Iran

[SaGa]

basicly what is all of your opinions on iran and there threats and there politics, missile tests, threatening to shut down the strait of hormaz, which could make 10$ a gallon here a reality.

Opinions?

[Msterbeau]

We should care about Iran. Anyone trying to get the nuclear bomb should concern the whole world.

We should still strap Bush to a bomb.

[Hellion]

And they ran,they ran so far awayfuck em anyway.may we also add all members of OPEC,the speculatorsBush and his cronies,to the bomb idea.That country is really f@€ked up,IMO,and a threat to the world

[CandyQuackenbush]

I think we should all worry about Iran. They are just as big of a threat to us as North Korea and Iraq.

Yes, they have control of oil right now, but with the hopeful view of State Side drilling, down the line, we probably wouldn't even have to deal with that side of the world.

I don't see why you wouldn't think it to be a threat.

[Rayne]

basicly what is all of your opinions on iran and there threats and there politics, missile tests, threatening to shut down the strait of hormaz, which could make 10$ a gallon here a reality.

Yeah, it's a threat, but pretty much every other country with any kind of resource or money is.

[headlessgoth]

A radical middle eastern country is threating a nuclear attack and raising gas prices to make our situation more miserable? i say strap bush to a bomb and to quote hillary clinton obliterate them

[Goth Brooks]

Since I'm tired, I'll piss into the political wading pool.

Iraq was never a threat to us, and China is a far larger threat than N Korea could ever be. As for Iran, let Israel keep them in line. They've done a great job keeping the muslim nations in line so far.

[SaGa]

that is true, amarica has been sucking isreals cock for some time. so they are well prepared for any missles coming there way.

but in the end, its all about that stupid dome isnt it

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It's a matter of time be Iran launches their missiles at Israel and shuts down the Straights of Hormuz.

It wont last long though. Their air force is mostly made of ancient soviet Sukhois they have retrofitted with newer tech, old MIGs and very old F1s they stole from Iraq during the first Gulf War.

We have two Battle Carrier Groups in the area. That means we can devastate thier whole cost line in a matter of a few days. We also have standing armys on two of thier borders.

It will be a huge mess that the Iran we know will not recover from.

[machine]

(I know I said I was done because of the censorship of this 'rebellious' forum, but I had to say one thing after reading the first few)

It is not only illegal, but just a pretty bad idea other wise to suggest or support the death of the President. I doubt anyone that monitors this stuff is wasting their time on a goth board, but I am sure this sort if thing would get someone in trouble.

Topically, of course we should worry about Iran and confront them on their nuclear ambitions. I would rather Israel take the lead, and we can play clean up if thing go wrong. I am confident we will not invade Iran. We may work with Israel on airstrike, but I highly doubt you will see American tanks/infantry on the streets of Tehran.

The idea of having American Battle Groups loaded with fighters/bombers/Marines in your local waters usually makes countries think twice.

We need to drill at home to get off our foreign dependency.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Iran is definitely an issue. We tend to want to simplify things, especially issues that seem "distant" from our everyday lives but aggression is a bad thing to be left unchecked. And yeah there definitely is plenty of aggression going on in the world that is going on in places that don't have oil and aren't right next to our own interests so we tend to ignore them. We don't have resources to get involved (even if we wanted to) in all of it. So unfortunately we have to pick the "enemies" that are intertwined with our Sociopolitical/Economic interests first.

We could try to place blame for whats going on , and heck why not, but it should be more about how to resolve or at least try to resolve issues in one way or another rather than thinking we can't do anything or worse yet, just do nothing and point fingers.

We cant posture against Iran the way we could have in years past to get them to shape up and expect to maintain the few friends we have left. Its an irritating situation, but one we made ourselves. Hopefully they'll do something politically really stupid without killing anyone and make it acceptable for us to act in some way without lowering our standing in the world even lower than it currently is (for whatever reasons) Most countries hold their noses when they trade with us and would rather not.

If we keep down this same "do whatever we want, screw world opinion." they'll eventually stop holding their noses and stop trading even more than they already have. Like it or not the US is not a self sufficient island, we live in the country called Earth not just the part of it called the USA.. even though I prefer this part of the Earth more than the others.

[Rev.Reverence]

Yes Troy...I definitely agree with you on this. Iran should be looked at as an issue we will eventualy have to deal with, as Gaf pointed out. A threat...I would not go so far as to call them a threat...even if they were...that would let them know we were slipping. Instead, I propose that IF/WHEN Iran becomes a threat, flatten it and turn it to glass.

THEY won't listen to me, & this is not how it'll be handled; I'm sure.

[Goth Brooks]

The interesting thing about Iran is an article I read about it back after we had invaded Afghanistan but before Iraq.

It was about how the younger generation of Iran absolutely loved America, loved it's ideals and was in general more "american than america" in their thinking. They also did not feel as much enmity towards Israel as most other muslims their age in other nations. I took it to be propaganda until I read the author was an Israeli Jew.

I feel that our current stance towards Iran is only going to sour their feelings (if it hasn't in the past few years the government's been badmouthing them) irreversibly. Instead our government should be supporting these "radicals" and hoping that they can move away from a nation governed by religious law.

Either way, let Israel worry about Iran, pull out of Iraq, and dump everyone in Afghanistan where we belong.

If it's true Bin Laden is in hiding in Pakistan now, I fully support invading them if the government won't allow us in to look.

[Rev.Reverence]

The interesting thing about Iran is an article I read about it back after we had invaded Afghanistan but before Iraq.

It was about how the younger generation of Iran absolutely loved America, loved it's ideals and was in general more "american than america" in their thinking. They also did not feel as much enmity towards Israel as most other muslims their age in other nations. I took it to be propaganda until I read the author was an Israeli Jew.

I feel that our current stance towards Iran is only going to sour their feelings (if it hasn't in the past few years the government's been badmouthing them) irreversibly. Instead our government should be supporting these "radicals" and hoping that they can move away from a nation governed by religious law.

Either way, let Israel worry about Iran, pull out of Iraq, and dump everyone in Afghanistan where we belong.

If it's true Bin Laden is in hiding in Pakistan now, I fully support invading them if the government won't allow us in to look.

I think maybe our Government has a sour taste from helping out 'rebel factions' in the past...

..I did not know that was the case, with the younger gens...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The interesting thing about Iran is an article I read about it back after we had invaded Afghanistan but before Iraq.

It was about how the younger generation of Iran absolutely loved America, loved it's ideals and was in general more "american than america" in their thinking. They also did not feel as much enmity towards Israel as most other muslims their age in other nations. I took it to be propaganda until I read the author was an Israeli Jew.

I feel that our current stance towards Iran is only going to sour their feelings (if it hasn't in the past few years the government's been badmouthing them) irreversibly. Instead our government should be supporting these "radicals" and hoping that they can move away from a nation governed by religious law.

Either way, let Israel worry about Iran, pull out of Iraq, and dump everyone in Afghanistan where we belong.

If it's true Bin Laden is in hiding in Pakistan now, I fully support invading them if the government won't allow us in to look.

So, you support invading Pakistan.. even though Pakistan is an ally?

BTW.. we have been supporting the opposition movement in Iran for many years.

[machine]

Yes Troy...I definitely agree with you on this. Iran should be looked at as an issue we will eventualy have to deal with, as Gaf pointed out. A threat...I would not go so far as to call them a threat...even if they were...that would let them know we were slipping. Instead, I propose that IF/WHEN Iran becomes a threat, flatten it and turn it to glass.

THEY won't listen to me, & this is not how it'll be handled; I'm sure.

When dealing with a terror supporting country with nuclear ambitions, you confront and take care of the problem before it becomes a threat.

And as far as I am concerned... and as far as France, England, Russia, China, Italy, and Spain is concerned (but who are they anyway), Iran is a HUGE threat already.

Using nukes in Iran would mean no oil for 40+ years.

[peelingchrome]

I agree that Iran is an issue, but it's completely our fault. We have no business being there in the first place. I learned a few facts the other day that made me rethink a lot of things. Just a few pertinent details:

-America has troops in over 130 countries, including over 64,000 troops in Germany alone

-America is slated to spend almost $1TRILLION on our overseas military presence alone next year

-Every middle eastern terrorist group has used OUR PRESENCE in their country as the PRIMARY motivating factor to fuel their extremist actions

If us being over there is the reason they are attacking us in the first place, doesn't it make sense that we just bring our military men and women home? It would also be nice to put that money into reducing our rediculous national debt, too. I'm all for keeping America safe. I'm an American, and damn patriotic. But if being over there is compromising our safety, then why stay there? Yeah, they'll propagandize the situation and say "Look at them run, they're weak, let's attack!" and all their support will be gone because the masses just want us out, not dead. With our troops at home we'll be better prepared to defend our home. And for crying out loud, stop with the embargoes! What we do with those is piss off people. If I were to walk around in downtown Detroit and in every business with a (insert nationality here) owner and tell them that I won't do business with them because of what country they are from, I'd probably get shot within a day or two. Yet America seems to think it can do that on a global scale and suffer no repercussions. WTF is our problem? We want the freedom to run our country the way we want. Why don't we grant that freedom to other countries and LET THEM BE?

I'd like to conclude with this: I don't want to start a flame war. The only way we can improve our country is through open and honest debate.

[know_buddy_kares]

this thread makes me rage...

I know there was another thread on here somewhere where I explained exactly why Iran is NOT A NUCLEAR THREAT.

But people have selective hearing. peelingchrome, thankyou for your recent post on this.

It's good to see that at least someone is smarter than the average human.

Sadly though, this thread in my opinion is a filthy breeding ground for trolls. Therefore I have nothing of value to add into this thread as it will only feed the trolls.

[peelingchrome]

Like I said, KBK, I'd rather have open debate. I may be completely wrong, but I don't believe that right now. If someone is able to convince me otherwise through logic and evidence than I'll be grateful for the enlightenment. NOTHING is more powerful than knowledge. If we, as a people, can come to some kind of consensus on what should happen in our country then things can change a lot faster. I know that many people are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. Let's get this crap worked out together!

[Oh_My_Goth]

Oil is bad.....

[know_buddy_kares]

Like I said, KBK, I'd rather have open debate. I may be completely wrong, but I don't believe that right now. If someone is able to convince me otherwise through logic and evidence than I'll be grateful for the enlightenment. NOTHING is more powerful than knowledge. If we, as a people, can come to some kind of consensus on what should happen in our country then things can change a lot faster. I know that many people are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. Let's get this crap worked out together!

Trust me man, I've done heavy research on what's going on out there as that's where I'm about to be (Iraq) for a whole bloody year. Though I'm doing it cuz i needed the fuckin money, something that hazardous to my life.. well I'm going to make damn sure what's going on and what I'm getting myself into. Nothing against you, but I've said my peice on issues like this well before.. then the thread get's lost over time, and eventually the same issue is brought up yet again.. with the same people spouting the same armchair general rants like before..

One question that I keep asking myself.. They don't want us there, most of us don't want to be there, and the civilian side of things seem that american citizens are tired of this shit. So, what is it going to take for the american government to finally listen to it's citizens and start functioning like a normal government again.

?

What is it going to take? A nationwide riot? Some boycott that's unrealistic? A coupe de grace? People to actually start voting smartly with their wallets instead of going th Wallmart?

The problem with threads like this, is they always focus on a problem, and most all our problems from war, to jobs, to prices, and everything, are all directly effected by one another.. seems you can't focus on just one problem without having to take all the rest of our problems into consideration as well.

As for me, though, if I find myself in Iran ever.. that will be personal proof that the goverment and the people of america are beond hope of ever making any intelligent choices or standing up to shit they know is wrong.

[Hellion]

What better place to drop a fuel air bomb.

[peelingchrome]

Trust me man, I've done heavy research on what's going on out there as that's where I'm about to be (Iraq) for a whole bloody year. Though I'm doing it cuz i needed the fuckin money, something that hazardous to my life.. well I'm going to make damn sure what's going on and what I'm getting myself into. Nothing against you, but I've said my peice on issues like this well before.. then the thread get's lost over time, and eventually the same issue is brought up yet again.. with the same people spouting the same armchair general rants like before..

One question that I keep asking myself.. They don't want us there, most of us don't want to be there, and the civilian side of things seem that american citizens are tired of this shit. So, what is it going to take for the american government to finally listen to it's citizens and start functioning like a normal government again.

?

What is it going to take? A nationwide riot? Some boycott that's unrealistic? A coupe de grace? People to actually start voting smartly with their wallets instead of going th Wallmart?

The problem with threads like this, is they always focus on a problem, and most all our problems from war, to jobs, to prices, and everything, are all directly effected by one another.. seems you can't focus on just one problem without having to take all the rest of our problems into consideration as well.

As for me, though, if I find myself in Iran ever.. that will be personal proof that the goverment and the people of america are beond hope of ever making any intelligent choices or standing up to shit they know is wrong.

I'd like to say that I agree with most of what you say. Truely.

That being said, I feel that people still need to talk. Let's get everyone throwing ideas around, not just about one minor problem or another, but about the whole damn thing. In my personal opinion, most of the government is just plain screwed up. I feel that the more people talk about the major issues, not just which country did this or what percentage interest rates are at or whatever, the more people will start to see a broader picture.

I don't know a lot. I want to learn. What if everyone does a bit of research and then adds their findings and opinions of their findings to the public? Wouldn't that help? This may be a forum dedicated to a subculture, and therefore have a relatively small audience, but people know people. What if by really trying to work this stuff out for ourselves we can come to a peaceful and effective solution to the major complaints that the majority of this country has?

I'm not a fanatic, nor am I trying to incite fanaticism. I'm merely trying to get people to open their eyes and their minds. I know what I see and think. What else is out there?

-And I don't think we should be dropping FAEs or nukes or anything anywhere. Lets mind the business of our own screwed up country and let others handle theirs. Just my personal opinion.

[Goth Brooks]

So, you support invading Pakistan.. even though Pakistan is an ally?

BTW.. we have been supporting the opposition movement in Iran for many years.

You consider a government that may be allowing Bin Laden to hide in it's country an ally?

And yes, the whole point of invading Afghanistan was to capture and try Bin Laden. If he's hiding in Pakistan and they won't allow us to enter on the premise of capturing him, then we should do so by force.

[peelingchrome]

You consider a government that may be allowing Bin Laden to hide in it's country an ally?

And yes, the whole point of invading Afghanistan was to capture and try Bin Laden. If he's hiding in Pakistan and they won't allow us to enter on the premise of capturing him, then we should do so by force.

But if Bin Laden's main complaint against us is our presence (and the effects of our presence) in whatever he calls his country, why should we go get him? Wouldn't that just fuel his fire?