All Non-muslims Are Guilty

[phee]

I am a Christian. Never have I felt that people here on DGN have hatred toward Christianity. I'm not trying to start a fight here, because I am totally against that, but I have never really felt offended by what someone that may be of a different faith than me has said about mine.

That being said, I don't think anyone has the right to kill anyone, and no one religion in my eyes at least should be saying that if you aren't my religion then you are going to hell.

That is all I have to say about that.

I love you too

[ttogreh]

You see, what is going on here, is the logical fallacy known as the "excluded middle" or "False Dilemma". Gaf is asserting that since Shade Everdark, Msterbeau, Phee, Hunhee, and myself do not agree that a... I am paraphrasing here... coming storm of Islamic extremists will overtake the minds and actions of the majority of Muslims to form a world wide caliphate that will put to death all non-Muslims... that they and myself are ignoring the very real dangers of Islamic extremism and the fragility that is inherent in the Islamic world.

It simply is quite laughable when one looks at Gaf's arguments critically. He starts with a fact. He then slathers on unfounded assertions, prejudices, and ad hominems (reminding people of the violent history of Christianity and comparing Pat Robertson's rather atrocious statements to the atrocious statements of a Muslim Cleric in London are NOT hateful acts... the ad hominem in question, if anyone is wondering), to create a big ball of preposterousness... and then he is amazed that no one agrees with him.

I knew what he was, weeks ago. I was told not to point out what he was, so I stopped.

I can't help it if the man exposes what he is for everyone to read for themselves, of his own volition.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You people keep focusing on what Christians did hundreds of years ago. Somehow, what Christians did way back when justifies what is done in the name of Islam today. I don't buy that mindset. Every time someone brings up the Evil done in the name of Islam, you people throw up something Christians did a long time ago. I don;t see Christians doing the evil that Islam is doing right now, all over the world.

and tt, as low as my opinion is of you, I would never kill you or bring you great harm. When Islam over takes Detroit, people like you are going to be the first to die.

[phee]

Heh... it feels like I am at work, I was referred to as "you people"

And Gaf, no one here is talking about justification... we are just stating that it is a case of "the pot calling the kettle black".... Both types of behavior are unacceptable... one does not make one more acceptable.

You sound as extremist as the people you are speaking out against Gaf.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

OK, so your not justifying anything... you are also not doing anything to get rid of the problem. I don't see how bringing up what was done in the name of Christ 400 years ago helps anything.

Why can't we just talk about the evils that Islamic extremists are doing RIGHT NOW, without having to compare it to Christians of days gone by?

You think so? Where did I advocate killing anyone? When did I try to justify killing innocents?

[ttogreh]

... And pushing the irrelevant Christian angle is what is known as a "straw man" logical fallacy. Asking when he advocated killing innocents...

Please don't get me started.

Gaf... People can read everything you have said about this subject on here, dating all the way back to the 18th of August, 2006. Do you really want to open that door? Do you really want to see your words... IN CONTEXT... thrown right back at you?

It may look like I am just being a smug asshole, because... let's face it... nine times out of ten, I AM a smug asshole. However, Gaf, I am telling you right now... this is a dangerous door you are trying to open.

[Der Nister]

"God himself will lead them, for they will be doing His work. There will be absolution and remission of sins for all who die in the service of Christ. Here they are poor and miserable sinners; there they will be rich and happy. Let none hesitate; they must march next summer. God wills it! 

"Deus vult! (God wills it) became the battle cry of the Crusader. 

"The day after Urban's speech, the Council formally granted all the privileges and protections Urban had promised. The red cross was taken as the official sign of the pilgrims, and Bishop Adhemar of Le Puy was chosen as papal legate and the spiritual leader of the expedition."2 

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view. Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099: 


Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.

JUst a little history reminder about the past Christianity......I have some very "faithful" christians in my family that will argue that christians killing in the name of god or jesus is well, just a little boo boo.

What I will say on the other hand is it is not ok to kill in the name of god and holy fuck wouldn't you know it - god (and religeon) are the biggest fricking reasons why this shit (most wars thank you) are still going on.

If you want, read some of the article here's the link.History??

I don't care if people want to attend church - whatever - I just wish people would stop pretending to be of god (no matter whos god) while having anger/hatred/spite/malice/ect....in their hearts.

It sickens me - and I'm not blasting anyone just saying how I feel.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You might want to go back to 2002, thats when I joined. If I in anyway respected you as a person, I might just feel some hint of fear by your threat.

Nevermind. Keep your delusions. Everything the Muslims do is AOFUCKINGK. Why, because some Christian did something bad a long time ago.

Lets face it. Everything in the world that is bad.. is clearly the fault of Christ and his followers. Muslims are a peace loving people that never kill anyone out of choice... Christians force them to do it.

Christians are really behind 9/11.

It was Christians hacking the people to bits in Dafur.

The proof is in Turkey. It's secular and that excuses everything and puts the blame on Christians.

[Rev.Reverence]

I will start by quoting 'The Beatles', "...all ya' need is Love..."

O.K. that's enough boys, let's not be so inflamed!

ALL the prophets agree, in LOVING, Divinity, and Humanity, for the truth is plain to see.

So some dude more interested in corporeal power than 'God's Work', comes along and misinterprets a passage, or two and tryes to kill everyone else.

Happens ALL the time...

..to all sorts of religious groups.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I will start by quoting 'The Beatles', "...all ya' need is Love..."

O.K. that's enough boys, let's not be so inflamed!

ALL the prophets agree, in LOVING, Divinity, and Humanity, for the truth is plain to see.

So some dude more interested in corporeal power than 'God's Work', comes along and misinterprets a passage, or two and tryes to kill everyone else.

Happens ALL the time...

..to all sorts of religious groups.

um... Read the Quran. Mohamad was not loving toward non-Muslims nor did he preach it.

[Rev.Reverence]

um... Read the Quran. Mohamad was not loving toward non-Muslims nor did he preach it.

Well, logic dictates, there were no Muslims in that time.

Am I to understand, that you are in possession of Mohamed's actual writing?

In addition to being able to read it?

[phee]

You might want to go back to 2002, thats when I joined. If I in anyway respected you as a person, I might just feel some hint of fear by your threat.

Nevermind. Keep your delusions. Everything the Muslims do is AOFUCKINGK. Why, because some Christian did something bad a long time ago.

Lets face it. Everything in the world that is bad.. is clearly the fault of Christ and his followers. Muslims are a peace loving people that never kill anyone out of choice... Christians force them to do it.

Christians are really behind 9/11.

It was Christians hacking the people to bits in Dafur.

The proof is in Turkey. It's secular and that excuses everything and puts the blame on Christians.

Where are you getting this from Gaf?

Where has anyone claimed that Muslims are peace loving people that never kill anyone out of choice and that Christians force them to do it? Those are your words....

I am saying that as a whole, most missionary (and a few non-missionary) religions are guilty of causing and fanning the flames of hatred and violence.

You want a quote from a "popular Christian figure" that advocates killing in more of a current events sense? OK here:

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.

-Ann Coulter

And this is someone you referred to as "So friggen cool" in an earlier thread.

Gaf... there are plenty of places on the internet that are better suited to spreading the words of hate/religious intolerance/bigotry. I don't think you are going to find many converts here to follow your cause... the more you speak here the more you seem just like the person who you are advocating us to fight.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well, logic dictates, there were no Muslims in that time.

Am I to understand, that you are in possession of Mohamed's actual writing?

In addition to being able to read it?

Yes, the Quran. it was written by Mohamad as dictated by Allah. Or so they claim. They being Muslims.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Phee...

All I did was show a video of one of the current high ranking Muslim leaders and his hate speach.

I then ask to discuss what he said.

I got the history of Christians, Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter thown in my face. and ofcourse, the usual attacks on my charactor by tt. followed by attacks on my charactor by everyone else.

I wasn't trying to do anything but make people aware of what was going on out there. You, Shade and tt are the ones that shaped the conversation.

I'm not spreading hate/religious intolerance/bigotry, you and shade are.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

lets see... what have I been called so far inthis thread by mods...

juvenile

ignorant

extremist

I'm feeling the love

[phee]

Phee...

All I did was show a video of one of the current high ranking Muslim leaders and his hate speach.

I then ask to discuss what he said.

I got the history of Christians, Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter thown in my face. and ofcourse, the usual attacks on my charactor by tt. followed by attacks on my charactor by everyone else.

I wasn't trying to do anything but make people aware of what was going on out there. You, Shade and tt are the ones that shaped the conversation.

I'm not spreading hate/religious intolerance/bigotry, you and shade are.

Sorry I must have misunderstood this:

*sigh*

Fine. I give up.

Sit back and let them take over the world. Watch them kill your children and spouses in the name of Allah.

And then.. while the dull knife is sawing your head off, you can blame it all on some Christian.

And this:

I dont see anty other religion cutting peoples heads off or stoning people to death.

And this:

You attitudes tell me that we have already lost this war.

I wont try to warn you anymore. I wont try to show you what you are allowing to happen to the world.

but hey.. you can keep your peice of mind. When they have killed your children. RAped and murderd you wives. Beheaded your sons...

It's all good. Some follower of Christ killed someone a long time ago and that evens it out. and hey Turkey is Secular and that is the icing on your cake..

But this is your way of spreading tolerance and peace I guess...

And this is me spreading intolerance:

So the question is... Do we judge the religion (all of them) based on this jaded and spiteful list of horrible things, or do we judge it like any other organization, not by it's name but by it's people... Some Christians start hospitals, give to the poor, and do very selfless things.... some don't, the same can be said for almost any group of people.

I refuse to hate Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, The Campus Crusade For Cthulhu, based on it's extremists... Hate is what this person is trying to inspire, and guess what? It worked! (Just look at how hateful Gaf's posts have been in this thread). So I refuse to hate... I will defend myself, I will be aggressive if need be... but I will not join the ranks of hate as some are so eager to. It is not black and white....

You have a confusing way of trying to get your points across.

[phee]

lets see... what have I been called so far inthis thread by mods...

juvenile

ignorant

extremist

I'm feeling the love

And spreading it as well I see.

[Rev.Reverence]

I have found, in my studies, that THEY, (so called 'religious' leaders) are ALWAYS changing shit around.

Look at it this way, there are sect's of Islam, that think 'KILLING IS ABROGATE'.

'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' Christian, and Judaic

'Do as thou Wilt, an' Harm Ye None.' Wicca

'Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will.' ThELEMA

'Affect not another on the way...' Tao

IT GOES ON.....

[Steven]

Well, logic dictates, there were no Muslims in that time.

Am I to understand, that you are in possession of Mohamed's actual writing?

In addition to being able to read it?

oh God lets not go back to this strain of logic again.....non of us are in posession of anythign actually actual, lets concede that and move along....

...and while doing so you may want to apply that to ancient literature, historical manuscripts, etc etc etc.

[torn asunder]

nobody is saying that, since x-tians did it before, that it's ok for muslims to kill now. what i think they're saying is that neither religion is innocent. sure, x-tianity is peaceful currently, and *some* muslims are not, but that doesn't mean they need to be eradicated - in time, they, too, might "convert" to more peaceful ways. on the other hand, you seem to be advocating that x-tians go on the warpath and eliminate muslims, which is the precise reason you want to get rid of them... so if we did, we would have to kill ourselves next!?

[torn asunder]

oh God lets not go back to this strain of logic again.....non of us are in posession of anythign actually actual, lets concede that and move along....

...and while doing so you may want to apply that to ancient literature, historical manuscripts, etc etc etc.

if you can do it, they can do it...

[Rev.Reverence]

oh God lets not go back to this strain of logic again.....non of us are in posession of anythign actually actual, lets concede that and move along....

...and while doing so you may want to apply that to ancient literature, historical manuscripts, etc etc etc.

do you read?

[Rev.Reverence]

i said people mistranslate things, allthe time, on purpouse.

[Rev.Reverence]

i was told i was WRONG.

[Rev.Reverence]

Now what's your real problem DUDE>