When two socialists

[taysteewonderbunny]

this is what comes out of it:

rick lemanski: It amazes me how Americans think we are always in the right due to television. Our country didnt fight too many pure hearted wholesome reasoning wars

calyctus: No country does. It is always about power. Because power lets us decide how resources are allocated.

rick lemanski: But we are the best country ever stolen

calyctus: Probably. There are lots of things I love about America. I know I am biased because it is all I have ever known, but there are some principles to which we at least profess to adhere that I can't help but believe are honest and noble enterprises.

calyctus: The extent to which we live up to those promises is another matter entirely. When I think of my duty to my country, I think that duty is to make us as honest and as close to our ideals as is practicable.

rick lemanski: I agree

rick lemanski: I do believe that the idea our forfathers had for this nation is now what Canada and France have evolved into though. We have lost a little of ourselves.

calyctus: You mean a stronger central government that has protections for its minorities and some socialized programs that create a buffer between the nation's populace and abject poverty and starvation? I agree.

rick lemanski: Exactly

calyctus: I don't know if I would like to do it precisely as France has done. I actually believe that a somewhat devolved bureaucracy that has considerably more autonomy on a local level (though with stronger regional and national oversight to prevent abuses) could work better than a cookie cutter one size fits all approach to serving the populace.

calyctus: But what I do love about France and Canada is that there are so many other political voices. While our bipartisan system means the parties are strong, I don't think that they allow parity of expression of our nation's people regarding their political interests.

calyctus: I want third, fourth and fifth parties.

calyctus: I want some parties to emerge while one's with outdated ideas become extinct.

rick lemanski: Sad thing is they're there but they dont get the funds to be heard

calyctus: I want more dialogue.

calyctus: Yeah, but more than that--even with money, they don't have a political infrastructure that will permit their success.

calyctus: The system is built for only two parties.

rick lemanski: I am personally a Socialist so it has always been hard for me to vote when it comes down to Republican or Democrat

calyctus: Also, and I don't know why this isn't an integral part of our public education system, there are three glaring omissions from our children's education: 1) CRITICAL THINKING, 2) Civic duty--what the responsibilities are of EVERY citizen and how a) local government works, b) even non-voting citizens can have influence in their communities, c) how to make public programs work for you, d) VOTING, e) DEMONSTRATION and appeals to elected officials, f) organizing for real solutions, g) everyone ought participate in whatever is his capacity. 3) GEOGRAPHY--and not just so Miss America grows up understanding that Africa is a continent and not a country, but so that all American children have a strong sense that OURS IS NOT THE ONLY CULTURE and have a real grasp of how different economics and [was at character limit and had to post mid-sentence]

calyctus: political systems affect their citizenry and the world at large.

calyctus: Damn, that was some rant.

rick lemanski: LOL but so dead on

calyctus: Well, I have to tell you, brother, it's been a blast preaching to the choir!

rick lemanski: I enjoyed it

calyctus: I'm almost tempted to try to cut and paste it into a DGN post.

rick lemanski: Oh that would be fantastic

calyctus: Where should I start? Cocoa, MacArthur or Americans and television?

rick lemanski: LOL all fine topics!

calyctus: No, seriously, I'm going to cut and paste it.

calyctus: Where do you want me to cut and paste from?

rick lemanski: Id say Americans and television.

calyctus: Got it!

rick lemanski: Sweet

[Msterbeau]

Heh...

[TitsMcGee]

I used to want to be Miss America...

[prick]

I loves me some ranting!

[Simon Bar Sinister]

Remember the New Year's scene in Boogie Nights? Julianne Moore's and Heather Graham's characters going on and on about how they're gonna get it all together in the coming year while doing line after line of blow?

That's what that reminded me of.

[Goth Brooks]

1. Founding fathers wanted as weak a central government as possible.

2. France has a horrible government, gained through horrible means... how many 'revolutions' did they go through?

fuck the french and anyone that idolizes their hypocritical arrogant asses.

[phee]

There are a lot of things that the founding fathers "wanted" that most of us would not find applicable for today.

[Rev.Reverence]

There are a lot of things that the founding fathers "wanted" that most of us would not find applicable for today.

.........like Hemp crops?

[phee]

Well I ment like the extermination of the Native Americans, owning Slaves, The fact that a central government would be very difficult because there was no instant communication back then....

[Destroit]

1. Founding fathers wanted as weak a central government as possible.

2. France has a horrible government, gained through horrible means... how many 'revolutions' did they go through?

fuck the french and anyone that idolizes their hypocritical arrogant asses.

Yeah...I bet we all can agree here for the most part that France has and have had the worst government and just all around country in the modern world for a few hundred years now . And I really don't look up to Canada much either.

I also thought that the Founding Fathers wanted as little government involvement in the new country as they could, hence the reason they wanted to break away from Britain in the first place (i.e. TAXES...which is what socialism is all about).

[TitsMcGee]

1. Founding fathers wanted as weak a central government as possible.

2. France has a horrible government, gained through horrible means... how many 'revolutions' did they go through?

fuck the french and anyone that idolizes their hypocritical arrogant asses.

Well since Marie and Louis got their heads cut off, the French have had 5 constitutions.

[Rev.Reverence]

1. Founding fathers wanted as weak a central government as possible.

2. France has a horrible government, gained through horrible means... how many 'revolutions' did they go through?

fuck the french and anyone that idolizes their hypocritical arrogant asses.

Are you saying fuck the very country that aided the U.S. in the Revolution?

[Oh_My_Goth]

1. Founding fathers wanted as weak a central government as possible.

2. France has a horrible government, gained through horrible means... how many 'revolutions' did they go through?

fuck the french and anyone that idolizes their hypocritical arrogant asses.

I find you disgustingly rude.....

WTF do you know about French people?????

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I find you disgustingly rude.....

WTF do you know about French people?????

History?

The fact that they have more rampant institutional racism than any othe country in the "west".

The fact that every major war for the last 100 years, including the one we are in now, can be traced back to French involvement?

[phee]

*hides in bunker*

[candyman]

History?

The fact that they have more rampant institutional racism than any othe country in the "west".

The fact that every major war for the last 100 years, including the one we are in now, can be traced back to French involvement?

At least we know that when it comes down to that final battle...that France can beat itself. They seem to be the only country that can give itself a solid thumping and still come away without learning a lesson.

Oh and because of the human element neither completely socialist nor completely conservative countries can exist. In the perfect world both of them would work equally well. Conservative countires are build off of the fact that they recognise hard work from no work at all and they give you what you deserve. Yeah, it leaves people in the dust and others cheat at it but...survival of the fittest. Socialism, well, when we try to make that work it always fails. There are no completely socialist countries around for a reason. First, only certain parts of the countries structure is socialism. Second, any country that turned completely socialist spiraled straight into the ground. It creates a void where there is no leader and then...drum roll...some asshole steps in and starts dominating!

[SaGa]

At least we know that when it comes down to that final battle...that France can beat itself. They seem to be the only country that can give itself a solid thumping and still come away without learning a lesson.

Oh and because of the human element neither completely socialist nor completely conservative countries can exist. In the perfect world both of them would work equally well. Conservative countires are build off of the fact that they recognise hard work from no work at all and they give you what you deserve. Yeah, it leaves people in the dust and others cheat at it but...survival of the fittest. Socialism, well, when we try to make that work it always fails. There are no completely socialist countries around for a reason. First, only certain parts of the countries structure is socialism. Second, any country that turned completely socialist spiraled straight into the ground. It creates a void where there is no leader and then...drum roll...some asshole steps in and starts dominating!

the human equation tends to fuck things up

of course i always wondered. if we didnt pay social security, or income tax, whould we have more money, or whould inflation compensate for the tax loss.

[candyman]

the human equation tends to fuck things up

of course i always wondered. if we didnt pay social security, or income tax, whould we have more money, or whould inflation compensate for the tax loss.

We would have more money. If they would have done something like...take the same amount of money out of our checks BUT put it in our own account that we can only open after a certain amount of time, we would probably be better off right now. I personally think that social security was a bad idea at least when it comes to keeping it for so long. It has been letting people take advantage of itself for way too long. Me, well I want to work hard, put aside some of that money, and make damn sure that I have a secure future. The fact is that if we don't act "selfish" and secure a future for ourselves, who the hell will help the people that either have no chance at all or that, sadly, don't want to try?

[SaGa]

We would have more money. If they would have done something like...take the same amount of money out of our checks BUT put it in our own account that we can only open after a certain amount of time, we would probably be better off right now. I personally think that social security was a bad idea at least when it comes to keeping it for so long. It has been letting people take advantage of itself for way too long. Me, well I want to work hard, put aside some of that money, and make damn sure that I have a secure future. The fact is that if we don't act "selfish" and secure a future for ourselves, who the hell will help the people that either have no chance at all or that, sadly, don't want to try?

im not a fan of how much social security has been abused. or how some people get it even if they are set for life without it. even without income tax it still comes out to be a big chunk, a chunk that could infact go to PAY for my own health insurence. or into a savings account, or where ever it needs to go.

which brings me to a flaw with all goverments, no matter the ammount, there will be a huge waste of the money, the money will not be managed to the best of its abilities and more likely a lot of it will be spent on military technology, technology that is overpriced, and well overdoing it. id hate to see the budgeting nightmare of the 2 wars, ooh wait the thought of budgeting a war, hahahaha, im sure the goverment whould pay a billion for a portable railgun if someone out there invented it

[taysteewonderbunny]

We would have more money. If they would have done something like...take the same amount of money out of our checks BUT put it in our own account that we can only open after a certain amount of time, we would probably be better off right now. I personally think that social security was a bad idea at least when it comes to keeping it for so long. It has been letting people take advantage of itself for way too long. Me, well I want to work hard, put aside some of that money, and make damn sure that I have a secure future. The fact is that if we don't act "selfish" and secure a future for ourselves, who the hell will help the people that either have no chance at all or that, sadly, don't want to try?

Social Security is not a retirement plan and was never meant to be. What it was supposed to do was offset some of the costs incurred to both the younger and older generations by allowing the elderly to remain retired (hence not flooding the workforce) and off of the brink of starvation. Obviously, it has only *just* done that, and not always most efficiently.

The other thing that Social Security does is provide money to persons who are either minors whose main fiscally supporting parent died and whom without government support would face undue hardship and to persons whose ability to work is greatly impeded by conditions mental or physical. Basically, Social Security was devised because children, the extremely aged, persons whose brain chemistry can be volatile, and persons whose physical limitations makes ordinary labor impossible or tortuous shouldn't have to beg for food and money, or suffer greatly trying to do labor for it. The compensation is not great, but it helps.

Social Security is NOT and IRA or 401(k). Yes, the amount that you *can* collect at retirement bears some relation to the amount of money you earned and/or paid into the system. This was devised as an incentive to keep the honest, hard-working, able-bodied populace hard at work--you get back some of what you put in, and you have a tad of a safety net if all goes to hell, or at least that's the way it's supposed to work. But you actually (though if you aren't really thinking about how we all live in this world together and how our lives are so closely contingent upon each other, you probably haven't noticed) are reaping more benefit from Social Security NOW than likely you will when you retire, even you never get back one red cent.

[freydis]

*hides in bunker*

*hands him riot gear*

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yes, it was.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html

The original Act provided only retirement benefits, and only to the worker.

The two major provisions relating to the elderly were Title I- Grants to States for Old-Age Assistance, which supported state welfare programs for the aged, and Title II-Federal Old-Age Benefits. It was Title II that was the new social insurance program we now think of as Social Security. In the original Act benefits were to be paid only to the primary worker when he/she retired at age 65. Benefits were to be based on payroll tax contributions that the worker made during his/her working life.

"We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age."--

President Roosevelt upon signing Social Security Act

[Constantin]

Are you saying fuck the very country that aided the U.S. in the Revolution?

and if he is so what we earned the right when we bailed them and the rest of the world out in ww2 we helped them and they hate us so fuck the french and there freedom fries lol fuck governments fuck rights fuck everything hell i will look in the mirror and tell myself fuck you just to complete the circle of fuck. oh also the french only helped because of the rule the enemy of my enemy is my friend and they didnt help to much they kindof came in around the last quarter of the game.

oh how i love history and how it was the only class i wasnt bored in well that and music

[Constantin]

did anyone know that social security was set up so that you collect at 65 but funny how the mortality rate in the world was around 45 to 55 nobody expected penicilin to be discovered a few years later and BAM people start living to there 80's man those democrats thought they were sneaky

[prick]

My My people can get so nasty with their opinions. I guess we would have been better off if the communists or Nazis had won. It would end my free thinking. Till then make sure you say nasty things to people who had an opinion other then yours.