Jesus or me?

[Saephyr]

:tear :tear :tear

I have no issues with anyone being a Christian. Most of you know this.

My boyfriend is a Lutheran. He's naturally a huge hypocryte as well but nonetheless he loves his belief.

I'm a Witch. The night we met he knew this by my HUGE tattoo in the right arm. We started dating and fell in love. NOW he's worried about my salvation :blink ??? I talked to his Pastor and had him talk to my therapist, mind you I went to talk with Pastor 3 damn times, and he said we were ok.

NOW I gave him a 'break' no visits or going out for a while until he realises that I'm very much not ass pain like a lot of women can be. We laugh ALL the time, we're very sexually compatable, we love the same hobbies, all our friends like us as a couple... So whay AGAIN is Jesus, God & the Holy Ghost trying to take this and tear the shit apart?! I'm angry adn I think it's just over. I won't fight for my right as an American born woman

HELP GUYS!

[Rayne]

I once had a relationship with a Catholic. His entire family was hardcore Catholic.

....They disowned him over me.

I don't have any issues with people of other faith, beliefs, religion...whatever you want to call it...why in the world does everyone else have issues?

Grrrr....it bothers me I can't understand these things.

[Onyx]

It's not religion that's the problem, it's the misuse of religion. I see many people of any faith (all faiths included) violate every single principle of their faith because they don't really live by the spirit of their faith.

So many warped people out there - violence, war, so many awful things coming from fanatics. Suicide bombers, abortion clinic killings, NYC twin towers - you name it and it's been done in the name of "god".

An old pastor I adored once told me that the definition of a hypocrite is someone who would sacrifice people for principle, and he brought up the example of the woman who was being stoned and Jesus told them whoever is without sin to cast the first stone, and then started writing things the crowd had done in the dirt. They all scattered. Interesting that he didn't cast any either.

One day your honey may look back at his life and realize he had it backward. I'm not sure if things can really work out in a relationship until he sees what he is doing.

[The_Dark]

Honey... I think religion is being used as an excuse by a man that afraid. His pastor is cool with you and your beleifs... His actions, up until now, say that he is cool with you and your beleifs...

So, WTF is his real problem. Ask him. I think he is blaming his Faith for his own natural fear of commitment, but I have been wrong before.

[Ginevra]

Honestly, I've known folks like this. They can go into a relationship with "open eyes" but with the "hidden" belief that they might be able to change the person over time. He might have realised that your being a witch is not going to change. As my parents would say (which sort of quotes the Bible if I remember the phrase correctly), something about having an uneven yoke. In other words, according to at least Methodists, the spiritual burden should be even; you should be compatible in that you have the same beliefs.

I'm not taking his side nor yours. But I know too many people like this and I come from people like this. It could be the most perfect match made in the most perfect place with the most perfect person . . . . and if they aren't already your religion nor are willing to convert, then they are a lost cause. Move on and drive through. The only thing that can be done is to pray for your soul.

CLARIFICATION: These are NOT my beliefs but my observations growing up and from people I've known as an adult.

[Homicidalheathen]

Well you never know, it could still work out. My man finally gave up trying to convert me and came over to my side....but it took like 12 years. Not that you want to date that long....but, some people are worth it.

My man was a lutheran before he became a hindu now he is just pagan budhist I guess so you never know...

I would not change for anyone though, I know someone who did this and now she is completely miserable especially on Sundays when it is church and visit his Catholic family day. It seems her very soul is squashed, she is so not happy.

He met you and loved you my guess is nothing about you has changed so....

[Steven]

Good answers to this post......

Onyx is right - "religion" being mis-used is a core problem. Loved her example of the stoning of the woman - one of my favorites....

The Dark is right - your man has some deep fear based issues. But Committment may not be the core fear. Seems to me that his real fear is that he allowed himself to fall for and also become sexually intimate with someone not only outside of his faith - but also outside of the rules. And he fears God's judgement upon him - as a "beleiver" (if indeed he truly is) then he knows that ultimately the responsibility for this situation lies with him. Your man is afraid of God and his judgement.

Ginevra is right - you are what is biblically described as being "unequally yoked". To be unequally yoked as is given bibliocally is a warning - not as a Salvation or Damnation type of thing, but instead its a warning because it usually ends in heartache and misery. Its Gods way of saying "Dont do this - you'll hate it in the end".

To be yoked equally is to match strength for strength, experience for experience, character for character. If one of you lags behind, the other must literally drag him along, because your yoked or bound togethor. A yoke is a tool for work - and life and relationships take work - Your man knew this from Jump - and he did it anyway.

And Heathen is right - it might work out anyway. But here's my addition:

A) Spirituality - true sprituality (ie not a hobby but an identifying lifestyle) is very intimate. A good partner matches well in this department - if you can match well here then other forms of intimacy will be able to follow along much easier - because you truly click at the very core fo yoru beings...

B) Those who "convert" for someone else - or to seek approval - are not really converted. All they have done is a form of ritualism. Its a show, a sham, cant hold up under fire when tested. A true convert does so because he or she deeply desires this conversion and is seeking some form of reconcilliation with God - it should never (never) have anyting to do with a romantic partner or outside pressure, as that only leads to failure and resentment. It also doesent fool God and wastes everyones time.

C) I know you love your man and so I will be gentle and say only this:

he is not a big boy. And being a "Lutheran" means nothing. A true Christian has no tag - no sect - no identity other than that of Christ. Your man - does not yet understand this. And by taking you into his confidence, into his life, and ultimately into his bed without a real commitment (hence where youa re now) - he has placed you in a vulnerable position, and a wounded one. Its a selfish thing to do.

Steven

[Msterbeau]

Well spoken Steven....

[Rayne]

As always Steven, very eloquently spoken. :grin

[pharoh]

*sigh*'

Ok here we go again on the probably oldest argument ever made.

We all worship god in our own way. I myself believe and take part in lakota (native american) beliefs and rituals. If you take any religion. They all worship god, but do it in different ways. Like Steven said take Christianity as an example. How many denominations are there? And why do you think that there are so many different denominations? Because there beliefs or belief systems are different. Just because someone does something different from another group of ppl does not mean that they should be considered wrong or blasphemers or ignorant. Religion is just a formal word for spirituality in my opinion.

Anyone who believes that thier religion or beliefs is the only right path should go back and look at history. Lets start at the Crusades. How many ppl died because of others twisting and misinterpeting things being said. Countless lives lost over something that ppl couldn't see because they were so closed minded. Granted that was a extreme, but it happens today, just to a lesser extent.

And another fact I would like to point out......how many versions of the bible is there? Look at the King James Bible and all the other ones.....and why is there that many? Because it's all about interpatation. Once people wake up and see that we are all different and have different beliefs we as a whole will be better off.

[Crazed Vampyress]

I dont think there's anything I can say that hasnt already been said.

This would not be the first time Ive heard of religion used as the scapegoat when in truth it was someone unwilling or afraid of commitment.

This would not be the first time Ive encountered someone going into a relationship knowing the other party is not Christian (or any variation thereof) and then later decided they must 'save the soul' of the non-believer.

I think there have been some very good points made, and I wish the best for you.

[Marblez]

I will take the opposing side. Not against Saephyr, because I would hate to be in that situation and I am sure it sucks.

but...

Our beliefs and the strength of our beliefs can and do change over time. Mine has done quite a bit of waxing and waning in the recent years. Perhaps he went into the relationship thinking that it was acceptable, but has found that as his faith and love in his religious beliefs have grown, it is no longer possible for him to continue such an affair. Love or not, some things end up more difficult than you had anticipated.

Currently, I am of the expectation that I will only involve myself in a "serious" romantic relationship in someone who is christian or straight out indifferent (agnostic?). This way, I will not feel a contradiction between my views and that of my partner and will not feel as though I am having to choose between my faith and my relationship.

Unfortunately, this leaves quite a bit out of the dating pool, many very good people. But it is a choice I feel that I have to make for my own personal mental and spiritual well being.

[Medea]

Unfortunately Saephyr, I have gone through EXACTLY this. I am Wiccan, my ex is Lutheran. We loved each other very, very much, and were even on the path to marriage.

Unfortunately, I discovered that it was just too much to deal with, to think that I was with someone that absolutely believed that I was going to a place of pain and torture after I died.

[Saephyr]

:tear See dammit!

TWO AND A HALF FUCKING YEARS WASTED!!!

I met him thru DGN and City Club! How can you NOT know that a person has abstract personality traits if they go there and post here? :erm

I thought I was being overly sensitive but I'm not. This all sounds so much like bullshit I'm angry. :devil

I'm hurt :tear

I just want a huge piece of drywall and a baseball bat or my 9mm and anihilate something beyond it's present physical form. I've been 'mated' for 11 years almost and I keep getting this same kind of shit.

Can't handle my illness , can't handle my lifestyle, condem my religeon! I am the most honest female ANY man could date. I tell them all the issues up front and I mean ALL of them. I'm a woman and I expect to be treated as such even if I'm far from being 'typical'. I came from 2 amazing people and I expect to be in love with said same!

2 marriages...ump-teen damned assholes who were dating me and now this! :confused FUQ! :doh

Note to posters:

Thank you so much but please don't hold back if you have anything further since I'm about as blunt as you can get and especially right now.

Just wait...I'll get myself fixed up and be a hot DGN bitch all over again and then he'll be one sorry Monkey. BUT DAMN...why do I have to miss him.

[Draco1958]

Saephyr sweetie, I have nothing to add. Seems a lot of good insight has been given to you already. Just know that my best wishes for you are here and may this turn out for the best for you. My shoulder is always available for you if ever it is needed.

[pharoh]

:tear  See dammit!

TWO AND A HALF FUCKING YEARS WASTED!!!

I met him thru DGN and City Club! How can you NOT know that a person has abstract personality traits if they go there and post here?  :erm

I thought I was being overly sensitive but I'm not. This all sounds so much like bullshit I'm angry. :devil

I'm hurt  :tear

I just want a huge piece of drywall and a baseball bat or my 9mm and anihilate something beyond it's present physical form. I've been 'mated' for 11 years almost and I keep getting this same kind of shit.

Can't handle my illness , can't handle my lifestyle, condem my religeon! I am the most honest female ANY man could date. I tell them all the issues up front and I mean ALL of them.  I'm a woman and I expect to be treated as such even if I'm far from being 'typical'. I came from 2 amazing people and I expect to be in love with said same!

2 marriages...ump-teen damned assholes who were dating me and now this! :confused FUQ!  :doh

Note to posters:

Thank you so much but please don't hold back if you have anything further since I'm about as blunt as you can get and especially right now.

Just wait...I'll get myself fixed up and be a hot DGN bitch all over again and then he'll be one sorry Monkey. BUT DAMN...why do I have to miss him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My personal opinion is he sounds like an arrogant and ignorant fool who needs to open his eyes and realize the good thing in front of him

[Saephyr]

Awwwwwwwwwww my Pharoh sweetie!

You're still getting a birthday assault from the DGN gals dammit!

Thanks Draco.

[Steven]

*sigh*'

Ok here we go again on the probably oldest argument ever made.

We all worship god in our own way.  I myself believe and take part in lakota (native american) beliefs and rituals.  If you take any religion.  They all worship god, but do it in different ways.  Like Steven said take Christianity as an example.  How many denominations are there?  And why do you think that there are so many different denominations?  Because there beliefs or belief systems are different.  Just because someone does something different from another group of ppl does not mean that they should be considered wrong or blasphemers or ignorant.  Religion is just a formal word for spirituality in my opinion. 

Anyone who believes that thier religion or beliefs is the only right path should go back and look at history.  Lets start at the Crusades.  How many ppl died because of others twisting and misinterpeting things being said.  Countless lives lost over something that ppl couldn't see because they were so closed minded.  Granted that was a extreme, but it happens today, just to a lesser extent.

And another fact I would like to point out......how many versions of the bible is there?  Look at the King James  Bible and all the other ones.....and why is there that many?  Because it's all about interpatation.  Once people wake up and see that we are all different and have different beliefs we as a whole will be better off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

were using Christianity as the topic of discussion here though Bud - Chrisitanity as the division between these two. So - I speak in terms of relational Christianity only - as it has become the fulcrum in a pivitol relationship.

Steven

[Saephyr]

It's not religion that's the problem, it's the misuse of religion.  I see many people of any faith (all faiths included) violate every single principle of their faith because they don't really live by the spirit of their faith. 

One day your honey may look back at his life and realize he had it backward.  I'm not sure if things can really work out in a relationship until he sees what he is doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:tear Yeah...the with my luck it'll be too fkn late. :confused

[Saephyr]

CVamp- You said a mouthfull sweetie! =(

It's like my own Mother not accepting me for the same reason...she'd NEVER do that to me. Why would someone who claims to be in love? :doh

I dont think there's anything I can say that hasnt already been said.

This would not be the first time Ive heard of religion used as the scapegoat when in truth it was someone unwilling or afraid of commitment.

This would not be the first time Ive encountered someone going into a relationship knowing the other party is not Christian (or any variation thereof) and then later decided they must 'save the soul' of the non-believer.

I think there have been some very good points made, and I wish the best for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Scary Guy]

Religion is a very funny thing. I don't bash anyone's beliefs and on the flip side try to understand their point of view.

Imagine how he feels, the programming he's taken since he was a kid, instilled in him that his moral structure is based upon, not wanting to anger his god, versus you, who I'm pretty sure is the love of his life (at least currently) and he just wants to see you "saved" as he doesn't want anything bad to happen to you. Wait, thats stupid because I'm sure you've thought this over (and no this isn't sarcasim).

It's come down to two things. A. you wait for him to eventually (hopefully) come to his senses or B. you drop him as a lost cause and move on. Then next time for goddess sakes (haha I made a joke) get involved with someone from your own belief structure.

In any case you need to lay down an ultimatum to speed this process along. Option C is you actually "convert" to his religion and even if you don't believe in it, live the lie for him. But yeah very few can make that commitment for someone. Giving up core beliefs for the love of another just isn't right IMO.

Then again what do I know anyway.

[Homicidalheathen]

And this is why I love prostitutes they are smart! Waste two years on someone who doesn't really love you the way you are? Not to mention all the time, trouble....energy wasted.

Charge for every damn second you spend with someone, heh.

Just kidding. Maybe......

[Saephyr]

Religion is a very funny thing. I don't bash anyone's beliefs and on the flip side try to understand their point of view.

Well believe you me...I'm a Good Witch and always will be. I have been so in love with my dedication to Pagan life that I encompassed 5 other of the largest religeons within my tattoo to be sure that I express that. i practice what I preach so to speak. I have always been one to "walk a mile in my neighbor's moccasins" as I read on a plaque my whole childhood life.

If I had come from an angle of being a "my dog is bigger than your dog" nasty attitude then I can understand. I went and met his pastor 3 times to have him consult w/ me to comfort this man. I took him to a neutral therapist and asked her to break it down as a Christian and a professional. I have extended all kinds of books, explanations, and volunteered my private time to worship and let him watch. What else can I do?

Besides we met at City Club...I had my tattoo then..he saw and acknowledged it and we have battled with this since our 6th month together. being that i was in love I gave it MORE than effort. I love this guy. I've been divorced twice and I tell ya, it sucks to know that you love someone and you have to leave them to make THEIR life happier. =(

[Saephyr]

:whistling I would think that way if i wanted to waste my energy on being bitter sure. I just have WAY too many issues to bother :innocent I mean most would agree with me that I should concentrate on ME and my health issues and get myself straight

I miss the prick though :tear

And this is why I love prostitutes they are smart!  Waste two years on someone who doesn't really love you the way you are?  Not to mention all the time, trouble....energy wasted.

Charge for every damn second  you spend with someone, heh.

Just kidding.  Maybe......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Megalicious]

:tear  :tear  :tear

I have no issues with anyone being a Christian. Most of you know this.

My boyfriend is a Lutheran. He's naturally a huge hypocryte as well but nonetheless he loves his belief.

I'm a Witch. The night we met he knew this by my HUGE tattoo in the right arm. We started dating and fell in love. NOW he's worried about my salvation  :blink ??? I talked to his Pastor and had him talk to my therapist, mind you I went to talk with Pastor 3 damn times, and he said we were ok.

NOW I gave him a 'break' no visits or going out for a while until he realises that I'm very much not  ass pain like a lot of women can be. We laugh ALL the time, we're very sexually compatable, we love the same hobbies, all our friends like us as a couple... So whay AGAIN is Jesus, God & the Holy Ghost trying to take this and tear the shit apart?! I'm angry adn I think it's just over. I won't fight for my right as an American born woman

HELP GUYS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must realize that it is not Jesus ... you should'nt make it an issue that has to do with Jesus. It has to do with FAITH. Ah yes FAITH...... the blind acceptance of certain ideational content, acceptance induced by feeling in the asence of evidence or proof. I myself have been down your path ... only realizing that faith is not for me, because of the simple fact that FAITH IS NOT FACT. It is not a metaphyical given, it is man maded. At least Im glad recently that this HUGE FACT has come to LIGHT FOR ME . Of course to each their own. I have to agree with Marblez that our beliefes change through out life. Perhaps your love has come to a point where his FAITH is more important to him now. He must love you other wise he wouldnt want you to share and grow in that Faith with him. Its not the Jesus. God and The Holy Ghost who is trying to tear you apart. That is what you think, That is what you feel and that is what you fear. Sometimes life is just fucked up. Things happen .....but you must think about what is right for you and what will lead to your happiness. Hes faith is different then yours .. and though your faith values can allow you to love him and let him find his own path ... His can not do the same for you. He wants you to be saved because he cares for you. So you have to make a choice for yourself. Do not sacrifice yourself for another .... if you KNOW ... if IT IS sacrificing. You have to make that choice for yourself.. I wish you the best .. I know its not an easy thing to think about let alone come to a decicsion on.... But think about you, what will make you happy, and what is in your self interest.