Just Curious

[Fierce Critter]

How is that any worse than voting for her because she is a woman?

I never said that was a good reason to vote for her, either.

However, I will say this much. Women and men are wired differently. If I don't care for either candidate, or I don't think one is any better than the other, and my dream of a "none of the above" choice on a ballot is still not realized, I would vote for a woman based on my desire to see if she would do things differently. I like change, and I like to see new things in action.

If my vote puts a woman into office, and I like what she does, I'll vote for her again. If she sucks just as bad as a man, she'll just as easily lose my vote.

I sure as shit didn't vote for Granholm because she was a woman. I voted for her because I didn't trust DeVos, or see him as any better a candidate. Her sex never was a consideration for me.

Comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges, if I was really honestly versed and read-up on 3 candidates for the Democratic nomination, and one was a woman, another a white man, the other a black man, and the woman's stances & track record sucked, and the white man's stances & track record sucked less, and the black man's stances were on an even par with the white man's - I would be choosing between the men and not the woman.

[Scary Guy]

Was it in this thread or another that I posted this, http://www.tenant.net/tengroup/Metcounc/Jan02/giuliani.html

Still looking up that link I had to why Ron Paul is awesome.

Also "I think we can all agree that Washington is like the inflamed colon after 20 years without even a flake of Raisin Bran. What it needs is a Ron Paul enema — lets let it run through the system, clean everything out" made me LOL

[Scales]

I watched the CNN/Youtube Republican debate and I was pretty pleased with Ron Paul; I wasn't going to vote before he came into the picture as a candidate. He's modest and smart as hell, which explains why he's so old, or the other way around.. The only problem Ron Paul has imo, is that other candidates and their supporters are trying to say it's unrealistic especially with pulling out of the war, but those kind of words and actions are going to hurt a lot more people than getting all the troops out and focusing on fixing the mess.

It all comes down to whether people want to continue gambling on another country while ours collapses and leans towards a continental union.. if that shit happens, I'm becoming a pirate.

[Shade Everdark]

Everyone is of course entitled to his or her opinion, but I fail to understand where all the Ron Paul support comes from. Some of his ideas are downright scary, to me at least. His advocacy of overturning Roe v. Wade does not sit well with me at all, for one, but I suspect his fellow Republicans are probably largely in agreement with him on that. His inexplicable opposition to birthright citizenship smacks of under-the-radar racism, or at least, fear of the brown people, oh noes. I also don't really think our government can survive without the income tax. People can bitch and moan all they like about taxes, but the fact is that they bitch because they don't like how they are being spent, not because they are being collected at all. No, I'll be staying far away from Ron Paul, I think.

For that matter, I'll be staying far away from the entire Republican party this election cycle. After eight years of Republican misrule, even the uninspired Democratic candidates start to look halfway appealing.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think I understand his position on Roe vs. Wade. It's not so much that he wants to make abortion illegal, he wants to do it in a better way. Roe vs. Wade was a backdoor to making it legal. On that point alone I agree withhim but I could never support over turning Roe vs. Wade unless we had a better, more constitutionally sound set of laws and regulations ready to replace it. I mean, from a legal stand point, Roe vs. Wade does not make abortion legal, it makes it illegal to force someone to say if they had one or not.

[ttogreh]

I fear the only way to truly solve the abortion issue would be to return the issue to the many states. In the red states, it will become illegal, and in the blue, it will stay legal. In the next few years as crime rates increase, young women die in back alleys, illegitimate children and abandoned children pile up, (hopefully many will be adopted by blue state parents), and other horrors beset the red states, there will FINALLY come an age of detente on this most divisive of issues.

There is NO perfect solution to the abortion issue. The best we can hope for is a strategy that almost no one is happy with, at all.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

We almost agree on that. It should be an issue the states govern. i don;t think any of the so called redstates would make it completly illegal. I think they would have a few laws restricting it that owuld get tweaked over the course of time. Just as the so called blue states would not complelty lift all restrcitions on it.

There are no Red states or Blue states. There are states, full of people with just as many opinions. I do feel that, as a people, we can find a balance that makes sense to the vast majority of people. We just have to stop thinking of each other as "Them" and go back to thinking in terms of "Us"

[machine]

i dont think rudy shouldbe a top choice

Libertarianism policy is like that of a republican with the no touch on the economy standpoint it could really hurt us

and somepeople like it or not really do depend on that welfare and pretty soon

more people are going to need to be on it with the rate of forclosures and jobs lost due to lack of a housing market.. which i think will spark a depression its not in the best interest to vote for a party thats going to dismantle social services in a time where we are going to need those services the most

Kucinich's platform includes

Creating a single-payer system of universal health care that provides full coverage for all Americans by passage of the United States National Health Insurance Act. --- BAD

The immediate, phased withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq; replacing them with an international security force. --BAD

Guaranteed quality education for all; including free pre-kindergarten and college for all who want it. -- BAD

Immediate withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) and North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). BAD

Repealing the USA PATRIOT Act. ---BAD

Fostering a world of international cooperation.

Abolishing the death penalty. -- BAD

Environmental renewal and clean energy.

Preventing the privatization of social security.

Providing full social security benefits at age 65. -- BAD

Creating a cabinet-level "Department of Peace" -- Waste taxpayers money

Ratifying the ABM Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol.

Introducing reforms to bring about instant-runoff voting.

Protecting a woman's right to choose while decreasing the number of abortions performed in the U.S. --Blowing smoke

Ending the War on Drugs.

Legalizing same-sex marriage. -- BAD

Creating a balance between workers and corporations.

Ending the H-1B and L-1 visa Programs

Restoring rural communities and family farms.

Strengthening gun control. - BAD

The bad outweighs the good with Kucinich.

And unfortunatly, Paul wants to bring home the troops immediately, other than that I like his policys...

Removing the troops now would be an absolute DISASTER. Since the surge started, things have actually been GETTING DONE and ACTUAL, VISIBLE progress has been made. Surrendering now would be terrible.

BUT, when it comes time to vote, I think it will be either Giuliani or Huckabee vs. Clinton

And thankfully Democrats are fucking mainstream idiots... they put Clinton there instead of Obama because she is a female, and it's like handing the Republicans the white house once more.

[Destroit]

Removing the troops now would be an absolute DISASTER. Since the surge started, things have actually been GETTING DONE and ACTUAL, VISIBLE progress has been made. Surrendering now would be terrible.

Pretty much the one thing I'm keeping in mind this year. As unpopular as opinion as it may be, I stand by my troops actually staying to get the job done and for all of those who lost their lives fighting for our freedom and the freedom of others, I'd like to have them know it wasn't in vain. People think we've done nothing over there, and it's because our generation and well, our parents generation (i.e. the hippy crowd) get huffy and puffy if magic doesn't happen overnight. It's not Final Fantasy X people, you can't beat it in under 60 hours, I'm sorry but that's just not the way the world spins on its axis. We've been bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, got a horrible person like Saddam out of power (and this world to boot), and have begun to enrich the lives of so many people over there whom we'll never even know but won't soon forget what we've done.

*waits for the flameage*

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

[nilhil_glory]

*waits for the flameage*

actually im not gonna stomp on anyones beleifs for anything were all very opinionated people

and i know we all have different values

reaserch the candidates who fall in line closest with YOUR views

and support them

we dont want to be monkeys ^^

or do we mwahahaha

[creatureofthenyte]

I don't know who I'm gonna vote for.

From what Ive seen/heard so far though, it seems to me that Hillary's unofficial campaign slogan should be: "Vote for me, I'm a girl!"

[machine]

I don't know who I'm gonna vote for.

From what Ive seen/heard so far though, it seems to me that Hillary's unofficial campaign slogan should be: "Vote for me, I'm a girl!"

Considering she is currently only playing to the Democratic base, this strategy should work for her, seeing as how dull, simple, and commercial the average Democrat is. They will eat this stuff up! Just so they can tell their children how they helped elect the first female president.... oh they will be telling this story either in a Russian prison camp or on a tape sent back from Durkadurkastan just before they were beheaded, simply for being an American.

[creatureofthenyte]

Considering she is currently only playing to the Democratic base, this strategy should work for her, seeing as how dull, simple, and commercial the average Democrat is. They will eat this stuff up! Just so they can tell their children how they helped elect the first female president.... oh they will be telling this story either in a Russian prison camp or on a tape sent back from Durkadurkastan just before they were beheaded, simply for being an American.

Well I'm gonna have to really hear what all the canidates views/positions are, and then make my choice based on that information. Ive never been fond of Republicans. I think Republicans want to spend this country into the pooper, and give us all tax breaks to make it look like their doing a good job for us. However on the other hand, Democrats; I don't think they could lead us out of a wet paper bag. Why not ? well they can't seem to decide what they stand for. Gotta take off the flip flop(s) and put on some shoes and stand for something. What I have been hearing about Hillary's ideas, I just don't like it. Vote for me, cuz Im a girl. I think canidates shouldnt have to raise a bajillion dollars just to run for office in this country.

[machine]

Well I'm gonna have to really hear what all the canidates views/positions are, and then make my choice based on that information. Ive never been fond of Republicans. I think Republicans want to spend this country into the pooper, and give us all tax breaks to make it look like their doing a good job for us. However on the other hand, Democrats; I don't think they could lead us out of a wet paper bag. Why not ? well they can't seem to decide what they stand for. Gotta take off the flip flop(s) and put on some shoes and stand for something. What I have been hearing about Hillary's ideas, I just don't like it. Vote for me, cuz Im a girl. I think canidates shouldnt have to raise a bajillion dollars just to run for office in this country.

See thats the thing. They flip flop because they are constantly trying to appear on the side on whatever is popular. When the Iraq war was what the majority of American's wanted, Clinton and many other top-tier Dems were right there along with the idea... long before the "I was for it before I was against it." genius of Kerry and co.

Republicans a.k.a CONSERVATIVES really don't spend all that much... but with today's world as it is, global terror, free market trade, and a media delivering such sad, repetitive, and ARRANGED Liberal brainwashing material, the majority of Americans that believe everything they see (i.e. the average Dummycrat) just assumes that Republicans are bad simply because some IGNORANT BITCH on The View tells them pure Liberal Spin... to the average house wife/stay at home mom... this comes as FACT because someone on TV says so.... Hows that for a run on sentence?!

[the eternal]

I wont vote a woman into office, its just me.

I really really really hope you're kidding. Voting for or against someone due to their gender is f%^&ing retarded.

YOU--back to the 19th century

I dont think rudy should be a top choice

Libertarianism policy is like that of a republican with the no touch on the economy standpoint it could really hurt us

and some people like it or not really do depend on that welfare and pretty soon

more people are going to need to be on it with the rate of foreclosures and jobs lost due to lack of a housing market.. which i think will spark a depression its not in the best interest to vote for a party thats going to dismantle social services in a time where we are going to need those services the most

Kucinich's platform includes

Creating a single-payer system of universal health care that provides full coverage for all Americans by passage of the United States National Health Insurance Act.

The immediate, phased withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq; replacing them with an international security force.

Guaranteed quality education for all; including free pre-kindergarten and college for all who want it.

Immediate withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) and North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Repealing the USA PATRIOT Act.

Fostering a world of international cooperation.

Abolishing the death penalty.

Environmental renewal and clean energy.

Preventing the privatization of social security.

Providing full social security benefits at age 65.

Creating a cabinet-level "Department of Peace"

Ratifying the ABM Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol.

Introducing reforms to bring about instant-runoff voting.

Protecting a woman's right to choose while decreasing the number of abortions performed in the U.S.

Ending the War on Drugs.

Legalizing same-sex marriage.

Creating a balance between workers and corporations.

Ending the H-1B and L-1 visa Programs

Restoring rural communities and family farms.

Strengthening gun control.

Everyone is of course entitled to his or her opinion, but I fail to understand where all the Ron Paul support comes from. Some of his ideas are downright scary, to me at least. His advocacy of overturning Roe v. Wade does not sit well with me at all, for one, but I suspect his fellow Republicans are probably largely in agreement with him on that. His inexplicable opposition to birthright citizenship smacks of under-the-radar racism, or at least, fear of the brown people, oh noes. I also don't really think our government can survive without the income tax. People can bitch and moan all they like about taxes, but the fact is that they bitch because they don't like how they are being spent, not because they are being collected at all. No, I'll be staying far away from Ron Paul, I think.

For that matter, I'll be staying far away from the entire Republican party this election cycle. After eight years of Republican misrule, even the uninspired Democratic candidates start to look halfway appealing.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

I don't know who I'm gonna vote for.

From what Ive seen/heard so far though, it seems to me that Hillary's unofficial campaign slogan should be: "Vote for me, I'm a girl!"

I couldn't disagree more.

Sure she played up the gender card.

But it paled in comparison to how much Giuliani played the 9/11 card.

It makes sense for both. It's an angle for both candidates to shore up their base.

Now, that the heat is on them for those alleged ploys, they're trying harder than ever to show that they're the people for everyone (Yeah, right)

His commercials and his campaign is focusing not on 9/11 anymore, but on what he did for NYC and how he can use that model (safer streets, better economic growth) for this country and as for Hillary Clinton.

Have any of you honestly looked at a single poll???

She's waaaayy ahead of the other candidates on the democrat side.

Do you honestly think she'd get there ONLY using the gender card?

Really??

Have any of you guys watched a debate yet, or did this all come from a talking point off redstate.com???

She's very well polished, very moderate, and very conservative in the purest sense---in that she won't take a radical stance on ANYTHING

Just three of the reasons why I hate her.

I don't trust her. She seems too canned.

But there's no way she'd have such widespread appeal if she wasn't connecting with people

I'm always amazed at this board.

In some ways DGN can be very liberal and alternative and everything, (whatever that means)

and then a lot of the political threads are either conservative, apathetic,

or very much along the punch lines of a stand up comic.

ANYWAY--

Ron Paul is nuts.

He doesn't just want to shrink the social safety net.

He wants to cut it down, and put it through a woodchipper.

No taxes

No regulations

No Department of Education.

That all sounds great until we're eating tainted meat, our kids aren't going to school, and Grandma falls over face down into her cats' litter bowl because she no longer gets medicine.

He's against the war. Great!

So is every f$%^ing democrat, and if you really want a measured, slow withdrawal you should actually read what Clinton has to say. She'll take just as long to bring the troops home as Guiliani.

Sure, he argues for even longer waits, but at some point the American people aren't going to take it any longer, so it'll really be no different.

If I was a social conservative and wanted a pure-of-heart well-meaning, no-BS Republican, I'd vote for Huckabee.

Since I DO actually believe in dinosaurs, evolution, and the wonder of science, I can't.

If I was a progressive that wanted a pure of heart democrat that espoused wonderful ideals, I'd support

this man

Damn, that's sexy!

An Obama or an Edwards win in Iowa could blow this thing wide open, and release the stranglehold Clinton has had on the Democratic base.

Just as a Huckabee win could make things interesting for the GOP.

I sure hope it does.

I like many of Edwards views. He has good ideas about health care and workers rights.

He wants to make this society more equitable. I like that he's a trial lawyer. I know there will always be frivolous lawsuits, but for every one of those, there are ten more where a product maker rushed something out knowing the risks and made a calculated decision that profit was worth the few casualties it might cause.

I like that someone fights back for the little guy.

Obama has a very reasoned thoughtfull approach to decision-making that I admire.

You can tell that he labors over his decisions, not for political expediency, but to do the right thing (not necessarily in my view, but hey at least someone has a clear conscience----

I sometimes wonder if Bush was born without one.

But in the end, it seems that people are looking for a strong seasoned leader who takes a measured approach in leaving Iraq, and sadly I think many see that as Clinton.

She's so prepared to the point that every question is just a jumping point for a stump speech.

I want someone who actually listens while they lead.

Eight years of the man with the tin ears is about all I can take.

I just hope we're not in for more of the same.

[nilhil_glory]

that was powerfull

[torn asunder]

this thread is temporarily closed, pending moderator discussions...

[torn asunder]

this thread has been re-opened...

let's *all* try to keep things friendly & respectful, ok? there were/are some good discussions in here, it would be great to see them continue!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I just wanted to point out that her Thighness, Hillary is falling behind in poles...

[Fierce Critter]

I just wanted to point out that her Thighness, Hillary is falling behind in poles...

Now, come on, Gaf. Would you make a physical reference like that about a man running for office?

When is the last time you referred to a male democrat in such terms?

I REALLY hope people are being honest with themselves about whether or not they're choosing a candidate based on gender. And about whether or not they truly can look past physical differences when judging someone's worthiness of office.

I'm seeing a lot of proof that there is validity in the observation that a strong, determined man is viewed just that way - strong and determined, and that a strong and determined woman is viewed as a bitch.

[phee]

I just wanted to point out that her Thighness, Hillary is falling behind in poles...

A little sexist don't you think sir?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I refer to her husband as Slick Willy. I don't like the Clintons. I never have and never will. I don't want the traitors back in office. Yes, I think they are traitors. I think they sold or gave most of our nuclear tech to China. Notice that the latest campaign finance problems they are having, have roots in China... just like the last time they ran.

I think thier program to fund the prison systems in Arkansas is responsible for most cases of Aides in Africa.

you judge for your self.

I think they turned a blind eye to Osama and his ilk and thats why 9/11 happened. Lets bomb another asprin factory.

I hate the Clintons. i don't think they want the best for us, they want the best for Them.

[the eternal]

I just wanted to point out that her Thighness, Hillary is falling behind in poles...

Hey now, you can spew inaccuracies without getting personal!

But, it is getting exciting!

If Obama and Huckabee take Iowa, this race gets a LOT more interesting!

(That said, I expect to hear a lot more low blows to Hillary Clinton in the coming months, she's a big bulls-eye for the GOP. Everytime her name is mentioned, Republicans are required to send $100 to the general election fund.

No Hillary AAAAGH! )

[Homicidalheathen]

I am back to not liking any candidate again. Didn't take much did it. Watched some stuff and found out some things and now I just feel.....there is no hope.

We are seriously thinking of moving out of the country when the kids get done with college. But mostly because of my health benefits situation.