All Non-muslims Are Guilty

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

watch that... and then we can discuss

[Msterbeau]

Discuss what? That the guy's a nut job? I don't think you'll get any dissent on that.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

He may be a nut job.. but he is the top cleric in Great Britian and a great many Muslims follow his lead.

[Shade Everdark]

He may be a nut job.. but he is the top cleric in Great Britian and a great many Muslims follow his lead.

By that logic, I could say that Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians, since a lot of them follow his lead. I'm not yet ready to accede that point, in either direction.

[phee]

By that logic, I could say that Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians, since a lot of them follow his lead. I'm not yet ready to accede that point, in either direction.

Xcellent point

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Pat has said some dumb ass things... never have I seen him advocate killing everyone that was non-Christian.

[phee]

Pat has said some dumb ass things... never have I seen him advocate killing everyone that was non-Christian.

Ok Ann Coulter then (lol)

[ttogreh]

Then you haven't really been paying attention, Gaf.

Let's dance to the same old tune, shall we?

Muslims are not a monolith.

All religions have some history of violence, be it in their history, their sacred texts, or in both.

Life is a spectrum, not a zero-sum Chess Game.

And finally... Turkey, Gaf. Gobble Gobble Gobble.

[Shade Everdark]

Pat has said some dumb ass things... never have I seen him advocate killing everyone that was non-Christian.

No, just calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez, a foreign head of state.

And 'informing' the people of Orlando, Florida, and Dover, Pennsylvania, that God was going to smite them.

Oh, and decreeing that the State Department headquarters should be hit with a nuclear weapon.

[phee]

No, just calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez, a foreign head of state.

And 'informing' the people of Orlando, Florida, and Dover, Pennsylvania, that God was going to smite them.

Oh, and decreeing that the State Department headquarters should be hit with a nuclear weapon.

Exactly... and by this logic ALL Christians must be getting spoken for...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

*sigh*

Fine. I give up.

Sit back and let them take over the world. Watch them kill your children and spouses in the name of Allah.

And then.. while the dull knife is sawing your head off, you can blame it all on some Christian.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You blind hatred off all things Christian sickens me.

You take this hate speech from a Muslim and somehow turn it against Christians.

and dont deny your hate. You show it all the time.

[phee]

You blind hatred off all things Christian sickens me.

You take this hate speech from a Muslim and somehow turn it against Christians.

and dont deny your hate. You show it all the time.

I hate hypocracy...

I am just saying that any one religion is not better or worse then another... and you were in agreement at one point in the other thread when you talked about freedom for ALL religions

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I dont see anty other religion cutting peoples heads off or stoning people to death.

[ttogreh]

You know Gaf, if you are going to PM me, you really should set it so that I can respond. I might be breaking some sort of board etiquette, but I really don't know what to do other than to respond to you publicly.

Well, I suppose I could ask a moderator to send you a PM... Whatever. I'll accept any sanctions this action will bring upon me.

[phee]

I dont see anty other religion cutting peoples heads off or stoning people to death.

We are talking about the link you posted and what he speaks for (him being a powerful muslim), and Shade was making a comparrison to a powerful Christian and what he speaks for...

If we are talking about religious violence current/past/future... perhaps another thread? if thats cool...

[hunhee]

I dont see anty other religion cutting peoples heads off or stoning people to death.

Wow, someone has to check some of their own religious history.

[Shade Everdark]

You blind hatred off all things Christian sickens me.

You take this hate speech from a Muslim and somehow turn it against Christians.

and dont deny your hate. You show it all the time.

Come on now. This just makes you look juvenile, and really reveals your ignorance as to, at the very least, my motives.

And, to be quite honest, I'm not even discussing his ostensible 'hate speech'. I can't, because I can't view YouTube at work. What I am discussing is your apparent desire, as others have pointed out, to lump all Muslims under the same extremist mindset. The irony of this discussion is that you are all too ready to interpret any crackbrained thing any Muslim spiritual leader says as a blanket assertion by the entire population of Muslims--about, what, one billion people? and yet you get very defensive when someone (in this instance, me) points out to you the folly of such thinking by showing you how similar examples of crackbrained things said by Christian leaders might be used to tar the whole Christian community--also on the order of a billion people, if I'm not mistaken.

It's just quite simply fallacious thinking.

I'm going to be very blunt, here, for a moment. I do NOT hate Christianity, as a whole. I do not, as a rule, hate Christians. If I did, I'd have to hate my mother, my father, and most of my relatives. What does bother me to the point of hatred, however, are those who would use the faith of others to huckster their way into power, or would use it to justify intolerance and hatred toward other people for no good goddamned reason. And it doesn't matter what religion a hatemonger or huckster uses, because in the end, they don't care, either. It's a means to an end for them, so this British cleric, the likes of Usama bin Laden, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, etc.--they're all on my list of people I'm not especially happy with.

One final note: your cries of religious hatred and oppression, here, of all places, in not just juvenile, it's really kind of an insult. Come back and cry to us when the VAST majority of the elected officials in this country do NOT profess themselves to be Christian, even if it is just to hope to have a chance in hell of being elected, and I'll be more inclined to take it seriously.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You attitudes tell me that we have already lost this war.

I wont try to warn you anymore. I wont try to show you what you are allowing to happen to the world.

but hey.. you can keep your peice of mind. When they have killed your children. RAped and murderd you wives. Beheaded your sons...

It's all good. Some follower of Christ killed someone a long time ago and that evens it out. and hey Turkey is Secular and that is the icing on your cake..

[phee]

You attitudes tell me that we have already lost this war.

I wont try to warn you anymore. I wont try to show you what you are allowing to happen to the world.

but hey.. you can keep your peice of mind. When they have killed your children. RAped and murderd you wives. Beheaded your sons...

It's all good. Some follower of Christ killed someone a long time ago and that evens it out. and hey Turkey is Secular and that is the icing on your cake..

Dramatic....

But the point being that the above list of foretold atrocities are not exclusive to islam, even today... abortion doctors are shot, mass suicides in the name of Christianity, homosexuals are abused in the name of God... And just so you don't think I am anti-Christian only, Israel levels buildings full of innocents to kill one militant, the Caste system in India keep millions of people dying of malnutrition, and the list goes on....

So the question is... Do we judge the religion (all of them) based on this jaded and spiteful list of horrible things, or do we judge it like any other organization, not by it's name but by it's people... Some Christians start hospitals, give to the poor, and do very selfless things.... some don't, the same can be said for almost any group of people.

I refuse to hate Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, The Campus Crusade For Cthulhu, based on it's extremists... Hate is what this person is trying to inspire, and guess what? It worked! (Just look at how hateful Gaf's posts have been in this thread). So I refuse to hate... I will defend myself, I will be aggressive if need be... but I will not join the ranks of hate as some are so eager to. It is not black and white....

Gaf, if you don't want someone hating all Christians based on the history and statements of the leaders of several Christian movements.... it is extremely hypocritical to hate (and expect others to hate) all of Islam for the same reasons. This makes you the same as the man on the clip.

For the record... I can't think of one person who has ever been killed in the NAME OF Atheism or Agnosticism... Although I can think of systems of government who have been anti religious, and some horrible world leaders have been atheists themselves... The point being that I have never heard anyone say "exterminate them because they believe in God!!!" I have heard people say "exterminate them because they don't believe in MY God!!!"

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You should perhaps read about the people that Stalin targeted.

I base my feeling not just on the extremists. The general Muslim populace may not be holding the knives, but a good portion of them support the people that are.

I remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. I remember the reactions of the people on the street all over the Muslim world.

I've read the Quran. I've read Sharai law.

I've watching the citys being overrun with violent protests by Muslims and infected with Islamic Courts. London, Paris, Berlin...

I watching Muslim's getting special rights here so that we don't "offend Islam"

I listen to thier leaders.. to the Hate they spew towards all that is not Islam. I listen to them speak of taking over the world. Global Calif

I'm sick of seeing my fellow countrymen let it happen. They can't seem to understand just how different the midset is there. They impose thier own view of of some ideal world where everyone can just get along if we just talk enough over the real world. They don't share your values. They don't see the world like you do. They don't have your repsect for Religion or personal beleifs.

Sometimes. Sometimes I wish that they would succed at one of thier plots to attack the US. Just to remind people that we are infact in a war and have been since 1992.

[phee]

You should perhaps read about the people that Stalin targeted.

I base my feeling not just on the extremists. The general Muslim populace may not be holding the knives, but a good portion of them support the people that are.

I remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. I remember the reactions of the people on the street all over the Muslim world.

I've read the Quran. I've read Sharai law.

I've watching the citys being overrun with violent protests by Muslims and infected with Islamic Courts. London, Paris, Berlin...

I watching Muslim's getting special rights here so that we don't "offend Islam"

I listen to thier leaders.. to the Hate they spew towards all that is not Islam. I listen to them speak of taking over the world. Global Calif

I'm sick of seeing my fellow countrymen let it happen. They can't seem to understand just how different the midset is there. They impose thier own view of of some ideal world where everyone can just get along if we just talk enough over the real world. They don't share your values. They don't see the world like you do. They don't have your repsect for Religion or personal beleifs.

Sometimes. Sometimes I wish that they would succed at one of thier plots to attack the US. Just to remind people that we are infact in a war and have been since 1992.

In other words you are saying that "You" are "Better" then "Them"...

[jadnifer]

You blind hatred off all things Christian sickens me.

You take this hate speech from a Muslim and somehow turn it against Christians.

and dont deny your hate. You show it all the time.

I am a Christian. Never have I felt that people here on DGN have hatred toward Christianity. I'm not trying to start a fight here, because I am totally against that, but I have never really felt offended by what someone that may be of a different faith than me has said about mine.

That being said, I don't think anyone has the right to kill anyone, and no one religion in my eyes at least should be saying that if you aren't my religion then you are going to hell.

That is all I have to say about that.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Perhaps.

I do think that I am a better person than someone willing to saw the head off another human.

I think I am better than the people that cheer it.

and the people that somehow want me to try to understand how the murderers feel... are beneath contempt.

Yeah, I am better than them.

Are you saying you are not better than a murderous zealot?

and yes tt, gobble gobble. Islam is eating your favorite Turkey too.

[phee]

Being better then those who do what you listed, sure....

but is that all of Islam? Can you lump the entire religion into that category so easily?