If My Brother Dies....

[The_Dark]

Children? Babies? Since when is 18 a child? Last I checked, an 18 year old aan is just that.. A man. Liberals are all about fighting for the rights of 18 year olds as adults right up till it's time for them to fight in a war.. then they suddenly become babies and children. Just so you know... the average age if a soldier in WW1 and WW2 was 18. The same with every other war.

You should actually go back a bit farther in time.. the last 20 years in the middle east is barely a foot note on the long history of war there. Infact.. there is about 3000 years of history there that is nothing but one war after another. It was all self contained, so to speak, until the advent of Islam. After that, it spread outward with them as they invaded other countrys and claimed all Holy sites as there own. I am not over stating that.. every Muslim Holy Site was the Holy site of some other religion before the conquests.

You should also check your facts on Islamic culture... According to Islam women are not possesion there just to please men. They are equals. It's the Arabic culture that treats women as possesions. Islamic culture and Arabic culture are not the same thing.

BTW, if your so damn smart.. you should have figured out that Paperhearts was talking to me. Your first clue might have been the fact that the post started out by addressing me specifically. Now, get over yourself and grow up.

[Paper Hearts]

Fear That New Iraqi Constitution Will Undermine Women’s Rights. Various drafts of the constitution contain half a dozen provisions that women's rights groups and other human rights groups have found worrisome. Of greatest concern to the women's groups, though, is an article that would guarantee the followers of any particular sect the freedom to abide, essentially, by their own family law, requiring women to be subject to the narrow religious rulings of whichever cleric happens to be in charge of her local sect. ''It's really a huge setback,'' said Shirouk al-Abayachi, project manager of the Iraqi Women's Network.. ''In a state of going forward,'' she said, referring to Iraq's budding democracy, ''we are going backward.'' [New York Times, 8/8/05]

Women's Groups Express Concern About Direction of New Constitution. Women's groups have expressed alarm at indications that the constitution's drafters intend to remove family law from the jurisdiction of civil courts and place it under the authority of religious courts that typically accord women fewer rights than men in matters such as marriage, inheritance and divorce. Officials say that issue hasn't been resolved. [Chicago Tribune, 7/28/05]

Exactly how is more rights than they ever had before worse than no rights at all?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Above your quote, Dark is what I am referring to. The quotes from the Tribune and the Times.

[Paper Hearts]

Children? Babies? Since when is 18 a child? Last I checked, an 18 year old aan is BTW, if your so damn smart.. you should have figured out that Paperhearts was talking to me. Your first clue might have been the fact that the post started out by addressing me specifically. Now, get over yourself and grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Dark.

Sorry if I'd caused any confusion.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Children? Babies? Since when is 18 a child? Last I checked, an 18 year old aan is just that.. A man. Liberals are all about fighting for the rights of 18 year olds as adults right up till it's time for them to fight in a war.. then they suddenly become babies and children. Just so you know... the average age if a soldier in WW1 and WW2 was 18. The same with every other war. 

You should actually go back a bit farther in time.. the last 20 years in the middle east is barely a foot note on the long history of war there. Infact.. there is about 3000 years of history there that is nothing but one war after another. It was all self contained, so to speak, until the advent of Islam. After that, it spread outward with them as they invaded other countrys and claimed all Holy sites as there own. I am not over stating that.. every Muslim Holy Site was the Holy site of some other religion before the conquests.

You should also check your facts on Islamic culture... According to Islam women are not possesion there just to please men. They are equals. It's the Arabic culture that treats women as possesions. Islamic culture and Arabic culture are not the same thing.

BTW, if your so damn smart.. you should have figured out that Paperhearts was talking to me. Your first clue might have been the fact that the post started out by addressing me specifically. Now, get over yourself and grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was a completely different time my friend. How many 18 year olds do you know personally that are married, capable of raising a family, financially stable, and financially secure today? Give me a break. Our society is not designed even close to the same way it was then, so no I am right in saying that an 18 year old is a child now even if a 16 year old was not a child then. Even the maturity level now is different.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Now, get over yourself and grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad you feel that you're so self righteous that you can tell me to get over myself and grow up because you don't agree with my viewpoints. I hope this helps you in life. I hardly think I'm the one that needs to get over myself after this statement.

When you're not so closed minded that you feel anything that opposes your opinion is clearly wrong because you must be right, I might actually care what you have to say. Apparently you're infected with the very sickness I was describing when I said it's not alright to impose our way of life on other cultures just because we feel WE'RE SO RIGHT. Whatever.

P.S. I made a mistake in quoting the wrong person when I meant to quote you. I'm sorry again that you're so perfect.

[The_Dark]

So, at what age do you consider someone an adult? Should we limit entry in the military to that age? Change the voting age and age of consent to that?

I'm sorry, but your argument is thin at best.

When you're not so closed minded that you feel anything that opposes your opinion is clearly wrong because you must be right, I might actually care what you have to say.

Thats the difference betwen you and I. I care what everyone thinks, even if I think they are wrong. Why, because I just might be wrong and I am not afraid to admit it. Your the only one that is telling everyone that they are wrong and that you are right. Your the only one claiming to know whats good for us, to the point you want to rewrite the constitution. Who the hell are you to re-write MY constitution? And before you waste your time trying to start another third party... you might want to look into the changes Congress has made to the system. In the last 75 years they have taken away the ability for anyone but the Rebulican or Democrats to get real fianance... You can start your party any time you want, but your never going to get the cash to actually have a chance at doing anything.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

So, at what age do you consider someone an adult? Should we limit entry in the military to that age? Change the voting age and age of consent to that?

I'm sorry, but your argument is thin at best.

Thats the difference betwen you and I. I care what everyone thinks, even if I think they are wrong. Why, because I just might be wrong and I am not afraid to admit it. Your the only one that is telling everyone that they are wrong and that you are right. Your the only one claiming to know whats good for us, to the point you want to rewrite the constitution. Who the hell are you to re-write MY constitution? And before you waste your time trying to start another third party... you might want to look into the changes Congress has made to the system. In the last 75 years they have taken away the ability for anyone but the Rebulican or Democrats to get real fianance... You can start your party any time you want, but your never going to get the cash to actually have a chance at doing anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry you lose again. I'm not the only one working on this project and I have many supporters. Apparently a bold statement is too much for your fragile ego to handle, so I'll sugarcoat the shit out of the rest of my posts just for you. I'd hate to think just because we have a disagreement that you think I'm the one being self righteous here.

*Patiently awaiting lemming collective. "OH A VIEWPOINT THAT OPPOSES OURS! SOMEONE WHO THINKS FOR HIMSELF WHO HASN'T DERIVED HIS ENTIRE MORAL MAKEUP, IDEALS, AND OPINIONS FROM THE TV." "WE MUST BEGIN PERSONAL ATTACKS NOW, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT YET BEEN ASSIMILATED, AND WE CANNOT STAND FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OUR PROGRAMMING*

When you know anything about tolerating or understanding other people's viewpoints even if you don't agree with them, maybe the words "GROW UP" will actually hold some meaning when they come from your mouths.

P.S. I have every right to work on changes that improve our way and quality of life. If you're happy with the way things are then you can cry later or enjoy it while it lasts. This is not only my right but my responsibility. Putting your faith in Congress is foolish. They can't even decide on gay marriage, which obviously is a right restriction.

[The_Dark]

Oh nice.. avoid the topic. Thats so openminded of you.

Look, your not going to re-write the constitution without a civil war. There is a process for making changes to it... but not for replacing it. Even to make changes.. it's a long process and involves not just a small group, but everyone in the USA.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Oh nice.. avoid the topic. Thats so openminded of you.

Look, your not going to re-write the constitution without a civil war. There is a process for making changes to it... but not for replacing it. Even to make changes.. it's a long process and involves not just a small group, but everyone in the USA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is exactly what petitioning is for. Yes there probably will be a civil war if it has enough supporters and Congress refuses to pass it. Sovereignty lies with the people though, and if in fact this did lead to civil war, congress could be arrested for treason.

I'm glad you assume I don't know how government works. It's really quite simple though. You get a person in office under a popular party affiliation who caters to the whims of said party until he has his seat in office. Once he's in he addresses the people with the plan. Etc, etc, etc. Believe it or not, there are legal ways to revise the system and make it better if you have initiative, are willing to do what it takes, and are willing to die for it. Would I die to make the world a better place for our future generations? You're damn right I would. At least I'd feel better that our species was preserved, happier, and looking forward to progress instead of waiting for change or extinction.

If you're really that concerned about what happens to your Constitution maybe you should come to a meeting where your voice will actually be heard.

[The_Dark]

I do.. I am listened to at the NRA meetings. I know why we have the second Amendment. I also know that if the ultra left wing liberals start a revalution, I will be fighting against them

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I do.. I am listened to at the NRA meetings. I know why we have the second Amendment. I also know that if the ultra left wing liberals start a revalution, I will be fighting against them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh. I've never been a big fan of the NRA personally.

[The_Dark]

Can you stop with the insults now? You seem to be the only one doing it.

[The_Dark]

And just so you know.. I dont watch TV, so you can get off that subject now.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Can you stop with the insults now? You seem to be the only one doing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude that was not an insult at all. I just said I've never been a big fan of the NRA. This was neither an insult nor was it a personal attack. I was just stating an opinion. Also, I've been off the TV topic. I don't watch TV myself unless I'm at my Mom's or a friend's house. I have cable but haven't even bothered hooking up a splitter to my TV for basic. If the TV is on, its a DVD. Cable is only running to the modem for now, but I'm thinking of hooking it back up for the History Channel, Discovery, TechTV, and a few others.

[Dark Angel]

No offense but how is your brother going to Iraq Bush's fault if the Army is volountary? I could see you making that point if there was a draft, but there isn't.

[The_Dark]

I was speaking of your insults from earlyer posts.

You don't have to be a fan of the NRA, but without them the ultra left wing tree hugers would have taken away our right to bear arms a long time ago. Without that.. How would you fight your revolution?

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

No offense but how is your brother going to Iraq Bush's fault if the Army is volountary?  I could see you making that point if there was a draft, but there isn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, thats the problem with the military. You go in thinking you're going to benefit from the programs they offer and defend your flag, and instead they send you to war for unjust causes. No one expects to be part of a live military exercise that is in no way, shape, or form for the greater good. I've always felt that a soldier's cause was to fight for God and country, but that's romantic patriotism rather than reality.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I was speaking of your insults from earlyer posts.

You don't have to be a fan of the NRA, but without them the ultra left wing tree hugers would have taken away our right to bear arms a long time ago. Without that.. How would you fight your revolution?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Use the military? I thought I mentioned earlier that this was going to be an inside job.

[Dark Angel]

Well, thats the problem with the military.  You go in thinking you're going to benefit from the programs they offer and defend your flag, and instead they send you to war for unjust causes.  No one expects to be part of a live military exercise that is in no way, shape, or form for the greater good.  I've always felt that a soldier's cause was to fight for God and country, but that's romantic patriotism rather than reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought something like 80% of the military voted to elect Bush in the last election, wouldn't that mean their idea of an unjust cause and yours be different? Just playing devils advocate. My Father served in Iraq in both Gulf wars and he sees the cause as just. You ARE explained you might have to go to war when you volounteer.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I realize him practically signing his life off to go die in a battle was his decision but still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Slightly different perspective to follow....

My brother got back a couple months ago from 1.5 years in Iraq... his unit saw a lot of combat but lost less soldiers to the war than they did in the previous year to drunk driving accidents while they were still in Texas.

if you are worried about your brother, you might want to send him some anti-suicide books... if i remember correctly, 3 times as many service men kill them selves every year than die becuase of enemy action.... while you are at it, buckle up because 28 times as many people are killed every year in the usa in car wrecks than have died in the entire Iraq war... and after 3 years of the Iraq war, the number of soldiers killed is still only 50% of the number killed in 9-11-01....

each year there are 100,000 plus (estimates on the very low end) people killed in hospitals due to "mistakes" (thats 166 times the number killed in iraq)

and finally, detroit has been averaging more people killed per year (murders) than the number of US soldiers being killed in Iraq.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I thought something like 80% of the military voted to elect Bush in the last election, wouldn't that mean their idea of an unjust cause and yours be different?  Just playing devils advocate.  My Father served in Iraq in both Gulf wars and he sees the cause as just.  You ARE explained you might have to go to war when you volounteer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not inclined to believe that 80% of the military voted for Bush just because the media says so. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not naive either.

Aside from that, I'm sure the military isn't privy to the "real" reasons why they're there. As I mentioned earlier, these are just kids in my opinion at least in maturity. They're not only easily influenced, but most of them are right out of high school or enlisted not long after. Most of the academics who have always considered their sources go on to college. These "kids" haven't really been offered an objective point of view. That just wouldn't be good for morale at all.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Slightly different perspective to follow....

My brother got back a couple months ago from 1.5 years in Iraq... his unit saw a lot of combat but lost less soldiers to the war than they did in the previous year to drunk driving accidents while they were still in Texas.

if you are worried about your brother, you might want to send him some anti-suicide books... if i remember correctly, 3 times as many service men kill them selves every year than die becuase of enemy action.... while you are at it, buckle up because 28 times as many people are killed every year in the usa in car wrecks than have died in the entire Iraq war... and after 3 years of the Iraq war, the number of soldiers killed is still only 50% of the number killed in 9-11-01....

each year there are 100,000 plus (estimates on the very low end) people killed in hospitals due to "mistakes" (thats 166 times the number killed in iraq)

and finally, detroit has been averaging more people killed per year (murders) than the number of US soldiers being killed in Iraq.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only problem I have with this, is despite my feelings regarding the war, strategic bombing could minimize U.S. casualties of war by as great as 100%, and at least 90%. This would not only be cost effective, but it would get everyone home safe and sound a lot sooner. There is no getting around civilian casualties in war, but if it's a choice between Iraqi civilians and U.S. soldiers, I vote for killing civilians. Murder is murder, and if you're willing to fight a war for money, than you should at least feel a greater sense of moral obligation to your own people.

A carefully planned incendiary bombing mission for example can easily level 16 square miles or more without worry of the contamination that nuclear war can cause. A few of these could easily end the war.

[The_Dark]

Wow... your not closed minded.. your insane.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Wow... your not closed minded.. your insane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly is insane about incendiary bombing? Do you honestly believe that this wouldn't save many more Iraqis from certain death? How much longer do you think we'll be there? Civilian or soldier they're all Iraqis and though killing either one is wrong, if you must do it at least do it in a way that will not only end the war, but won't kill more people by prolonging it. This war is insane and immoral, but Iraqi people with guns are still people like you or I. Though they march against us, this does not make them our enemy. They're not in our country attacking us, we're over there and they're defending their lives and their country as we would if they were over here. Our men don't even belong there, but they're there. With this being said, would you rather your family and friends be safe and come home to you, or would you rather they get shot down by people defending their country, because our offensive threat was weak?

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

.... Strategic bombing and Incendiary bombings only work on developed modern industrialized societies... not on trashed towns that are only good at producing more and more teenaged muslims. THere is nothing to burn in Iraq... they build their houses out of stone and dont own enough "crap" (like americans do) for the houses to burn up.... Firebombs dont work on stone rooves... only on shingles and wood.... Name one Strategic bombing campaign that won a war? Everyone you will think of did not win the war, it just made it harder for the enemy to move stuff around their country..... in every case the war continued and production actually increased. Im not going to start spouting out my credentials, but I can state with a fact that I have spent much more time and money studying this sort of stuff in College and Graduate School than you have (on the history channel)... so Im not going to argue with you, im just going to end this with a simple, "you are wrong" and need to read more or take a couple classes on the subject.

oh... and by the way... wasnt this thread supposed to be about her brother?