Egypt tips it hat

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Egypt: Iran Should Not Test West Over Nuclear Question

"Iran should not present on a silver platter the justifications and the pretexts for those who want to drag the region down a dangerous slope," he said.

He noted the case of Saddam Hussein, who didn't adequately refute claims over Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 that toppled him.

"Iran owes the international community transparency and flexibility," he said. "The Gulf is extremely worried and the Middle East is watching the standoff."

[Fin]

May these calmer voices in the Middle East prevail.

[Goth Brooks]

Egypt: Hey Iran, stop being doing something as idiotic as practicing your sovereign right to develop weapons within your own borders... bow down to the hypocritical bullies before they punch you in the nose and steal your lunch money.

[machine]

Egypt: Hey Iran, stop being doing something as idiotic as practicing your sovereign right to develop weapons within your own borders... bow down to the hypocritical bullies before they punch you in the nose and steal your lunch money.

So basically you support the terror supporting state of Iran's ambition of nuclear weapons? Do you also support their attacks on US troops on Iraq?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, have you ever read about the NPT? Perhaps you should read it, who signed it and what it stipulates.

http://disarmament.un.org/wmd/npt/

[phee]

Not going in to too much detail here...

But I would be very happy if Iran did not get nukes....

[Rev.Reverence]

Iran has refused to comply with repeated international demands to halt nuclear enrichment, a process that can be used to produce fuel for nuclear weapons or nuclear energy.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.. but from what I'm remembering is that this process gives both simultaniously, along with some really horrid & uncontrollable stuff as well.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Sorta. The process enriches Unranium... concentrates it really. The end result is substance that can either be used as a nuclear fuel in a reactor or as the fuel in a bomb. There are other processes that they could be using. Those processes create nuclear fuel but not of weapons grade. Iran has chosen to go the route that gives the option to create a bomb... even though they don't have any reactors that can us the fuel they are creating... Even though Russia is building reactors for them that won't use the fuel they are creating... Even though Russia has promised to provide the fuel for the reactors they are building.

but hey... their only looking to generate electricity.

[Goth Brooks]

So basically you support the terror supporting state of Iran's ambition of nuclear weapons? Do you also support their attacks on US troops on Iraq?

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I support a sovereign state's right to do as it pleases within it's own borders.

As for the NPT, I've yet to read any evidence that they've broken the treaty.

I'd also like to point out this stipulation as well:

Article VI of the treaty requires NPT parties to "pursue negotiations" on an end to the arms race, nuclear disarmament and total and complete towards disarmament.

Yet thousands of nuclear weapons remain, some on high alert, long after the end of the cold war.

[Fin]

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I support a sovereign state's right to do as it pleases within it's own borders.

Eh--Nazi Germany, 1939?

Bosnia 1995?

Sudan right now?

[Goth Brooks]

Eh--Nazi Germany, 1939?

Bosnia 1995?

Sudan right now?

Would you like to go further back? Expansionism is as human as procreation.

A sovereign nation has the right to do as it pleases within it's own borders. When/If they cross the border, that's different.

Besides, we're talking nuclear weapons development. Germany was barely started, and already in the middle of war. I don't know if Bosnia or Sudan had/have any nuclear programs going on.

[Fin]

Would you like to go further back? Expansionism is as human as procreation.

Eh--"Expansionism" & Genocide are entirely different entities.

A sovereign nation has the right to do as it pleases within it's own borders.

When this "right" threatens the existence of an entire race of people, I disagree.

Besides, we're talking nuclear weapons development. Germany was barely started, and already in the middle of war. I don't know if Bosnia or Sudan had/have any nuclear programs going on.

The government of Iran has made its intention of wiping Israel from the face of the Earth very clear.

[Goth Brooks]

When this "right" threatens the existence of an entire race of people, I disagree.

Are you referring to the human race, or Israel? China still has nukes, Pakistan has nukes, Russia has nukes. I find those three to be more of a threat than Iran or N Korea.

The government of Iran has made its intention of wiping Israel from the face of the Earth very clear.

You don't believe Israel itself has the power to decide that issue?

Israel, as a sovereign nation, has the right to decide what to do to the islamic nations threatening it.

As a citizen of this country, I state we have no say in the internal decisions of Iran.

Now, if as is "rumoured" or confirmed (read it both ways) that Iranian military are entering Iraq and attacking US forces.. that's completely different altogether. But on the subject of their nuclear developments, I'll maintain my opinion.

[Fin]

Are you referring to the human race, or Israel? China still has nukes, Pakistan has nukes, Russia has nukes. I find those three to be more of a threat than Iran or N Korea.

Agreed & good point. I never said otherwise.

You don't believe Israel itself has the power to decide that issue?

Israel, as a sovereign nation, has the right to decide what to do to the islamic nations threatening it.

Absolutely. However, if Israel were busy plotting the genocide of all arab people, that "power" would be revoked.

As a citizen of this country, I state we have no say in the internal decisions of Iran.

Unless it strongly suggests a path toward genocide, which Iran has continually alluded to time & again. In that case, we have say. And so goes my opinion.

[Goth Brooks]

Unless it strongly suggests a path toward genocide, which Iran has continually alluded to time & again. In that case, we have say. And so goes my opinion.

Your opinion differs from mine, therefore I dislike you and shall challenge you to fisticuffs when next we meet.

En guarde!

[Rev.Reverence]

Your opinion differs from mine, therefore I dislike you and shall challenge you to fisticuffs when next we meet.

En guarde!

That's how we got into this mess in the first place!

[Fin]

Your opinion differs from mine, therefore I dislike you and shall challenge you to fisticuffs when next we meet.

En guarde!

Have at you, blackguard!

*clink* *shing* *clank* <---swords crossing

[Raev]

Speaking in generalities, I can see multiple sides of what is in my opinion a complex issue.

As for the nuclear enrichment. I don't know anything about it other than what I read on cnn.com and what's in this thread - so I know my opinion is quite uneducated. I do feel though that if they are pursuing nuclear technologies for the purpose of providing a clean and reliable energy source for their populous, then good for them. Best of luck. Without evidence that they are looking to turn it into weapons, what justification is there?

As for expantionism, it happens and it always will. I have no moral objection to it.

The subject of genocide, I feel differently on but still somewhat am on the fence with.

When a country begins to commit genocide on a segment of it's populous, morally I feel that is wrong. The complicated part comes with...ok so it's wrong...but whose right is it to step in and do something about it?

As HUMANS, I feel it is our duty to look out for one another.

As COUNTRIES, what country as a whole has that duty?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Countries are made up of Humans. So, your query the second, is answered in your comment the first.

[Rev.Reverence]

Ya...ALL OF THEM...but you know.....most countries don't do chivalry...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I support a sovereign state's right to do as it pleases within it's own borders.

As for the NPT, I've yet to read any evidence that they've broken the treaty.

I'd also like to point out this stipulation as well:

Yet thousands of nuclear weapons remain, some on high alert, long after the end of the cold war.

If you read the whole thing, it explains why some countries are allowed to keep certain weapons. It nowhere demands everyone disarm immediately. It demands negotiations to disarmament. Which, has been going on for some time.

[Rev.Reverence]

If you read the whole thing, it explains why some countries are allowed to keep certain weapons. It nowhere demands everyone disarm immediately. It demands negotiations to disarmament. Which, has been going on for some time.

But really though, how far have we progressed?... how long has it been?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

At our peak, we had over 30,000 warheads... that was 1966. We currently have just over 10,000.

Russia's peek was in 1986, they had over 40,000. Russia now claims to have about 9,000. We can't forget though, that over half of the U.S.S.R's nukes were left behind when the U.S.S.R. broke up. A good portion of them.. something like 200 have never been accounted for.

The process is not fast. You can't just take them apart and use them to build something else. They are highly radioactive.. and they leak.

Hell, we are still trying to destroy the stock piles of chemical and biological agents we created back then. That is another slow and dangerous process.

[Raev]

Countries are made up of Humans. So, your query the second, is answered in your comment the first.

So the moral position of a human is the same as the moral position as a governing body?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You're getting warmer. Eventually you will realize that a government is sopposed to work for the people, not the other way around.