Divorce Is Too Easy

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I wonder if so many couples would be in such a hurry to get married, if we decided as a nation to make it much more difficult to get a divorce?

[Hellion]

Off the topic, I wonder if so many unprepared couples would be in such a hurry to get married, if we decided as a nation to make it much more difficult to get a divorce?

Some people get married just for the benefits from their employer's.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I've long felt it should be a bit harder to get married (requiring some minimal education of what is expected), a bit harder to get a divorce, and what is expected of a marriage more clearly spelled out from a legal standpoint.

Maybe some sort of prenuptial agreement being automatic with all marriages. Many couples get married without even fully understanding what their spouse or the state expects from the marriage.

I would put the focus more on the getting married part rather than the divorce. Because even today many couples (especially very young ones) get married way to quickly without fully thinking it through. Better to solve it at the beginning than after its already done.

But, the ins and outs of what that would include legally would be a minefield. Not to say that just because something is difficult it shouldn't be attempted.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I've always found it kind of amusing that it's easier to obtain a marriage license than a driver's license personally.........

[Hellion]

We are No 3 for high divorce rates

http://www.aneki.com/divorce.html

does not surprise me at all.

[Steven]

I wonder if so many couples would be in such a hurry to get married, if we decided as a nation to make it much more difficult to get a divorce?

Careful Kevin, your getting dangerously close to my territory - Bigotville.

[Steven]

I've long felt it should be a bit harder to get married (requiring some minimal education of what is expected), a bit harder to get a divorce, and what is expected of a marriage more clearly spelled out from a legal standpoint.

Maybe some sort of prenuptial agreement being automatic with all marriages. Many couples get married without even fully understanding what their spouse or the state expects from the marriage.

I would put the focus more on the getting married part rather than the divorce. Because even today many couples (especially very young ones) get married way to quickly without fully thinking it through. Better to solve it at the beginning than after its already done.

But, the ins and outs of what that would include legally would be a minefield. Not to say that just because something is difficult it shouldn't be attempted.

now I have to warn you too Troy, because your talking about taking our american freedom away, you and Kevin are talking crazy talk here, very very dangerous stuff.....

[Fierce Critter]

I still don't know how in the world anyone can predetermine whether a couple is going into a marriage with any degree of potential success or failure.

One person's rulebook isn't going to necessarily apply to another.

As to divorce, I might feel differently. But how would (the collective) you suggest changing how it's done now?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

now I have to warn you too Troy, because your talking about taking our american freedom away, you and Kevin are talking crazy talk here, very very dangerous stuff.....

It would be "consensual" via my quasi-pre-nup thing i mentioned.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I still don't know how in the world anyone can predetermine whether a couple is going into a marriage with any degree of potential success or failure.

One person's rulebook isn't going to necessarily apply to another.

As to divorce, I might feel differently. But how would (the collective) you suggest changing how it's done now?

Plenty of studies to support certain factors that contribute to a positive / long marriage.

[hunhee]

Oh goodness.. well I guess if some of you have tried the marriage thing, and have seen it fail, you would know what goes into a marriage. I didn't capriciously get married, I was with the guy at least seven years, you would think that my marriage would have worked. There are many factors that occured just before getting married that made it hard for us to be a success. These factors also carried into the marriage, and new factors developed.

One of the major influences on the beginning of my marriage was when my brother committed suicide. My brother was my only link to my old life, this changed my entire outlook on life. I thought that his death was such a waste of good human potential, and for him to have done it to himself, well that's just insane. My brother committed suicide the day after I talked to him to tell him that I was getting married. The next day he was gone. I even talked about cancelling my marriage plans, I even discussed it with my ex, and he had agreed to do whatever it was I needed to do to get through this. I told my parents, and that's when they said, "we need some joy to come out of this tragedy". How can you turn this down? So, I did what I always do, and that's to please those around me. I do this to a fault, and I realize this now, and I'm working on changing it, but sometimes it's hard to deny some parts of yourself.

When we got married I was dealing with a huge amount of depression. I drew into myself, and was very hard to communicate to. My ex was similarly going though his own stuff at the time, so I felt like I had no one to talk to, my friends were good the first month or so, but afterwards they just moved on with thier own lives. My parents are just now starting to talk about it (it's been over four years), they haven't actually burried my brother, he's sitting in a desk in their office.

Okay I got a bit more personal than I had expected to, I thought about deleting this whole thing, but I'll just let it go.

Even when the two parties love eachother, sometimes love just isn't enough. Every situation is different. It's easy for those who've never been married to judge those who've been in failed ones. Some of us aren't marriage material, and this has nothing to do with committment issues, people just freak out and feel trapped sometimes. When you talk about getting married, you don't always think about what it takes to STAY married.

It's funny, I have friends that argue every day, and they're STILL together. My ex and I didn't really argue at all, and we failed.

I just thought I'd put my two cents in. :/

[bean]

I think couples should have some sort of counseling before they are married. Many people do no know how to effectively communicate with each other, which is the cause of a majority of problems, IMO. Counseling would help couples learn to communicate and work out any issues they have with themselves or each other.

I don't think it should be more difficult to get divorced. If that happened, I think the murder and/or suicide rates would go up. There are some situations that people should not be forced to suffer through any longer than they have to.

However, I do think that some couples give up too easy on their marriage, but some couples also hang on to a failed marriage way too long.

There are some couples that rush into marriage, get married too young (IMO), or get married for the wrong reasons, which will all cause problems down the road. Counseling could help these people realize they are making big mistakes.

[Fierce Critter]

Plenty of studies to support certain factors that contribute to a positive / long marriage.

I'll never accept "studies" as a barrier to denying anyone the right to marry.

Anyone who knew Jon and I at the start of our relationship were sure it was doomed to fail. His bitch of a twice-divorce mother had the balls to say to him - right in front of me - "you're making a big mistake."

Fuck you, as if you know what makes a good fucking marriage, you loser whore.

Ahem.

And yes, we've had some difficult periods. Some I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

But we come through it, and become stronger.

I'm sure one of those "factors" has something to do with communication.

Jon frankly couldn't communicate worth a fuck for the first couple years of our marriage. Disagreements would become arguments then attacks because he didn't understand how to keep it to facts and avoid calling me a bitch when he didn't understand where I was coming from.

But then one day you could practically see the lightbulb go on over his head. And I swear from that day communication has been great.

And even if all those "factors" are present at the start of a marriage, lots of shit can happen that can fuck shit up. A "perfect" marriage can go to shit because of some new influence.

Nobody can predict it for sure. I don't care what anyone says.

[creatureofthenyte]

I think this is one of those things that should not exist, divorce that is.

If you get married, that should be it, for all time.

If you can't handle that, then don't get married.

I will only get married once, if I EVER do.

[pharoh]

Short answer to the question.....I think it would make a small difference.

(Now I get to be a bigot lol)

I think if people done a few things to setup a foundation for marriage and also took into consideration what the other meanings behind a marriage is (not just the union between man and wife) and factered that into the decision that you would already have a solution to the proposed question.

To many people do get married for the wrong reasons, thats just the reality of it all. Whether it be financial gain, health bene's or whatever else may be the case it will always happen.

In my opinion.....I feel for a steady foundation before you even consider getting married you need more than just love. Honesty, open communication, trust, and boundries are just to name a few. And I know I am now in that dangerous territory that I am gonna get flamed for this, but if both partners are spiritual, then I feel that increases thier chances of success.

This is just my 2 cents.

[creatureofthenyte]

Short answer to the question.....I think it would make a small difference.

(Now I get to be a bigot lol)

I think if people done a few things to setup a foundation for marriage and also took into consideration what the other meanings behind a marriage is (not just the union between man and wife) and factered that into the decision that you would already have a solution to the proposed question.

To many people do get married for the wrong reasons, thats just the reality of it all. Whether it be financial gain, health bene's or whatever else may be the case it will always happen.

In my opinion.....I feel for a steady foundation before you even consider getting married you need more than just love. Honesty, open communication, trust, and boundries are just to name a few. And I know I am now in that dangerous territory that I am gonna get flamed for this, but if both partners are spiritual, then I feel that increases thier chances of success.

This is just my 2 cents.

The marriage will only succeed if the two partners make it succeed. They both have to be equally committed to making it work, otherwise, its gonna fail. Maybe being spiritual Could help. It could make them more patient and receptive to each others' needs and concerns, thats possible. But who really knows for sure ?

[know_buddy_kares]

now I have to warn you too Troy, because your talking about taking our american freedom away, you and Kevin are talking crazy talk here, very very dangerous stuff.....

I really gotta agree with you here. They're already trying to dictate about what sexual orientation we should be, they have laws saying that if you speak aganst the iraq war that they can freeze your bank accounts, and they can now spy on you and listen in without any form of approval... they make drug laws, and so many restrictions and limitations on so many things, marrige is the last thing we have the freedom to do with ease. So what if a bunch of fuckin idiots who only think they know what they're doing wanna get married, let them make themselves miserable and fuck their credit up with a divorce. At least it'll be a good red flag waiving on their heads screaming, "HEY I'M A FUCKIN IDIOT WHEN IT COMES TO KNOWING WHAT I WANT OUT OF A RELATIONSHIP, DON'T DATE ME!!"

And since I'm looking for someone who's got it together and knows what they want, a clear sign would be so easy as to know wich idiots to ignore. Wich is why I avoid now at all costs, any girl with a ring on her left ring finger.

[pharoh]

The marriage will only succeed if the two partners make it succeed. They both have to be equally committed to making it work, otherwise, its gonna fail. Maybe being spiritual Could help. It could make them more patient and receptive to each others' needs and concerns, thats possible. But who really knows for sure ?

Well I guess I should of said commited as well, but I kinda thought that was a gimme lol.

I have seen alot of marriage's fail for many different reasons, but I feel if a couple is more spiritual they will look deeper into the word itself and recognize it for more than just a union of man and wife. If the marriages I have witnessed fall apart had both parties more on the spiritual side than the "logical" side of things they wouldn't have given up so easily....yes I know that there is always the X factor that can always be in the mix as well. But I also think that people are just to easy to give up rather than to work out thier differences. It's much easier for someone to sign a piece of paper than to face thier faults as individuals.

And if both parties are not commited in the first place than they have no business being together.

[BrassFusion]

I still fail to understand why most of y'all think it would be more of a boon to society to dictate other people's lifestyles when they have no effect on your own. Exactly WHO'S going to be put in charge to decide how much counseling couples need, which professional they should speak to, which responsibilities and limitations to dictate in the prenup, I mean, WHAT THE FUCK red tape now!

if it's for your own benefit, as in, "i want tougher restrictions on marriage and divorce for EVERYBODY so i personally don't get taken advantage of in the future," then... um... marry someone who agrees with you and write up a very exacting prenup.

[know_buddy_kares]

I still fail to understand why most of y'all think it would be more of a boon to society to dictate other people's lifestyles when they have no effect on your own. Exactly WHO'S going to be put in charge to decide how much counseling couples need, which professional they should speak to, which responsibilities and limitations to dictate in the prenup, I mean, WHAT THE FUCK red tape now!

if it's for your own benefit, as in, "i want tougher restrictions on marriage and divorce for EVERYBODY so i personally don't get taken advantage of in the future," then... um... marry someone who agrees with you and write up a very exacting prenup.

you know, i've been screaming this for years now...

why the fuck do people care if 2 guys or 2 girls wanna get married.. it's not like they're pounding down YOUR door saying that you have to marry someone of the same sex. It's just the fact that people cannot handle the idea that they can't tell other people how to live their lives. Everyone wants to tell eveyrone else how to live... it's an ego thing, and most people have fuckin sickeningly huge egos in my opinion.

[BrassFusion]

Short answer to the question.....I think it would make a small difference.

(Now I get to be a bigot lol)

I think if people done a few things to setup a foundation for marriage and also took into consideration what the other meanings behind a marriage is (not just the union between man and wife) and factered that into the decision that you would already have a solution to the proposed question.

To many people do get married for the wrong reasons, thats just the reality of it all. Whether it be financial gain, health bene's or whatever else may be the case it will always happen.

In my opinion.....I feel for a steady foundation before you even consider getting married you need more than just love. Honesty, open communication, trust, and boundries are just to name a few. And I know I am now in that dangerous territory that I am gonna get flamed for this, but if both partners are spiritual, then I feel that increases thier chances of success.

This is just my 2 cents.

The chance of a successful relationship is probably also increased if both partners are non-spiritual.

Hmm... would this have anything to do with shared values as a whole? Hmm...

[pharoh]

I still fail to understand why most of y'all think it would be more of a boon to society to dictate other people's lifestyles when they have no effect on your own. Exactly WHO'S going to be put in charge to decide how much counseling couples need, which professional they should speak to, which responsibilities and limitations to dictate in the prenup, I mean, WHAT THE FUCK red tape now!

if it's for your own benefit, as in, "i want tougher restrictions on marriage and divorce for EVERYBODY so i personally don't get taken advantage of in the future," then... um... marry someone who agrees with you and write up a very exacting prenup.

Marriage should be more than just a contract Erin...

[know_buddy_kares]

no, to put it coldy, chances are only increased so long as the girl gets the guys money, and the guy gets the girls vagoo. this barter system must stay intact or all hell will break loose.

[pharoh]

The chance of a successful relationship is probably also increased if both partners are non-spiritual.

Hmm... would this have anything to do with shared values as a whole? Hmm...

Shouldn't a couple share values?

Why don't you define marriage to me....but don't give me any bullshit dictionary text......give me your opinion.

[BrassFusion]

Marriage should be more than just a contract Erin...

If YOU need more than a contract out of your marriage, by all means, feel free.

Shouldn't a couple share values?

Why don't you define marriage to me....but don't give me any bullshit dictionary text......give me your opinion.

That's exactly what I said. Two people of the same faith share values just as two agnostics do.

As for my definition of marriage? An inherently tumultuous institution that people only want to improve for everybody by pigeonholing who should do it and who should not and for how long. It SHOULD be about love, and there are a lot more brands of love than the ones any single person is comfortable with.