]

Or what if we stopped being all snarky and just said, "Hey, you mind turning that down?" or "Hey, I've got kids here. Would you mind smoking a bit further away?" I don't need a nanny with a badge to tell me where I can smoke. I just need people to give me a little respect; I respond with as much respect as I'm given.

This is true.... but as stated earlier in the discussion... what about the people not like you, who would then say fuck you and blow smoke in your kids face... it IS illegal to slap the bastard, but it is not illegal for him to blow smoke in your kids face in the park.... some people only respond to fear of punishment... I personally can think of plenty of instances where I am alone on the road at night and really feel like speeding, but I don't because I don't want a ticket.

[know_buddy_kares]

What about gangsta rap in a public park where kids are? all swear words and kill whitey sentiment included?

dont worry.. I did my part by rolling down 6 mile blasting Chimaira, Cradle of Filth, Children of Bodom, Gorogoth, Behemoth.. ect...

I decided to go to the ghetto and see how THEY liked it when someone blasted some noise polution in their hood for once...

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

What about gangsta rap in a public park where kids are? all swear words and kill whitey sentiment included?

I've heard more cussing on "deadliest catch" then I have on a couple uncensored rap cd's I got....and any DECENT artist has left the "kill whitey" shyt behind...because thats 80's-90's bullshyt...new millenium "gangsta's" are about money, cars, n bitches

so now..while I don't dig the music, or most of the artist's....again...I can't descriminate personally....however...should a parent of children ask them to turn it down...and they don't...I'll be there, on the parents side of things

it still comes down to trying respect first...and that includes ASKING for it.

[phee]

I've heard more cussing on "deadliest catch" then I have on a couple uncensored rap cd's I got....and any DECENT artist has left the "kill whitey" shyt behind...because thats 80's-90's bullshyt...new millenium "gangsta's" are about money, cars, n bitches

so now..while I don't dig the music, or most of the artist's....again...I can't descriminate personally....however...should a parent of children ask them to turn it down...and they don't...I'll be there, on the parents side of things

it still comes down to trying respect first...and that includes ASKING for it.

For smoking in the park, fucking in the park, raping monkeys in the park, or playing music in the park.... if asking doesn't work.... what is next?

[know_buddy_kares]

For smoking in the park, fucking in the park, raping monkeys in the park, or playing music in the park.... if asking doesn't work.... what is next?

play some black metal about sacrificing and drinking the blood of goats in the park :D

[peelingchrome]

This is true.... but as stated earlier in the discussion... what about the people not like you, who would then say fuck you and blow smoke in your kids face... it IS illegal to slap the bastard, but it is not illegal for him to blow smoke in your kids face in the park.... some people only respond to fear of punishment... I personally can think of plenty of instances where I am alone on the road at night and really feel like speeding, but I don't because I don't want a ticket.

What if I got a whole bunch of musicians, poets, painters... a whole bunch of artists together. And what if they said that the park was a great place to facilitate their creativity. And what if they said noisy kids took away from their creative process and thus wanted to ban children from the park? They wouldn't be striking out against all kids, persay, just the noisy ones. But to do that would be suggesting what you are: public ban. And yes, children are regulated by law (guardianship, schooling, etc) just like cigarettes. Two controlled objects (pardon the coarse viewpoint, I don't believe children are objects) being restricted because of a few assholes.

Why can't we all just get the f*** along? The world is full of different people, and some of them are rude. Laws won't change that. Those same people will probably smoke in their car and then dump their ashtray in the park's water fountain or something similar. The world isn't perfect. President Lincoln grew up in a land with many fewer laws, but he turned out ok (imho).

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

This is true.... but as stated earlier in the discussion... what about the people not like you, who would then say fuck you and blow smoke in your kids face... it IS illegal to slap the bastard, but it is not illegal for him to blow smoke in your kids face in the park.... some people only respond to fear of punishment... I personally can think of plenty of instances where I am alone on the road at night and really feel like speeding, but I don't because I don't want a ticket.

actually....*thinks*...there MIGHT be a way to argue it in a court of law as assault.

Spitting on someone is considered Assault, because it is the exchange of bodily fluids in a violent matter....a good enough lawyer can get that same concept to apply to EXACTLY what you mentioned there.

and we're in America, phee....land of amazing lawsuits and crazy ppl praising cheetos.

If you can sue for hot coffee, eating fast food, and get 3-5 for spiting on someone....for the jackass that doesn't respect you....find a good lawyer...or rather...a good bullshytter...and sue.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

For smoking in the park, fucking in the park, raping monkeys in the park, or playing music in the park.... if asking doesn't work.... what is next?

and yes...I know that asking won't work for EVERYONE...but what hurt can it do trying??

[phee]

What if I got a whole bunch of musicians, poets, painters... a whole bunch of artists together. And what if they said that the park was a great place to facilitate their creativity. And what if they said noisy kids took away from their creative process and thus wanted to ban children from the park? They wouldn't be striking out against all kids, persay, just the noisy ones. But to do that would be suggesting what you are: public ban. And yes, children are regulated by law (guardianship, schooling, etc) just like cigarettes. Two controlled objects (pardon the coarse viewpoint, I don't believe children are objects) being restricted because of a few assholes.

Why can't we all just get the f*** along? The world is full of different people, and some of them are rude. Laws won't change that. Those same people will probably smoke in their car and then dump their ashtray in the park's water fountain or something similar. The world isn't perfect. President Lincoln grew up in a land with many fewer laws, but he turned out ok (imho).

True... a few asshats can ruin the whole bunch

[Rev.Reverence]

I understand your concerns, & certainly where rights are being threatened, a stand should be made. As it stands, smoking is not a guaranteed "right," however--whether it should be or not. That was the intention of my orginal post.

As for small bars/clubs going out of business, I certainly understand the concern. However when public bans on smoking were adopted in New York & California, people adapted & businesses survived. It makes sense that smokers wouldn't appreciate such a ban, but experience in Cali & NYC suggests Michigan would land on its feet.

You are a force to be reckoned with, Rev my friend. No worries, mate--tin hats look good on ya.

Thanx...It ties onto the dreads so that I don't loose it chasing after black helicopters in the night...

Yeah..I heard that about Cali& NYC... but those people are a totally different brand of sheeple.

It is a Right for me to smoke; not to smoke where I want.

I did not say "Rights" (at least after your post) because your statement hit the bit. (Cavemen can read too.)

While it is not my right to smoke WHERE I want, in a Hospital...super-market..(but I remember when you could!)

You CAN smoke in a Masonic Temple. So I guess I know what to do in case this HORRENDOUS law is passed.

I'll see you at the poles SMOKERS REPRESENT!

[Oh_My_Goth]

This argument is pointless really. It's impossible to convince an addict that what they are doing is wrong. Ask any crack head, they'll tell you it has no negative effects and should be legal.

Since we're so on the subject of laws taking away freedoms, why have laws at all? Every single law on the book takes away god-given rights. I don't here you bitching about the ban on murder, but isn't that taking away my right to kill other people? Why is it illegal to rape 5 year-old boys? That's taking away my freedom to do just that!

It's very very clear. Smoking puts something in the air that was not there before, which I am now forced to make a choice to deal with it or go somewhere else. I'm not arguing the health issue, kill yourself slowly if you want, I don't give a shit, but your "right" to smoke does not inherently give you the "right" to do it to me.

Comparing cigarette smokers and crack heads?????

Really?????

Smoking laws compared to murder and child rape?????

Really?????Really?????

& no the "right" to smoke does not mean non-smokers should have to 'suffer'.....But smokers should have the right to smoking sections and smoking out doors.....

I had a lady just yesterday request that I move because I was smoking and she did not care for it.....She was kind and respectful, so I moved.....Problem solved.....

If non smokers don't like smoke.....Move.....Or ask the person smoking to move.....

It's that easy, kids.....We don't need to ban smoking in public settings, we need to compromise.....

I would bet that the people really pushing these laws are ex-smokers who can't go out in smoking establishments for fear they will start again.....

Those people, in my experience, are the biggest douche bags about smoking laws.....

[phee]

It's that easy, kids.....We don't need to ban smoking in public settings, we need to compromise.....

I would bet that the people really pushing these laws are ex-smokers who can't go out in smoking establishments for fear they will start again.....

Those people, in my experience, are the biggest douche bags about smoking laws.....

I agree with the comprimise idea...

But what you are saying does support the "addict" mind set that odims presented.

[odims_sphere]

Comparing cigarette smokers and crack heads?????

Really?????

Smoking laws compared to murder and child rape?????

Really?????Really?????

Yes. A thousand times yes. Read back I explained why.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I agree with the comprimise idea...

But what you are saying does support the "addict" mind set that odims presented.

again...sue

Phee...I been working on developing a lawsuit for several years to sue THE INTERNET for the spread of child pornography and the rising rate of rape crimes....it has merit...but I only wanna do it to prove on INSANE a lawsuit can get...no...I don't want to sue ONE internet company...I want to sue them ALL...the WHOLE thing...tons of red tape

again....if you can get 3-5 for spitting....I'm sure blowing un-healthy carcegens (sp?) right into one's face, after being asked to not smoke in the immediate area, can get some time in a pretty jumpsuit or pair of scrubs.

[phee]

again...sue

Phee...I been working on developing a lawsuit for several years to sue THE INTERNET for the spread of child pornography and the rising rate of rape crimes....it has merit...but I only wanna do it to prove on INSANE a lawsuit can get...no...I don't want to sue ONE internet company...I want to sue them ALL...the WHOLE thing...tons of red tape

again....if you can get 3-5 for spitting....I'm sure blowing un-healthy carcegens (sp?) right into one's face, after being asked to not smoke in the immediate area, can get some time in a pretty jumpsuit or pair of scrubs.

Are you opening the said can of worms comparing censorship to smoking?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Yes. A thousand times yes. Read back I explained why.

really?....you like sex, odims?

cuz if ya do...then I can INSTANTLY compare you to every rapists, pedophile, and sexual deviant, like the table guy, on the face of the earth.

under your own system that your presenting.