Insensitivity

[Fierce Critter]

Jon called me a little while ago. He is doing a lot of door repairs around the campus of U of M these days. He was working on some double doors (go through one set then a breezeway then another set) when a couple girls walked through. As they were exiting the 2nd set of doors, Jon could hear the one saying to the other, "see - you need to get a college education because you don't want to end up doing something like THAT for a living."

OMFG. OMFG.

You don't know how much this pisses me off, because of how much it hurts Jon.

Jon came from a background of pretty typical poor America. Abusive father, unskilled mother, scraping to get by. He quit school early to work and support his family, then went back for his GED.

He has worked his way up in 7 years from $5.25/hr day labor to $16.00 an hour skilled trade. He's got health insurance, life insurance (first time for that), company vehicle, wears NICE clothes to work instead of grease-stained jeans, bonus incentives, etc. There are unsolicited, written compliments from customers on record for him due to his good service & willingness & ability to go "that extra mile" for a customer in need. He's doing better than he ever would have dreamed when sitting down cutting flash off plastic dollar store items in that factory 7 years ago.

He is doing well enough that I don't have to work outside of the house. That's pretty damned good.

Then some insensitive whore has to say something like that.

Hell - I understand the privilege, benefit & advantage a person gets from a college education. I might even discuss that with someone in my own effort to encourage them to get one if they can. I'm just a few credits short of my senior year of a 2ndary English Education degree from Wayne State myself. But I can't fathom being so insensitive as to say something like that within earshot of someone who you feel is in an inferior, disadvantaged position. How cold.

One of my sisters made the grave mistake of doing something similar to my father. She said something once, YEARS ago, in conversation with my father, to the effect that she thanks God she has a college education so she can know how to properly speak or something like that. My memory is sketchy but it was something to that effect. And my dad, who has, at best, a 9th grade education yet is about the smartest damned person I know, basically is being told by the daughter he raised that she is superior to him. I know he said something to her to enlighten her as to her mistake at that time, but my dad can tell the story better. Heh. He still tells it to this day. It impacted him that much.

Sigh. Thankfully, Jon's aware of how far he's come in a relatively short period of time, done well with what he had available to him. So this sort of thing may wound him for a little while. But I think he gets over it quicker these days. He's good at his job, it's a good job, and he takes pride in it.

I just love him so much, see how far he's come, that I want to maim people who are that thoughtless.

O.k. Got that off my back. Thanks for listening.

[Crazed Vampyress]

He has worked his way up in 7 years from $5.25/hr day labor to $16.00 an hour skilled trade. He's got health insurance, life insurance (first time for that), company vehicle, wears NICE clothes to work instead of grease-stained jeans, bonus incentives, etc. There are unsolicited, written compliments from customers on record for him due to his good service & willingness & ability to go "that extra mile" for a customer in need. He's doing better than he ever would have dreamed when sitting down cutting flash off plastic dollar store items in that factory 7 years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is nothing short of something to be proud of! there is a lot to be said for the working class, those who through *nothing* more than hard work, using their head and being determined work their way up from min wage to a respectable position.

screw those little snot-nosed slags!

[honeymustard02]

My parents came from little and have gotten pretty far in life. Neither of them have a college education.

Both of them make very good money as of right now.

I would rather work my ass off for what I have then to have it handed to me from a trust fund.

[gothicmom]

Then some insensitive whore has to say something like that.

Thats exactly what they are! They probably have lived off of Daddy and never HAD to work for anything.

[saechalyn]

Tell Jon to remember that a college degree is not a fast-track to a high paying job. Sure a lot of people do great things with their degree, but not everyone. Several people who went to school with me are unemployed, and off the top of my head, hrm let’s see, one is a waiter, one works at kinko’s, another at barnes & noble...

Now none of these jobs are anything to be ashamed of, but when you have student loan debt up to your eyeballs and 5 years after graduation you’re still in retail, it sucks. I know because that was me until 2 years ago. Hell, I got into an Ivy League graduate program (dropped out, too expensive) and I still don’t make $16 an hour.

[HipsterDufus]

That pisses me off. I grew up in a relatively affluent part of west Michigan and these types of insensitive pricks were all around me. My dad has always been a factory worker (recently got back into machining) and that type of attitude is pretty typical amongst people who've never gotten their hands dirty on the job. I worked at a paper mill the summer after graduating high school, working swing shifts and 6-7 days a week. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done. Fuck people who don't respect blue collar.

[Brenda Starrr]

God, that really pisses me off. How DARE they? These girls think that getting an education is all they need to succeed? It takes a LOT more than that. It takes drive, desire to do better, talent, and attitude. Some of the wealthiest people I know NEVER went to college! They were just naturally smart and knew how to make it work for them. I know people with degrees who can't even get a job in their chosen field! What a bunch of little bitches.

[Head Wreck]

i got accused of being posh today.

curse my knowlage of propper grammer and propper announciation on the telaphones.

just because you are good at reading, doesnt make you a good worker and an intelligent person. i found with the courses most of my friends did in collage and university were quite... academic to the point where subjects were covered in purest form. a few people who were supposedly better at maths than myself could not cope with the practicalities and having to combine 2 or three differant mathamatical techniques. and as to how they actually made anything...

little story a friends father told me once, he works at an aluminium processing place, they had an academic apprentice in once who had just come from a HND course of study. he was asked to fix one of the massive machines they have there, it was rattling. he came back 6 hrs later and signed the job off as done, andsure there was no rattle.

2 days later the machine failed. turns out the parts that shook had been wedged by a length of pipe to stop the rattle.

this cost the company a lot of money.

tbh, i have a lot of respect for people who know thier job, i dont criticise anyone for doing thier job (unless thier incompitent) after all, lets see those undergraduates try to install a door. and i have seen so many people supposedly better paid by me (Fugitsu "engineers") completely be lost on sight of a computer problem that has arisen (i mean simple stuff)

[Ginevra]

FC, this goes back to what we were talking about the other day about people working menial/manual/unskilled labour positions in that the job must be done. If you enjoy your job and you make a decent living doing it, then screw the rest of them.

I'm sorry Jon was disturbed by these two young ladies. Some people don't realise that jobs from the president of a company all the way down to the janitor is necessary in some capacity.

[Homicidalheathen]

I tried and tried to get my stepson to get a degree. He ended up in a blue collar field. It is just him. He was always fixing things...good with his hands but not authority.....

He makes damn good money too. Gets full benefits. Is doing better than we were at that age, much better.

So fuck what people think I don't care. Be proud of who you are and do the best you can, we are not all cut from the same mold.

You know, Garbage men and construction works do quite well......and they don't have degrees.

I just hate stuck up people who pass judgement and make rude comments without knowing the whole story.

[Shade Everdark]

I know people with degrees who can't even get a job in their chosen field!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, heh, some of them are on DGn....ahem. :blushing

Anyway, FC, anyone who thinks simply going to a school makes one better than someone else has just wasted several tens of thousands of dollars. You can laugh about that, the next time some stupid daddy's girl bimbo decides to take a cheap shot.

[Fierce Critter]

Thanks, all. That all makes me feel so much better - and if Jon reads this, I know it will be good for him, too.

I KNOW if you don't get a college education, you could "end up" doing "that" kind of job. What that girl was saying wasn't necessarily untrue.

It's just the lack of tact in how/where/within who's earshot she said it that makes her a ho and makes me pissed.

I've worked white collar, skilled, blue collar, technical, creative, legal, you name it over the past 20 years. I see the value in ALL of it. Every field. I know what I prefer doing, too.

One reason I am not planning to go back and finish my degree is because I am no longer interested in working in a field associated with my original curriculum. Someday, I might go back for something, dunno.

But the more I've been thrust into "the real world", the more I see it's not the degree that matters so much as the need for a given skill/talent. If Jon had been IT, there's no way he would have found a job as quick as he did when we needed to come back to Michigan. As it was, his very specific skills were exactly what was needed to get him a job within 7 days of having lost his old one. The pay may not be astronomical, but the job security is worth a million.

[Guest Game of Chance]

I don't have a degree and I'm in one of the highest-paying professions in the world.

[Steven]

She was a dumb Ass Critter.

A Dumb Ass with little life experience.

She'll only get as far as her dumb ass permits her.

Your old man sounds like a very good guy who is not afraid of hard work - in the end he'll get the last laugh. Besides - I respect any man who has the courage to bring home the bacon and let his wife handle their home affairs - that to me - is by far the best way to live.

Besides - a degree does not equate to success anymore these days.

I only have a high school education, and in general I'm on par or even more financially successful than my peer group/age group that do have degrees.

[holliwood66]

Heh, Ann Arbor/U of M is full of those snotty people. Without a doubt those little twits will get their come-uppance when they get into the real world and stop getting handouts from home. Jon is awesome so screw those two~ *sigh...this town is very trying sometimes*

[JaneDead]

I'm sorry Jon was disturbed by these two young ladies.  Some people don't realise that jobs from the president of a company all the way down to the janitor is necessary in some capacity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is exactly what i was going to say

i was actually thinking about it to myself the other day as i watched men/women doing construction. how much i would HATE to do that work. then i started thinking about other things i would HATE to do and how they are people out there that do it every day- maybe they don't enjoy it but at least they get the job done.

i could never imagine belittling a person for what they do as a job.

if you have a job, and you get paid, and you take care of yourself/your family there is nothing shameful or degrading about that.

it doesnt matter if these girls or any other people in this world try to put jon down for what he does. he won't see them again, he doesn't need to answer to them, they don't know a thing about jon or his life.

i say "consider the source" and i don't mean that in a judgemental way. i mean that as in it doesn't matter what a stranger says about you or what you are doing with your life. those random girls or any other random people are of no importance to jon's life.

maybe one day one of those girls will find themself doing something they would have never wanted to do for a living and they will then find out life is not as easy as they thought it was that day they decided to criticize someone for the work they saw them doing.

[n0Mad]

I have three college degrees and guess what? I'm working at Walgreens running the cash register and stocking shelves. I even took night shift because it pays $0.50 more an hour and I guarantee I'm making less than all of the tradesmen out there. Someday I'd like to go back and get a Masters, and possibly even a PhD. Of course, with all this education it gives me the potential to earn the big bucks, but there's no guarantee.

Many times I wish that I had learned a trade, because then I'd at least be making decent money earning an honest living while waiting for my big break in the business world. Yes, I honor and respect people that have gone through college and earned degrees because I know how hard it is. But I also honor and respect those that started in a trade right out of high school (or even earlier), worked their asses off, and hoping for that next promotion or raise. They work harder than I ever have and that makes them a better person than those Dumb Ass Critters are any day.

Jon - I have a college degree and guess what? I envy you. You're making good money doing something you're good at. You're earning your living, providing for a great gal, and making a life for yourself. Me? I'm still waiting for my life to start.

[Fierce Critter]

Jon read all the messages that were here as of a few hours ago. And he was definitely heartened by what people had to say. Thanks so much, everybody.

I feel a need to mention, too, that I didn't mean to actually come off as bragging when I mentioned Jon's current hourly rate. For some reason, I always seem to think most DGN'ers are actually better off financially than we are because so many of you are IT pros or in double-income households. I know there are some that have jobs that pay well more than Jon makes, but there are probably an equal - if not more - number of people making well below what he makes, or unemployed altogether.

I'm just so thankful - and unspeakably PROUD - of how far Jon has come that I'm almost in awe of him. And I have the stigma placed upon me by family about my not working outside of the home that makes me tend to babble about things most people prefer to keep private. Something I'm working on.

When Jon lost his job in NC, we got to work right away and I found out that the median entry pay for what Jon's doing now is around $18.00 an hour. So we know that he has nowhere to go but up. He's never been in a position to be able to compare what he does with the general workforce, so it's kinda empowering for us to know what he can and can't expect to make in the future in this field.

But even beyond his "day job", Jon is even more promising when it comes to the arts & crafts fields. He's an incredible wildlife sketch artist, has expanded that a little into color work, has made and sold beautiful rustic furniture, and recently has taken up carving - and what he's doing with that is just blowing away everybody who has seen it. Someday, I hope - dream - that Jon can make his living doing that and be free of everything electromechanical.

Though he really can do miracles with broken down lawn mowers, vacuums and other stuff like that.

I may have some college, may have an above-average IQ, may have had more exposure to things cultural & worldly than he. But when it comes to the things I just mentioned, he destroys me. If I didn't love him, I'd be jealous to the point of loathing him.

Ahh, I just love him too damned much for my own good. I gotta go kiss him. Bye.

[bean]

I went to college with some stupid people, so, fuck 'em. That little piece of paper doesn't mean too much, really. It took me 3 years to get a job in my field, and it will take me years to make any sort of decent money. I don't have health insurance either.

You can't let the "I'm better than everyone" crowd get you down. As long as you know you are doing the best that you can, that is all that matters. There are a lot of piece of shit PhD's running around, you know?

[DarkVampire]

Going to college doesn't mean jack shit. I have a bachelors in computer networking, what good is it? I sure the hell didn't see the jobs come pooring in when I finally got the damned thing. I work at a blue collar job that has nothing to do with computers. So know I have a useless piece of paper and a large loan to pay off.

Fuck those bitches that made that comment. They probably flip burgers for a living. Enjoy what you have and be lucky you have that job. Not much out there in the job market right now.

[Cemetarystarr]

THere is nothing wrong with so called "lower class" jobs.... I'm a hairdresser and lots of people think this means that i either A) dropped out of high school or B) have kids already..... neither is true.... I graduated with an Honor in Art and i don't have kids because i am not ready for kids and there for try to avoid the situation(if you know what i mean) I am a hairdresser because i LOVE doing hair and makeup...and i'm fukin awesome at it too... I actually had to fight with my mom about going to beauty school (she wanted me to go to college)

In fact at 22 i just made assistant/night manager at the salon that i work at, I am buying my own Trailer (its ancient but its mine!!!! :grin ) and i can afford the payments on a 2002 cavalier. I don't have much else right now, like groceries half the time, but i am HAPPY :woot: and i am pretty damn independant. We should all be more focussed on the quality of our lives rather than how high up the corporate flag pole we are. I had a aunt who worked for Toyota making major change and she finaly quit because the job sucked so bad she would come home and cry herself to sleep. SO JON>>>I SALUTE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cemetarystarr :clover

[kellygrrrrrl]

Wow. Some people I tell you. I came from the same sort of backround. I quit school to work. I only have a GED. I am quite successful. I am proud of where I am at. I worked for peanuts, and worked for an ASSHOLE for 5 years to get where I am at. How mean. How cruel. People really are losing touch.

[Msterbeau]

John Rules. That is all.

[Steven]

Jon read all the messages that were here as of a few hours ago. And he was definitely heartened by what people had to say. Thanks so much, everybody.

I feel a need to mention, too, that I didn't mean to actually come off as bragging when I mentioned Jon's current hourly rate. For some reason, I always seem to think most DGN'ers are actually better off financially than we are because so many of you are IT pros or in double-income households. I know there are some that have jobs that pay well more than Jon makes, but there are probably an equal - if not more - number of people making well below what he makes, or unemployed altogether.

I'm just so thankful - and unspeakably PROUD - of how far Jon has come that I'm almost in awe of him. And I have the stigma placed upon me by family about my not working outside of the home that makes me tend to babble about things most people prefer to keep private. Something I'm working on.

When Jon lost his job in NC, we got to work right away and I found out that the median entry pay for what Jon's doing now is around $18.00 an hour. So we know that he has nowhere to go but up. He's never been in a position to be able to compare what he does with the general workforce, so it's kinda empowering for us to know what he can and can't expect to make in the future in this field.

But even beyond his "day job", Jon is even more promising when it comes to the arts & crafts fields. He's an incredible wildlife sketch artist, has expanded that a little into color work, has made and sold beautiful rustic furniture, and recently has taken up carving - and what he's doing with that is just blowing away everybody who has seen it. Someday, I hope - dream - that Jon can make his living doing that and be free of everything electromechanical.

Though he really can do miracles with broken down lawn mowers, vacuums and other stuff like that.

I may have some college, may have an above-average IQ, may have had more exposure to things cultural & worldly than he. But when it comes to the things I just mentioned, he destroys me. If I didn't love him, I'd be jealous to the point of loathing him.

Ahh, I just love him too damned much for my own good. I gotta go kiss him. Bye.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your not bragging babe.

Simple fact is that it takes "X" amount of moola to make ti these days, and this is how we are forced to measure certain things. I think you two have a good thign going and have good values. I wish you continued success- I hope Jon makes even MORE money!

[DisturbedMania]

Ya know reading this makes me feel less bad about not finishing college. But, mostly because I was disappointed in myself for not having the stregnth to make it through all the problems at the time and all the stress of college.