The Necronomican

[Enochian_Deity]

Has anyone ever explored the ancient Sumerian religious practices with the ladder of lights? The paper back book may have been a joke. But Aliester Crowley gives reference to the Sumerian religious practice in his translated version of the Goetia. Using internet searches yields all the deities and entities of the book have statues or an ancient history of worship. Was all this created by H.P Lovecraft or is there some deep occult secrets in his work?

[bav]

Has anyone ever explored the ancient Sumerian religious practices with the ladder of lights?  The paper back book may have been a joke.  But Aliester Crowley gives reference to the Sumerian religious practice in his translated version of the Goetia.  Using internet searches yields all the deities and entities of the book have statues or an ancient history of worship.  Was all this created by H.P Lovecraft or is there some deep occult secrets in his work?

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I am a HUGE Lovecraft fan, and did an incredible amount of research on him and the Cthulhu Mythos many years ago as a result of my obsession with him and his influence on the horror genre of literature.

NOTE: It has been a long time since I did this research, so some of the dates may be off and I occasionally have a memory like a sieve. If Cthulhu3 is still on the boards, he may want to go through this and correct me where I err.

While some of the 'Elder Gods' of the mythos (Dagon springs immediately to mind) can be traced back to various incarnations in the ancient world religions (Canaanite, Hittite, Assyro-Babylonian as well as Sumerian), Lovecraft himself was not an occultist but merely a very well-versed mythologist and fiction writer. Because of him drawing inspiriation for the "Dark Powers that exist beyond our ken and comprehension" from these religions, it's not suprising that the names (or similar names) come up in the works of the established occultists such as Crowley whom, from what little I've read into, partially based their structures from the ancients.

As far as the Necronomicon goes, it trully is a complete work of fiction (as are the other texts referred to within the Mythos) that has some roots in discussions with his writing circle (Robert E. 'Two-Gun Bob' Howard [original Conan the Barbarian novels], Robert Bloch [Psycho], August Derelith [writer and founder of Arkham Press], and others). My feeling about the paperback that you refer to is that (in as I recall) it came out in 1980 at a time where:

A) Occultism/alternative religion (e.g Wicca, Norse mythology, Druidism, etc) had become more mainstream as an after-effect of the social changes of the late 60's/1970s.

and

B) The sudden boom in interest in Lovecraft after Derelith started republishing the Mythos through Arkham House in the mid 1960's. Incidentally enough, it wasn't until this time that Lovecraft started gaining serious recognition for being anything than a pulp writer...30 years after his death in 1937.

My suspicion is that the author "Simon" borrowed some of the Mythos (particularly the name of the book as well as the Lovecraftian interpretations of some of the deities of the ancient times) to cash in on the name recognition of the times.

I am not really into any form of occultism or magikal practice at all, just an amateur Lovecraft scholar...so you might want to look into doing more research on Sumerian and related religions to find what you are looking for. Some pages I found while preparing this might interest you:

Sumerian Mythology FAQ

Assyro-Babylonian Mythology FAQ

Canaanite/Ugaritic Mythology FAQ

Hittite/Hurrian Mythology REF

[The_Dark]

Sumer did indeed exist. Some consider it the oldest civilization though Jericho and Çatalhöyük are older.

Lovecraft based a few of his writings of the Sumerian religion, but not much. The necronomican for example is a real book. It's at the vatican. It's a list of the names of dead saints, nothing more.

Crowley on the other hand borrowed from all over the place. Sumerian, Kabalist and a few others.

[bav]

Sumer did indeed exist. Some consider it the oldest civilization though Jericho and Çatalhöyük are older.

Lovecraft based a few of his writings of the Sumerian religion, but not much. The necronomican for example is a real book. It's at the vatican. It's a list of the names of dead saints, nothing more.

Crowley on the other hand borrowed from all over the place. Sumerian, Kabalist and a few others.

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Hmmm....a book called the Necronomicon as a listing of dead saints? Can you provide some more information on this, TD? I'm now very curious about this, and (to paraphrase Starship Trooper: The Movie) I want to know more!

Some other references I've found on the Net:

About.com's Alternative Religion - Necronomicon entry

Crowley touching Lovecraft or conspiracy theory? You decide! - Necromomicon FAQ

[The_Dark]

Lemme see if I can find something. I read about it some years ago. It was really just a side note on another subject dealing with books in the Vatican Library.

[bav]

That would be very cool. I've done a bit of Google searching so far at work and haven't came up with anything yet, but work is also distracting from the search.

Thanks!

[Enochian_Deity]

Sumeria evolved into Babalon.

Tablets validating Sumeria truly existed

I am at work but have many pictures of dieties adorn and worshiped. The scientific classification of their origin is Sumeria.

I was basically curious to the ideas from members of this forum. I personally played the game Cthulu Mythos in my early 20’s. It was a very fascinating game, and the concept of sanity points made it a lot of fun. It in my opinion was far superior to the traditional dungeons and dragons.

I have all the works of H.P Lovecraft mostly in electronic media, and all of his video. It’s just so fascinating to me, how he managed to use so many entities that are found in literature. In the necronicon is the popular story of a savior ascending into the underworld. I believe INANA was her name. I often wonder if he were not part of the Golden Dawn or some magical order. There was no internet to search back them. How could one man accumulate so much information so fast?

Here is some text from a University that very closely compares to Simons story. It’s just amazing how there is so much and accredited material to correspond to his stories.

Text from Oxford University

Inanna off to the netherworld

PS. This is really an interesting topic

[The_Dark]

I'm not really sure what your asking.

[Enochian_Deity]

I'm not really sure what your asking.

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I am just curious to if any people have compared the works of the ficticional writer H.P Lovecraft with archeological finds. It is amazing how accurate some of his information is. I find it fascinating. How did he know? It's easy to find this stuff with the internet, but how did he do it. Why are many of the beings he described, atuall beings worshiped at the craddle of civilization?

Here is some more information on Sumeria. It has many links

Links validating the existance of Sumeria

[bav]

The Necronomicon FAQ I linked to earlier has an interesting theory about a connection between Crowley and Lovecraft through Lovecraft's wife. I don't know how I feel about it, especially since Crowley is such an infamous figure and it seems that people delight in tracing anything they can think of back to him. >shrug<

But as said before, Lovecraft was a mythologist. When he was growing up, he was "a sickly boy" (which is partially his aunt's fault who thrust hypchondira onto him) and stayed inside a lot and read through his grandfather's library. He was very into Poe and mythology, so it's not too much to infer that he studied Sumerian mythology as well as the more classical Greek and Roman.

[bav]

There was no internet to search back them. How could one man accumulate so much information so fast?

There was no Internet back then, but he had a pretty wide correspondance circle going for quite a while. Maybe not instantaneous results from it, but the dissemation of information and ideas did happen between him and his group of people >grin<

[The_Dark]

Why would anyone doubt Sumeria existed? You can still visit some of the sights of thier citys' A few of the Ziggarats still stand. There are Cuniform texts and such.

As for how Lovecraft knew all he did.. Librarys, Books and school. Some of it is just coincidence. Like Pluto, he wrote about a 9th planet before it was found. How did he know, because it was a common theroy that it existed. Wishfull thinking accoutns for most of the rest of it.

[Enochian_Deity]

There was no Internet back then, but he had a pretty wide correspondance circle going for quite a while.  Maybe not instantaneous results from it, but the dissemation of information and ideas did happen between him and his group of people >grin<

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Any idea who this group of people are???

[The_Dark]

http://www.chepachet.com/lovecraft.htm

read that.

[bav]

Members of his writing circle included August Derelith, Robert Bloch, Robert E. Howard. Will have to get back to you a little later about others in the writing circle when I don't have work in front of me that needs to get done today.

But Lovecraft was huge into correspondance and would write back and forth with many people outside of his writing circle.

You may want to look into "Selected Letters" series from Arkham House. It's a series of books reprinting some of his correspondance. Also check out "Lovecraft At Last" if you want an insight into Lovecraft's personality...it isn't going to have any answers on the Lovecraft-Sumerian connection that you're looking for, but is a very good read.

[Enochian_Deity]

The revelation to my topic.

The theory behind the climbing the ladder of lights is to occur in the body of light. The necronomicon gives reference to evoking a watcher. This was done when I as a teenager, and just experimenting. This being is suppose to watch and protect the body, as you visit various planes of existence. There was a grass required for the construction of an incense. I could find no reference to this erb existing. I substituted pine needles, and burned it in copper; sword and all requirements were used. Apparently nothing happened. That night when sleeping my bed shook, and I was awoken by an apparition. This figure appeared to illuminate and be in a humanoid structure. I was a teenager and it truly startled me.

After that I have been in a few roll over car accidents and emerged without a scratch. The cars were totally destroyed. One in particular was a glass top convertible. I was driving 120mph drunk as hell, and flipped it. I had no seat belt, and the car had no top. The inside lit up like fireworks; the metal sliding on the concrete. I had sustained no damage.

I have always wondered about the ritual. Granted I was a child and exploring, but many things have happened to me; and I have remained with no damage. Latter in life, I researched the many beings from that book. Most are valid to have been worshiped. But what about the watcher. I have found my home in the enochian system of magick. It also involves traveling in the body of light.

[pomba gira]

OK I am not gonna pretend to be either a Lovecraftian or occult scholar but... a couple things caught my eye here:

The necronomican for example is a real book. It's at the vatican. It's a list of the names of dead saints, nothing more.

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Well that makes sense- wouldn't "necronomicon" translate as something like "book/list of dead names" or " -names of the dead"?

As for how Lovecraft knew all he did.. Librarys, Books and school. Some of it is just coincidence. Like Pluto, he wrote about a 9th planet before it was found. How did he know, because it was a common theroy that it existed. Wishfull thinking accoutns for most of the rest of it.

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The internet may not have existed back then, but keep in mind life moved at a much slower pace... a well to do, educated person would have plenty of time to read, study & correspond with peers... & would also have the connections needed to access texts not available to the general public, i.e. "special collections" at libraries & such. You could say Lovecraft, like other scholarly types of the past (the VERY recent past, don't forget), created his own internet through the correspondence he maintained with a wide circle of acquaintances. It wasn't as fast as the electronic version, but there's no real reason it couldn't have been nearly as effective.

[The_Dark]

The literal translation is: Book of Laws of the Dead

[pomba gira]

The literal translation is: Book of Laws of the Dead

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well, I was kind'a close anyway!

[cptdeath]

It realy doesn't matter what was read or what is believed

what should be most important is were the power is from.for thats the trick what you derive from it is not important at all compared to the actual event of taking from it.your thoughts are like an anchor mine too.to solidify the existance of it in this world.

talk about personal experiences with the book. Not the ghost stories in it but if you can bear to have it squishing your conshince, let's talk about how it indirectly afected your life or the way you live. Lets hear about the scary dreams ,the demon in your dream that spoke in a different language to you all night, or what it"s like when you've died and returned in a terrable car accident just after thinking some of the unspoken words.Or lets talk about a 14 teen year old. how she suddenly decided to try to learn latin.She gets an old weird book.one day daddy did some blow and beat the piss out of her.so later she reads from the book that night, as reading is all she's allowd. the next morning she gets pulled out of class cause daddy died that night of heart failure.Years later no one could ever find that book in a weird language.

in short what happens is not allways destiny. head the warnings.

or don't. I allready feel I'll pay for this indiscreation of inpure thinking as far as the book goes. I'm a little superstitious

once marked it's difficult to get the neighbors dogs to quit barking when your near.

just letting you know :fear

[Enochian_Deity]

Well, there is a very big difference in the energy of Cthula, and what I attempted while a teenager. I have not read the book in over 2 decades. If my memory is correct there is a duality within the book, this duality is found in all religions. There were the Elder Gods~ theoretically good, and the Ancient Ones ~ their theoretical opposite. Personally the utilization of good and evil are words that I avoid when expressing myself. But this single thing done about 25 years was to protect my body from the Ancient Ones, robbers, and malicious people. The path is very similar to the Enochian system. It involved traveling to many spheres, and battling the negativity. A successful win would bring about some form of enlightenment. Please remember until the end, which no one can accurately predict; there should be a balance in magickal systems. Many have enormous veils to protect un-initiated people from experiencing things they are not prepared to deal with. There is what is called Sumerian blood rites. This is the negative stuff you may be thinking of. I know of people who practice this, but they are greatly avoided. I know nothing about their rituals work, just that they exist.

The Sumerian religion predates Babylon. One of the spheres to visit was the sphere of Inana. She became the Babylonian Deity Ishtar, and may have very well become the Roman and Greek Goddess Venus, and Aphrodite. (Research will yield she is both Venus and Aphrodite; but it’s something I have not personally validated)

Here is a link describing Inana

Inana of Sumeria and Istar of Babylon the same

There is no way that anyone can convince me it is a negative force. I don’t want to be bold, but many people who practice religions don’t realize that their supreme deity or object of worship, may have other names, and been worshiped by many previous civilizations. This type of study may be one of the distinguishing factors between high magick and low magic. This concept leads to the conclusion that even the supreme deity of all, may have more than one name.

Here is a little mythology link to get the concept out.

Ishtar Venus and Aphrotite may possibly be the same

The link gives the concept of Ishtar and Venus being the same. The earlier link gave the concept of the Sumerian Inana from the necronomicon and Ishtar . This may come somewhat shocking, but many pagans and witches may even adorn this deity, and not even know it’s origin as a Sumerian goddess, and part of the necronomicon practice.

My favorite quote from Crowley is not “Do what thou wilt” but “There is a spark of divine in all religions” having the knowledge to distinguish it is the present day problem with most practitioners. THis goes back to the duality

PS. I do not follow all the works of Crowley, but he has produced some remarkable documents; on both yoga and philosophy. Just a little something personal.

[phee]

Very interesting discussion... I am also a HUGE Lovecraft fan myself...

But as far as I know he based a lot of his stories on existing myth... He never claimed that any of these stories were true.

And I do believe in Sumeria

[The_Dark]

Honestly, who the hell doesn't beleive Sumeria existed?

[phee]

That guy over there...

[mpatheenexs]

I am always reading Zecharia Sitchin's books on Sumeria. How aliens seeded this planet for slave labor. But I wanna read Lovecraft and haven't yet.. I just found this site so hello, and yeah I wanna talk more later.